2015 NBA Finals: Warriors vs Cavs

[Sauru]

I agree.

Kinda like this vid, Pierce entirely caused a contact to draw a foul. Otherwise a very splendid block.

phpBB [video]

you will never see me argue that piece does not jump into defenders. it made me sick watching it all the time. i wish stuff like that would be called as an offensive foul to stop players from doing it

[NovU]

Reggie Miller was great at it. I enjoyed watching him.

That said, that is irrelevant to Klay Thompson's case with Ariza. Ariza was clearly wrong in trespassing Thompson's path from blindside. It's not even good defense but thuggery gamble. You don't mindlessly jump into someone's rightful path and blame offensive players for intentionally taking the hit which is a good play by the book.

That's what really separates Kawhi and Green from those thuggy plays, they don't need to play dirty and risky(to others) to play superb defense.

[koberulz]

I agree.

Kinda like this vid, Pierce entirely caused a contact to draw a foul. Otherwise a very splendid block.

phpBB [video]

That is a blatant foul.

So it was also Ariza's fault that Curry fell for his shot fake? Okay.

Is this the same person who defended Dellavedova even though he causes havoc on the court?

I was using sarcasm to mock those who used 'but it happened more than once in a small span of games' to argue that Delly was a dirty player.

Perhaps symptoms presented themselves after the game, requiring further evaluation and ruling him out pending him passing those tests. Alternatively, and as was noted on commentary when Curry was running up and down in preparation to return to the court after his fall, players want to play and compete, and can't always be trusted to be 100% truthful about how they're feeling ("Sure doc, I'm fine"). Perhaps Thompson insisted he was fine, gutted it out, but was indeed suffering concussion symptoms which were then confirmed after the game.

Right, but the commentators said the concussion protocol wasn't even triggered. If the concussion protocol can be avoided by a player saying they feel fine, there's no point in even having it. As has been pointed out both here and elsewhere, it's possible to either lie during the testing and falsely pass, or have a concussion and be asymptomatic, and there's not really anything you can do about that. But the protocol should at least have been triggered. It's not like nobody knew there was even a problem, as he got the concussion on some freak thing that didn't seem at all bad at the time. He took a knee to the head and had to be taken off the floor and stitched up.

[Sauru]

Reggie Miller was great at it. I enjoyed watching him.

That said, that is irrelevant to Klay Thompson's case with Ariza. Ariza was clearly wrong in trespassing Thompson's path from blindside. It's not even good defense but thuggery gamble. You don't mindlessly jump into someone's rightful path and blame offensive players for intentionally taking the hit which is a good play by the book.

That's what really separates Kawhi and Green from those thuggy plays, they don't need to play dirty and risky(to others) to play superb defense.

klay pumped faked, ariza bought it, klay leaned into the knee. if klay does not step into ariza then trevor goes flying by and klay is open to shoot or pass. what klay did was what most players do now, make the guy jump then step into him and hope to get to the line.

[Andrew]

Curry being the first All-NBA First Team member to face all four other All-NBA First Team members in the same postseason is definitely an interesting fact. It's amazing that it hasn't happened before now, though it does require everything to line up nicely in terms of player performance, the distribution of stars around the league, seedings, and Playoff results. If nothing else, players like Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird - multi-time All-NBA First Team members who had several deep Playoff runs - had a teammate in the All-NBA First Team a few times, and thus could at most only face three other First Team members.

Right, but the commentators said the concussion protocol wasn't even triggered. If the concussion protocol can be avoided by a player saying they feel fine, there's no point in even having it. As has been pointed out both here and elsewhere, it's possible to either lie during the testing and falsely pass, or have a concussion and be asymptomatic, and there's not really anything you can do about that. But the protocol should at least have been triggered. It's not like nobody knew there was even a problem, as he got the concussion on some freak thing that didn't seem at all bad at the time. He took a knee to the head and had to be taken off the floor and stitched up.

Assuming the commentators didn't make a mistake there...yeah, it's strange. We can only speculate, and if there does need to be a better policy in place, then by all means, it should be adopted for the well-being of the players.

Like I said though, what we do know is that he does have a concussion and may or may not be cleared to play, which is a real shame. It's been a tough postseason as far as injuries are concerned.

[mp3]

I dirty play doesn't mean a dirty player.

[NovU]

I have no problem with anyone biting on the fake. Lots do. But only a few go for full force knee/foot kick dangerously close to the on ball player. That is simply not a nice basketball play. He could have anticipated and read or found other ways to contend a shot if he was anything of truly a great defensive caliber player like 2 excellent Greens in this league, CP3, or Kawhi. Some rely heavily on aggressiveness on defense and that was kind of aggressiveness that could trigger such notion. Ariza in that particular play had no regards to Klay's next moves and ruthlessly challenged him.

Instead of what Klay's counter move could have been, I rather about talk ruthlessness of that particular Ariza's defensive play. If all defenders in this league did that consistently in such situation, knee kick and soccer kick would be flying everywhere as non-flagrant play. Why should offensive player become afraid of making moves within his rights because of ruthlessness of defenders?

People need to stop victimizing Ariza. This was entirely different play from Reggie Miller jumping into an innocent defender for free shots.

[koberulz]

Ariza raised his knee because that's how jumping works.

[Sauru]

trust me i am no ariza fan however i just cant call that play dirty since klay initiated all the contact. the knee didnt have to be raised that high but he did not try to knee klay in the head

[NovU]

Ariza raised his knee because that's how jumping into a player works.

Fixed.

[koberulz]

No.

[NovU]

trust me i am no ariza fan however i just cant call that play dirty since klay initiated all the contact. the knee didnt have to be raised that high but he did not try to knee klay in the head

We will never know about his true intention but it was certainly an aggressive play.


You might wanna check out how normally NBA defenders close in and try to challenge the shooters. You see them usually with upper body leaning forward and arm up in the air, definitely not knee forward while turning knee towards a victim.




Actually forget the close up and slow mo actually but look at the angle where Ariza came from and speed of the play.

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Do you any of dummies seriously believe Klay didn't have the right of way and it was a split second decision to drive in? Ariza had no business being in the air like an idiot. Who cares what Klay did.

No.

You are at the wrong place. This isn't MMA forum.

[mp3]

So much talk about this one play by Ariza.

Some of you guys would of had a field day watching then posting on some of the plays I saw in the late 80's early 90's in the playoffs when you could put your hands on the offensive player and we had the "no layup rule" lol

[Sauru]

ariza bit on the fake. the entire purpose of a fake is to get the guy in the air. klay just stepped into him. if klay waited a second ariza would of went flying by and klay would have been able to drive to the hoop. looking at it in normal speed i am even more convinced that this was all from klay leaning in and ariza was just trying not to get bridged.

[Kevin]

How about we just agree to this:

Thompson faked to shoot the ball, Ariza bit the fake, Thompson wanted Ariza to commit a foul = Concussion

just my opinion.

[NovU]

ariza bit on the fake. the entire purpose of a fake is to get the guy in the air. klay just stepped into him. if klay waited a second ariza would of went flying by and klay would have been able to drive to the hoop. looking at it in normal speed i am even more convinced that this was all from klay leaning in and ariza was just trying not to get bridged.

I was saying Ariza's intention matter not because it's his fault. This is clearly a foul by Ariza and is responsible for the incident.

What if I hit your car on highway trying to cut in and say your shouldn't have leaned into my car. Would that be logical?
This is same shit. You talking victim should have done this and that, when you should be saying Ariza should have done this and that, to avoid foul.

[Stress Fracture]

So it was also Ariza's fault that Curry fell for his shot fake? Okay.

Is this the same person who defended Dellavedova even though he causes havoc on the court?

I was using sarcasm to mock those who used 'but it happened more than once in a small span of games' to argue that Delly was a dirty player.

Damn, you got us to that.

Anyways, I don't get it why NovU's making this a very big deal.

[[Q]]

Perhaps symptoms presented themselves after the game, requiring further evaluation and ruling him out pending him passing those tests. Alternatively, and as was noted on commentary when Curry was running up and down in preparation to return to the court after his fall, players want to play and compete, and can't always be trusted to be 100% truthful about how they're feeling ("Sure doc, I'm fine"). Perhaps Thompson insisted he was fine, gutted it out, but was indeed suffering concussion symptoms which were then confirmed after the game.

Bottom line, he's suffering a concussion, and is questionable to return in time for Game 1. A huge blow for him, and the Warriors.

I've had a mild concussion before after getting elbowed in the cheek defending a fast break. I saw stars but after a few minutes I felt fine. I was able to continue playing. It wasn't until later that night/ the next day when I felt nauseated

[Sauru]

ariza bit on the fake. the entire purpose of a fake is to get the guy in the air. klay just stepped into him. if klay waited a second ariza would of went flying by and klay would have been able to drive to the hoop. looking at it in normal speed i am even more convinced that this was all from klay leaning in and ariza was just trying not to get bridged.

I was saying Ariza's intention matter not because it's his fault. This is clearly a foul by Ariza and is responsible for the incident.

What if I hit your car on highway trying to cut in and say your shouldn't have leaned into my car. Would that be logical?
This is same shit. You talking victim should have done this and that, when you should be saying Ariza should have done this and that, to avoid foul.

a driving accident and a foul are not the same thing but if you want to use that analogy then if you were merging and i crossed the line into your lane then yes it would be my fault. if you crossed the lane then it would be your fault. the contact on that foul was 100% committed by ariza. if klay did not step forward into ariza then there is no contact. i hate hate hate hate hate that the nba calls fouls on the defense when its the offensive player who forces the contact

[NovU]

When I was a kid and saw Reggie Miller was doing it, I thought IT WAS FREAKING AWESOME! I'd mimic his plays and intentionally jump into a defender in air to draw shooting foul (but of course there wasn't no free throws in street ball). But sometimes ignorant kids screamed that it wasn't foul because I created contact. Still to this day, I do it, I tend to use a lot of faints and get guys off the ground. I'd create space using my body by making a contact when defender come down to ground then I shoot the fade away right away (AND ONE PLAY!!!).

Now days Reggie Miller rule is implemented and don't award as many calls on contact by shooter but I see residue here and there, some players just naturally do it out of habit. lol. But I believe Klay case was different. I say offensive players should be protected of his path to the rim and should not be discouraged to do so by any means.

[Andrew]

Some more information on the situation with Thompson (emphasis is mine):

Late in a game that was supposed to be the happiest of his life, Golden State Warriors guard Klay Thompson leaned into an antsy Trevor Ariza to try and draw a shooting foul. Instead of hearing a whistle, a knee collided into his head, lacerating the All-Star's ear and giving him a concussion.

The first injury was evident right away, when Thompson's ear started to bleed on national television. But the concussion -- far more serious and harder to detect -- is another story. As impossible as it seems after watching the play in slow motion, Thompson was cleared to return to this game by Golden State's medical staff after undergoing evaluation in "a quiet, distraction-free environment conducive to conducting a neurological evaluation," as quoted from the NBA's official Concussion Policy Summary.

Alas, a potentially rash diagnosis was made and Thompson was put at risk for further injury. On the surface, Golden State's medical staff is to blame, but doing so without all the facts would be as equally irresponsible as clearing someone eligible to play in a professional basketball game after his jaw got absolutely rocked by a dude who's 6-foot-8 and 210 pounds.

It's possible Thompson passed the test. We can't know that for sure. But throwing up on the drive home from work isn't something people do unless there's a problem. The team then labeled his injury "a contusion" one day later, per USA Today's Sam Amick. On Friday, the Warriors changed their diagnosis (again) after receiving more information from a neurologist (shouldn't this have been Thompson's first stop?) this morning.

[Tha2KProphet]

How about we just agree to this:

Thompson faked to shoot the ball, Ariza bit the fake, Thompson wanted Ariza to commit a foul = Concussion

just my opinion.

My Opinion to

[Andrew]

Thompson is back at practice, which is an encouraging sign.

[Kevin]

A huge relief.

[mp3]

Still a way to go till Friday so I guess he will be fine.

I was hoping the nba brought the finals up a few days like they were thinking but in second thoughts that's not really fair on people who bought tickets to the games.