A summation of the current Kobe situation

Maybe the vaginal injury just implies agressive and rough sex.

Kobe's a celebrity maybe she was really excited...

I've hear that anonymous NBA players have said this chick is a basketball groupie, so if she is just smuttin around...

WTF is Kobe's problem? Vanessa is a dime!

Are they showin the case on TV?

Are they showin the case on TV?

Hopefully not, if they do, you would know about these haters trying to kill Kobe in their TV set, .

see what people are doing to her?

So you're saying that it is acceptable to release the accuser's name, address, phone number and all that stuff?

Both of them have rights, if you have to respect someone's rights, you might as well respect the person being accused rights. Nobody released Kobe's phone number or address, why should you get to know hers?

In the matter of getting to know her name, we will hopefully soon, maybe in 2 days, will it make any difference?, if she's going to get killed by some crazy fan (that I truly believe there are some, since some hate me just cause I'm a Lakers fan), then she will whenever the times comes, not before, not later.

So since Kobe's name is everywhere, hers should be too, wrong! Yes in some cases

That's the price of fame and it is YES IN EVERY CASE. I don't think Monica Lewinski, or whatever her name is, had to keep in secret her identity. What's the difference in this case? there are as many crazy politicians as crazy sports fans.

it's better to keep hers private because it is for her own good.

True, then nobody will rape her imagination again.

That is so dumb, has she ever accused ANYONE else before of rape? As far as I know, she didn't.

I heard we can compare the girl with Mother Teresa. , maybe some differences but besides using drugs, trying to kill herself twice, and being mentally ill, she might as well compete for the tittle.

So you're saying sending her threatening emails, making harrassing phone calls and posting her details so that such practices may be possible is perfectly acceptable behaviour?

It's not acceptable but...

I'm pretty sure Kobe fans/supporters would think it's OK to do all those things.

I'm not a supporter but knowing that nothing can really happen to her but receiving calls from strangers, there's something called caller ID, it identifies where the calls are coming from. If you don't want to take a call, just don't do it. Again, sooner or later her name will be out and whatever that was going to happen to her before (if anything at all), is going to happen later, .

Nobody did anything to Tyson's accuser, to OJ ex-wife's family, to Monica, nobody has done anything to anyone who has provided a name in these cases. Why? cause it doesn't matter, it will be out sooner or later and everyone will be talking about it as well. Maybe if she sends her mom to represent her, and she moves to Africa after all this, then her identity will be kept in secret, something that I don't think is going to happen.

When do you guys think Kobe's fans are going to be really mad, now that she accused him or later if he's found guilty and goes to jail?, . It doesn't matter, it will be worse once the trial is over if Kobe is found guilty, all this drama will be nothing compared with whatever is about to come, that's the truth.

Nobody released Kobe's phone number or address, why should you get to know hers?

What? That really doesn't make any sense..

In the matter of getting to know her name, we will hopefully soon, maybe in 2 days..

Don't think they're gonna release her name anytime soon, maybe never..who knows. I hope they're not because it's for her protection. I know the minute they release her picture or name, more threats will come her way.

That's the price of fame and it is YES IN EVERY CASE.

If I'm not mistaken, she's not asking for fame? I believed she's accusing him of rape because it might've happened? I mean what is she supposed to do? "Oh it's Kobe Bryant, he's famous so I should just keep quiet and not turn him in." Yeah so cuz Kobe is famous, he can go around and rape any girl he want and get away with it? She's doing what is right; she has a right to call the police IF something indeed happened. Especially when being raped, it's a serious crime no matter if you're a celebrity or not.

True, then nobody will rape her imagination again.

So you're saying Kobe didn't do it? How do you know that for sure? Is it because he's your favorite basketball player? Cuz he's on the Lakers, your favorite team? Or both and you think he's not that kind of person so anything bad he does, you don't believe it's him?

I heard we can compare the girl with Mother Teresa. , maybe some differences but besides using drugs, trying to kill herself twice, and being mentally ill, she might as well compete for the tittle.

So without knowing who she really is, you decide you can just judge her from what others are saying about her?

I'm not a supporter but knowing that nothing can really happen to her but receiving calls from strangers, there's something called caller ID, it identifies where the calls are coming from.

Hmm..,so you think it's OK to receive threatening emails and phone calls everyday? Also, not everyone has Caller ID.

Nobody did anything to Tyson's accuser, to OJ ex-wife's family, to Monica, nobody has done anything to anyone who has provided a name in these cases. Why? cause it doesn't matter, it will be out sooner or later and everyone will be talking about it as well. Maybe if she sends her mom to represent her, and she moves to Africa after all this, then her identity will be kept in secret, something that I don't think is going to happen.

Yeah and her name is thought to be all over the net, along with her pics, address, and phone number.. Imagine if that was really her personal information going around. For God sakes, even the DA gets death threats.. What has he done to them? Is it because he charged "your favorite basketball player of sexual assault?"

Travis

Last edited by TravisLee324 on Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm not a supporter but knowing that nothing can really happen to her but receiving calls from strangers, there's something called caller ID, it identifies where the calls are coming from.

As Travis said, not everyone has Caller ID. More importantly, it still doesn't justify threatening phone calls. I'm not sure about US law, but over here in Australia it's a form of abuse and a punishable offense.

I'm not a supporter but knowing that nothing can really happen to her but receiving calls from strangers, there's something called caller ID, it identifies where the calls are coming from.

As Travis said, not everyone has Caller ID. More importantly, it still doesn't justify threatening phone calls. I'm not sure about US law, but over here in Australia it's a form of abuse and a punishable offense.

wut do the goverment of Australia do as the punishments?

Has anyone besides me wondered what kobe supporters would do to the girl if kobe is found guilty?

What? That really doesn't make any sense..

u better get used to saying this while discussing topics with scubilete

That really doesn't make any sense..

Don't think they're gonna release her name anytime soon, maybe never..

Oh ok, then she will be miss nobody in front of everyone.

I know the minute they release her picture or name, more threats will come her way.

Only if every fan is as crazy as those who hate the Lakers fans, maybe there will be threats to her.

If I'm not mistaken, she's not asking for fame?

Oh P-L-E-A-S-E, all she wanted was to be nobody.

Yeah so cuz Kobe is famous, he can go around and rape any girl he want and get away with it?

No, but how do you know he raped her?, did you help him?

She's doing what is right; she has a right to call the police IF something indeed happened. Especially when being raped, it's a serious crime no matter if you're a celebrity or not.

Like anyone is saying she's not doing the right thing,

So you're saying Kobe didn't do it?

So you're saying he did it?, I wasn't there and I'm not saying she's lying but you sound like you know he did it, maybe you were there, I don't know.

Is it because he's your favorite basketball player?

I don't think he is, so NO.

Cuz he's on the Lakers, your favorite team?

If he were in the Cavs, still I'd be saying the same thing, something you wouldn't do if it was a particular player but happens that is a Laker and you hate the Lakers,

Or both and you think he's not that kind of person so anything bad he does, you don't believe it's him?

I don't care if he did it, all I'm telling you is the truth. After all I don't hate any fan from any team like you do.

So without knowing who she really is, you decide you can just judge her from what others are saying about her?

hmmmm, nobody know who she really is and whatever everyone is saying about her past is TRUE. I don't have to judge her, but you would be the only one who believe every crazy person you find in the streets. Even when you live in CA.

so you think it's OK to receive threatening emails and phone calls everyday?

hmmmm, so you think everyone has time to make those calls and write stupid emails, you can easily delete those, Maybe there are people who start crying whenever they receive a virus by email, or maybe they get killed by that or with a phone call, .

You are making this thing a huge matter like none of you live in this world. Andrew I would understand but you Travis, he he he. Your location says you live in CA, I don't think you've heard of anyone there who has died by a threatening phone call.

Also, not everyone has Caller ID.

True, that is something really expensive which is not worthy the price. However, it would help, not eveyone thinks the way you do. You are trying to deny that she can keep her private life off the street without being miss nobody.

Yeah and her name is thought to be all over the net, along with her pics, address, and phone number.

Are we talking about Porno sites?

Imagine if that was really her personal information going around. For God sakes, even the DA gets death threats

Again, did anything bad happened to Monica when she reported her intimate relations with the President?

Is it because he charged "your favorite basketball player of sexual assault?"

You are the first one who has come with a ridiculous comment like that. Maybe you want to force everyone here to be a Kobe fan when they are not. Look at your pic... Think again when you say "my" favorite basketball player... Ask yourself the question and tell me if you know anyone's else fav. player. I don't think you know me that well to say you know who that is. You are coming with idiotic comments like that when you don't have even the time to think about whatever you are saying.

As Travis said, not everyone has Caller ID.

, It is really expensive over here and I don't think she will get one now. Maybe $15, after all, there are Kobe fans everywhere and some of her neighbors are Kobe fans as well (how can you think they are not?) and they haven't done anything to her.

wut do the goverment of Australia do as the punishments?

Maybe they cancel their phone accounts.

Has anyone besides me wondered what kobe supporters would do to the girl if kobe is found guilty?

I already posted the statement, these people think that the worse thing was to accuse Kobe when they don't even imagine what will be next if they really believe Kobe's fans are so crazy.

u better get used to saying this while discussing topics with scubilete

Well, anyone with a brain would understand that

Nobody released Kobe's phone number or address, why should you get to know hers?

I'm questioning you why should you get to know her address & phone number if those info about Kobe were not released? That's all, you know the accused, why can't you know the accuser?, if you tell me your name, why can't I tell you mine?, it's simple.

If it didn't make sense to you Travis, I'm sorry, after all your hate against me and every Lakers fans doesn't make any sense at all either and there's nothing I can do to avoid it.

Is Kobe Bryant's email address, phone number, and address all over the internet? I kind of doubt that one, don't you? His name and face is because he's a celebrity...but no other personal information about him is out.

As for threatening calls, how many people receive threatening phone calls? Not that many...when they do, there's usually a reason and a legitimate chance that something will happen. It's not a joke, it's not a prank, or anything. It's a punishable offense. A few of my friends were messing with this asshole kid from school, sent him an email saying things like they fucked his girlfriend and they were gonna beat the shit out of him, and they were arrested by the FBI....and this is a minor offense that was just a joke. They got probation, but that just shows you that no matter how minor the offense, it IS illegal to do and a form of harassment which is punishable by law.

This woman will receive TONS of death threats....like someone said, the DA got death threats, why wouldn't the victim?

As for your examples...Mike Tyson? Everyone knew he was guilty because he's a psycho....OJ? Come on, he's a murderer walking around free because they played the race card and the LAPD screwed up...Clinton? Lewinksi never accused him of rape, she just said she gave him a blowjob to get famous...and it worked. Lewinksi is different than this situation because she came forward about something that wasn't technically illegal...giving a guy a consensual hummer is just adultery, and it's not even really "full fledged adultery" because he didn't have sex with her...

This is RAPE.

From MSNBCSports:

Aug. 4 — A bellman at the lodge where Kobe Bryant is accused of sexual assault has said he saw the alleged victim soon after the incident and that she was upset, disheveled and had red marks on her face and neck, ABC and ESPN reported, citing unnamed sources. THE BELLMAN TOLD POLICE he saw the 19-year-old woman soon after she left Bryant’s room June 30, the night of the alleged assault, ABC and ESPN reported, citing sources. The bellman told police that the woman told him what happened in Bryant’s hotel room, according to the report. The alleged victim went to the police the next day. Bryant, an All-Star guard for the Lakers, was charged with felony sexual assault involving a 19-year-old woman. Bryant said he had consensual sex with her June 30 at an exclusive spa where he was staying when he came to Colorado for knee surgery.
He has posted a $25,000 bond and is to return to Colorado on Wednesday for an initial court appearance.

I'm starting to have serious doubts about Kobe getting out of this thing. More and more signs are pointing towards his guilt and if he is guilty of rape, he should be punished by the full extent of the law, even in that means 20 years to life imprisonment.

Regarding Shane and Scublite:
First, I think it's unfair to Kobe that his name is being thrown out there as a raper and the girl, who may be lying, is referred to as the accuser. However, if Kobe is indeed found innocent and the girl was lying, then I wouldn't see any reason to keep her identity anonymous.

Ive seen a article similair to this one, the other one also added that the bellman is a good friend of the 19 yr old women. It also convirms that she had torn clothes and was crying. where was he all the time, it is like 3 weeks ago and he shows up now? and shouldnt a good friend take the victim straight to the police station after she told him she was raped? or take her to the hospital with these such noticable injuries? some friend... And why isnt he on the Witnesses list?

I know these are responses to Travis, but for the sake of discussion I'll throw in my two cents.

Like anyone is saying she's not doing the right thing

It's more a case of people saying she's only doing this for vindictive reasons.

hmmmm, nobody know who she really is and whatever everyone is saying about her past is TRUE. I don't have to judge her, but you would be the only one who believe every crazy person you find in the streets. Even when you live in CA.

A lot of people are judging her on her past though. "Oh, she had a problem with overdosing. She's crazy, she obviously dreamed the whole thing up. She's a gold digger, no question."

hmmmm, so you think everyone has time to make those calls and write stupid emails, you can easily delete those, Maybe there are people who start crying whenever they receive a virus by email, or maybe they get killed by that or with a phone call, .

That still doesn't justify doing it. After all, it's still a form of abuse, and according to Shane's anecdote it's as much a crime over in the US as it is over here. Just because someone isn't hurt or scarred over a crime does not justify or excuse the crime.

Has anyone besides me wondered what kobe supporters would do to the girl if kobe is found guilty?

A lot of people will probably continue to call the girl a gold digger or the legal system racist. It's something that people will have to accept if it happens. But if Vanessa will stand by Kobe, there's nothing wrong with his fans sticking by him too. More power to them for doing so.

wut do the goverment of Australia do as the punishments?

I don't think they'd just cancel the offender's phone service. Probably something similar to what Shane said. They'd be arrested and charged. They probably wouldn't serve a prison sentence, but they'd be punished and get a criminal record; something that may prevent them getting the job they desire.

First, I think it's unfair to Kobe that his name is being thrown out there as a raper and the girl, who may be lying, is referred to as the accuser.

Consider the situation though. Kobe is a popular athlete, and sports fans have been known to do some pretty crazy things. Some form of protection is required.

However, if Kobe is indeed found innocent and the girl was lying, then I wouldn't see any reason to keep her identity anonymous

I disagree. If Kobe is found not guilty, it does not automatically mean she was lying. After all, OJ was found not guilty, but most people don't suggest that he truly is innocent and it was a matter of racism. If her details get out she'll no doubt be abused. Even if she is lying, then two wrongs don't make a right, and nothing justifies a crime.

Also consider the possibility of mistaken identity. Someone else has already been mistaken for the alleged victim and has suffered abuse as a result. To release her details would be to invite abuse.

Consider the situation though. Kobe is a popular athlete, and sports fans have been known to do some pretty crazy things. Some form of protection is required.

I know that he is a celebrity but it's still not fair to call someone a raper if he hasn't been found guilty yet, which is what a lot of people are doing. These types of accusations will hurt anyone's feelings, whether he or she is a celebrity or not. Even if he's found to be innocent, the emotional damage from these accusations will last a long time. But I agree that right now, it would be best to keep the accuser's identity confidential.

Quote:
However, if Kobe is indeed found innocent and the girl was lying, then I wouldn't see any reason to keep her identity anonymous


I disagree. If Kobe is found not guilty, it does not automatically mean she was lying. After all, OJ was found not guilty, but most people don't suggest that he truly is innocent and it was a matter of racism. If her details get out she'll no doubt be abused. Even if she is lying, then two wrongs don't make a right, and nothing justifies a crime.

Also consider the possibility of mistaken identity. Someone else has already been mistaken for the alleged victim and has suffered abuse as a result. To release her details would be to invite abuse.

My reason for that comment was because of my belief that rape is a very serious crime and falsly accusing someone of rape is just as haneous a crime as actually raping someone. For whatever reason, if it runs out that the girl is making up false accusations, then I believe it would be fair to release her name so she would also feel the emotional suffering that Kobe must be going through (if he's innocent). As for OJ, no one except for him knows the truth but racism was a big part of his trial though and it may be a part of the Kobe trial as well, so we do need to take that into account.

"And why isnt he on the Witnesses list?"

Has there been a witness list posted???? I haven't seen it

"And why isnt he on the Witnesses list?"

Has there been a witness list posted???? I haven't seen it

a witness that watched Kobe and the girl have sex? huh not likely

a witness that watched Kobe and the girl have sex? huh not likely

The bellman saw the girl after she left Kobe's room.

I know that he is a celebrity but it's still not fair to call someone a raper if he hasn't been found guilty yet, which is what a lot of people are doing. These types of accusations will hurt anyone's feelings, whether he or she is a celebrity or not. Even if he's found to be innocent, the emotional damage from these accusations will last a long time. But I agree that right now, it would be best to keep the accuser's identity confidential.

Agreed. They actually can't call him a rapist yet - it's alleged he committed a crime, so he's only an alleged rapist. Any articles should include the word "alleged", even when talking about the girl. It's alleged that she's the victim of rape, but that hasn't yet been proven.

My reason for that comment was because of my belief that rape is a very serious crime and falsly accusing someone of rape is just as haneous a crime as actually raping someone.

Personally, I wouldn't say it's quite the same as rape, but it certainly is very slanderous and unjustified behaviour.

For whatever reason, if it runs out that the girl is making up false accusations, then I believe it would be fair to release her name so she would also feel the emotional suffering that Kobe must be going through (if he's innocent).

As I said before, two wrongs don't make a right. Even if she is lying about being raped - we know she's not lying about having had sex with Kobe, as he's admitted to that - I don't think you could justify her being abused as some form of payback. Nothing justifies abuse.

But it should be said, even if Kobe is not found guilty it doesn't mean she's lying or is a gold digger. She may honestly feel she was raped, but there is no substantial evidence to support the claim.

For that reason, I don't think her details should be released. It would be basically be an invitation for a few crazy sports fans. "Here are her details. Feel free to abuse her." I know you're not suggesting that's appropriate behaviour or supporting abuse, but there are people who would take any opportunity to "pay her back for what she did to Kobe".

As for OJ, no one except for him knows the truth but racism was a big part of his trial though and it may be a part of the Kobe trial as well, so we do need to take that into account.

I guess so. But most people seem to think that he is guilty, and that there just wasn't enough evidence to convict him.

As Shane said before, if Kobe's lawyers play the race card he's probably guilty. If he's not guilty, then they should prove without a shadow of a doubt that he is indeed innocent, not that the DA is racist. If they come out with a defence of "My client has been accused of this crime because of the colour of his skin" in the face of evidence that Kobe may have indeed committed rape, then I can't see them winning.

Again, Kobe's lawyers should endeavour to prove he isn't guilty of committing the crime, not just exposing the alleged victim's past substance abuse or claiming racism.

Shane, the case is that she doesn't have to hide, she doesn't have to be scared of anything, nobody has done anything to anyone who has been in similar cases, Robby got another point there.

This woman will receive TONS of death threats....like someone said, the DA got death threats, why wouldn't the victim?

The DA got death threats?, just like the FBI & every Major/Governor of each city, that's not extrange or do you think this is the first time someone get any threats?... Why wouldn't the victim?, well, unless there are people so stupid to go to jail for Kobe, I don't think there will be any. Besides that, I haven't heard of anyone being killed by a death threat phone call if that's what you are scared of. If you get any threats or emails containing threats, I don't think you would start crying and panic, or stop living for that, at least I wouldn't.

how many people receive threatening phone calls? Not that many...when they do, there's usually a reason and a legitimate chance that something will happen.

How can you be so sure?, at least you live in a quiet place, I believe, but for you to think "not that many"... Many people, especially famous & politicians, receive those kind of calls, it's just that they don't start crying they are getting those calls, so you get to know it.

The DA mentioned they were getting some regarding the case, you can't think this is the very first time they've ever got those. You won't stop living for getting a threatening call, nobody has killed anyone by doing that. And I'm not saying I want things to get to that extreme, but that's the farther they can get and never have happened.

A few of my friends were messing with this asshole kid from school, sent him an email saying things like they fucked his girlfriend and they were gonna beat the shit out of him, and they were arrested by the FBI...

Again, do you think anyone wants to go to jail like that? Do you really think Kobe fans are so stupid to do that?, In that neighborhood might be a Kobe fan, how comes he/she hasn't done anything to that girl?, that girl for sure went to school and those know well who the girl is, do you think there are no Kobe fans among those?, I do understand not everyone is a Kobe fan but from there to believe none of those are....

and this is a minor offense that was just a joke. They got probation, but that just shows you that no matter how minor the offense, it IS illegal to do and a form of harassment which is punishable by law.

I'm not arguing they never catch criminals, after all they are the Federal Bureau of Idiots but you can't think the FBI is behind everyone.

Lewinksi is different than this situation because she came forward about something that wasn't technically illegal... and it's not even really "full fledged adultery" because he didn't have sex with her...

This is RAPE.

The case is SHANE, THERE ARE AS MANY CRAZY POLITICIANS AS CRAZY SPORTS FANS, don't try to sound stupid here, I'm not comparing the cases of who was guilty or not, of what was rape or what wasn't, I'm comparing the cases of having any reason to hide.

A lot of people are judging her on her past though. "Oh, she had a problem with overdosing. She's crazy, she obviously dreamed the whole thing up. She's a gold digger, no question."

Well Andrew, what do you want people to say? all they are saying is the truth. Over here if you kill someone, it will stay in your records until you die and you will be known as a killer. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. If she had those mental problems, don't expect people to call her Mother Teresa, that's her record & it will stay there forever, no matter what she does to clean it, it will stay there.

That still doesn't justify doing it.

The problem is you think they are doing it, when nobody has done anything.

But if Vanessa will stand by Kobe, there's nothing wrong with his fans sticking by him too. More power to them for doing so.

Well, I asked you the same thing if it was MJ, for sure every MJ fan would be doing what Kobe fans are doing, no doubt about it. I'm not a Kobe fan but a Lakers fan, all I think is -- there's no reason to hide, I don't think anyone would kill someone for Kobe, I don't think anyone would go to jail for Kobe, I don't think anyone would do any crazy thing for Kobe, I might be wrong but I don't think it would happen --.

Someone else has already been mistaken for the alleged victim and has suffered abuse as a result.

I really don't know what happened to that person, but can you be more specific with what "suffered abuse" is?, Did they kill her?

Nobody is saying that's an acceptable behavior, but that's not a reason to hide her identity, when we know some other have been in the same situations and nothing have happened to them, why would you think this time will? You are the site administrator, I guess maybe you have been in bad positions, maybe some crazy kid, mad cause you banned him, have said something bad to you, what was the result?, you didn't die or got that scared of going out to the street or anything like that, did you?

Tomorrow is the great day, however I heard that is going to be just to advice Bryant about his rights & the charges against him, so nothing exciting is going to happen there.

You have GOT to be kidding me....use some logic, seriously. THINK for once. I mean, seriously, where do you think of this stuff?

Shane, the case is that she doesn't have to hide, she doesn't have to be scared of anything, nobody has done anything to anyone who has been in similar cases, Robby got another point there.

What part of 'receiving threats' do you not understand? One phone call, an email threatening you, yeah, that's probably no big deal, but the woman who was wrongly named as the alleged victim received MANY emails and threatening phone calls. It only takes one person to be crazy enough about Kobe Bryant to actually do something to her....you know the Eminem song "Stan?" There really are fans that are that crazy about their favorite players, artists, and what not. Nobody has done anything? Please, why do you think there's things like witness protection programs and why do you think that people who are victims of serious crimes - such as rape - are kept under protection? Do you know NOTHING about the way people are?

You've mentioned many times how many Kobe fans are and how none of them have done anything....how there's some in her own town, and they haven't done anything....how do you know they aren't the ones making the threatening phone calls and what not? Do you know every single fan of Kobe Bryant personally and every single one of them is mentally stable and intelligent enough to know how stupid it would be to go to jail for their favorite basketball player? Seeing as few of the posters on the board know that making threatening phone calls or whatever is even illegal, what makes you think that every single person in the US that is a fan of Bryant knows that?

Think about this...if threats weren't serious, why would they be illegal? You can go to jail simply for saying to someone in a heated moment 'I'm gonna kill you.'...why wouldn't a phone call be the same way?

The DA got death threats?, just like the FBI & every Major/Governor of each city, that's not extrange or do you think this is the first time someone get any threats?...

Where did I say it was strange? Want to hear the difference between mayors, govenors, and district attorneys and normal citizens? They generally have body guards because of that....probably not the mayor or DA of Eagle County because it's a small town, but then again, because it's a small town, how often do they get death threats in the first place? Again, think for once.

Why wouldn't the victim?,

There's a key word in that sentence: she's the VICTIM. Logic would dictate that the one perpetrating the alleged crime would receive death threats for doing something as heinous as rape...but he's not, now is he? Once again, think...

well, unless there are people so stupid to go to jail for Kobe, I don't think there will be any.

If the people making the threats are caught, they will go to jail. Threats have already been made, so people are stupid enough to want to go to jail for him.

Besides that, I haven't heard of anyone being killed by a death threat phone call if that's what you are scared of.

That's because it's not the threat that kills them....duh

If you get any threats or emails containing threats, I don't think you would start crying and panic, or stop living for that, at least I wouldn't.

Here's a hypothetical situation. Say I started annonymously calling your house, asking for you, and then telling you that I was going to kill you because you're a Laker fan. Now, the first time you get the phone call, you laugh, hang up, tell your friends about the weird call, and so on. The next day, you receive another one from the same person. Then the next day. Then the next day. Wouldn't that get annoying? And wouldn't it start to make you wonder if something actually was going to happen to you? Now, multiply that by at least 5,000, and think of emails as well. Then you're surfing the web and find a picture of you, your address, your phone number, your email address, and a post that says "Make him pay for being a Laker fan." Now, if you get 5000 calls and emails daily from people telling you that they're going to kill you, wouldn't you kind of worry? Not only about your popularity, but you'd wonder if there was actually someone crazy enough to do something to you over something as stupid as your team loyalty. With that being said, do we even have to argue about why death threats are punishable by law?

How can you be so sure?, at least you live in a quiet place, I believe, but for you to think "not that many"... Many people, especially famous & politicians, receive those kind of calls, it's just that they don't start crying they are getting those calls, so you get to know it.

I live in a town of 250 people (right now, I move to Ames at the end of the week). My supervisor at work is friends iwth my mom because my mom babysits her kids; my supervisor is divorced. Her ex-husband lives in my town as well, and he calls her late at night, breaks into her house, leaves notes in her car and the like. She has a restraining order against him. How can I be sure? Because I know it happens. Yes, many famous people and politicians receive phone calls like this, but those are usually from people that are crazy and would do something...and it's pretty much only large cities and national or state politicians that receive threats, and those people have bodyguards. So do famous people. So threats like those aren't really that big a deal, now are they? But they're still threats.....remember Selena? John Lennon? They received threats....and they're dead....and they're famous. This woman isn't....and who knows what would happen to her if her name was released? Probably nothing....but in this case (and every other rape case), better safe than sorry.

The DA mentioned they were getting some regarding the case, you can't think this is the very first time they've ever got those.

It's a town of like 3,000 people. I doubt he gets very many threats because of a few reasons:

1. It's a small town
2. Since it's a small town, the severity of crimes he prosecutes aren't exactly that serious
3. Because it's a small town, everyone would know who made the threats, so it's pointless to do it....odds are very good the threats are coming from elsewhere in the nation.

You won't stop living for getting a threatening call, nobody has killed anyone by doing that.

But they've been killed by people making death threats...

And I'm not saying I want things to get to that extreme, but that's the farther they can get and never have happened.

You're a fucking idiot after that comment...'NEVER' happened? Please.

Again, do you think anyone wants to go to jail like that?

No...who wants to go to jail in the first place?

Do you really think Kobe fans are so stupid to do that?,

Yes...there's many of them, and most of them seem to be dumb as a brick and loyal to Kobe no matter what he does.

In that neighborhood might be a Kobe fan, how comes he/she hasn't done anything to that girl?

Because it's a small town and it would be found out who was threatening her rather quickly...that and the people in the town know her and are more likely to be on her side and less likely to make threatening calls...

I'm not quoting the rest of that paragraph because I already explained...

I'm not arguing they never catch criminals, after all they are the Federal Bureau of Idiots but you can't think the FBI is behind everyone.

Federal Bureau of Idiots? I don't think the FBI is behind everyone which is why death threats are bad....because just one of the people the FBI isn't watching (which in this case is a lot) is all it takes to actually do soemthing to her.

The case is SHANE, THERE ARE AS MANY CRAZY POLITICIANS AS CRAZY SPORTS FANS, don't try to sound stupid here, I'm not comparing the cases of who was guilty or not, of what was rape or what wasn't, I'm comparing the cases of having any reason to hide.

You sound stupid here because you didn't read what I said:

Lewinksi is different than this situation because she came forward about something that wasn't technically illegal... and it's not even really "full fledged adultery" because he didn't have sex with her...

Now, did Clinton rape her? No...did he force her? No...she willingly dropped to her knees for him. She just came forward for fame. That might be the case here, but odds are not stacked in Kobe's favor for that to be the case, not to mention the fact that there WAS NOT A CRIMINAL TRIAL INVOLVING BILL CLINTON AND MONICA LEWINSKI.

As for Tyson and OJ, there was so much evidence against Tyson, not to mention his history of violence, that you could have convicted him....as for OJ, he got off on a technicallity and the race card....both of which are horrible reasons for a murderer to be acquitted. This is different than both situations...but you probably won't figure that out till Kobe's free and this woman's life is ruined or Kobe's put in jail and this woman's life is ruined...

Well Andrew, what do you want people to say? all they are saying is the truth. Over here if you kill someone, it will stay in your records until you die and you will be known as a killer. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. If she had those mental problems, don't expect people to call her Mother Teresa, that's her record & it will stay there forever, no matter what she does to clean it, it will stay there.

Oh, so someone with a history of depression can't be taken seriously? So if my friend Heidi, who was aneroxic and is on medication for depression, was raped, she would just be ignored because she had an eating disorder and is on meds? You gotta be kidding. Oh, and trying to commit suicide and killing someone are different....the suicide thing shouldn't even be out there because medical records are supposed to be kept secret, and having her stomach pumped for pills tends to be a medical situation....STOP COMPARING THINGS THAT ARE NOT SIMILAR.

a witness that watched Kobe and the girl have sex? huh not likely

The bellman saw the girl after she left Kobe's room.

they could be just talking in the room...no body knows...

Oh ok, then she will be miss nobody in front of everyone.

Not exactly "everyone" like you said. The people around Eagle County know who she is. Everyone that knows her said she has never lied about anything, a smart women, former cheerleader and whatnot. Those are the people that she can trust at least, outside of that, no way in hell. That is why it is better to keep her identity private because of stupid and crazy people out there that will only do harm to her.

Only if every fan is as crazy as those who hate the Lakers fans, maybe there will be threats to her.

Man, this is what I meant by you making no sense Shane, Andrew and I have already said that she has already gotten those threats. The wrongfully accused of being her was threatened by email, by phone, and by the use of the internet. They took her face and altered the images, that right there is wrong. So the thing I do not understand is, why do you say, "maybe there will be threats to her" when she (or the other girl) has already received death threats ever since Kobe was charged?

Oh P-L-E-A-S-E, all she wanted was to be nobody.

Ever watch the news? Ever read what Andrew and Shane have said about this not being a civil case? The news quoted her by saying "I do not want his money," but I guess you are going to call her a liar cuz you do not believe her

No, but how do you know he raped her?, did you help him?

No, but how do you know she is lying? I can tell you one thing; there are facts that points to her being raped though.

hmmmm, nobody know who she really is and whatever everyone is saying about her past is TRUE. I don't have to judge her, but you would be the only one who believe every crazy person you find in the streets. Even when you live in CA.

The people in Eagle County KNOW who she is. They know about her past, and nobody has said anything bad about her. They know who she is, everyone who is not in Eagle or near it will not. Therefore, it is easier to believe the people that really know her than the ones that do not. Besides, people say good things about her BEFORE all this had happened. Not like it did and they decided to protect her by saying good things about her. Therefore, that should at least give you some sort of idea that she would not be lying about it. She would not put up a story just to be "famous" like most of you Kobe/Laker fans have been saying.

hmmmm, so you think everyone has time to make those calls and write stupid emails, you can easily delete those..

When did I say "everyone" has time to make calls and threats to her? I said the ones that have been making threats to her and the DA is. Those people should be punished someway at least. What you are saying is as if it is OK for threats and emails. You say you can easily delete unwanted emails, true. One thing is, it is annoying to even have them in the first place. Ever heard of SPAM/junk emails? Nobody wants to have them in their inbox, but I guess you wouldn't mind those do you? I guess you won't be annoyed of having to delete thousands of unwanted emails a day? If you do not mind that, you are just weird. This is the same thing by what Andrew and Shane are saying. She's getting death threats, emails, negative comments about her in chat rooms, you make it sound like none of it matters. None of it matters cuz you think she is not hurt by it, how do you know how she is feeling?

You are making this thing a huge matter like none of you live in this world. Andrew I would understand but you Travis, he he he. Your location says you live in CA, I don't think you've heard of anyone there who has died by a threatening phone call.

You are making it sound like it is OK to get death threats, abusive things said towards you. You just do not get it; a man might not be hurt by it as much as a woman does. She is still young; ever thought about how much this is scaring her? It is a serious crime to make death threats to people, and I hope whoever does it will be caught. Should be punished for doing it.

You are trying to deny that she can keep her private life off the street without being miss nobody.

Why would she want to be "miss somebody" and go through each day of her life knowing one day something bad might happen to her? As I said, she had to report it because it might have happened. Every other girl/woman would and should do the same as well. So it is not because she wanted fame, she just want justice. I also want to bring up something that came up to mind. The day that the DA charged Kobe of sexual assault, her friends and family was watching it live as everyone was. Once the charge was read, they were all happy about it. Meaning they are 100% in support of her, they know her best more than any. They know she would not make up such an act, and I am sure they have seen the marks and bruises on her as well. Else, she wouldn't have any chance of winning the case over a high-profile star like Kobe.

Are we talking about Porno sites?

Are we talking about how stupid you are?

Again, did anything bad happened to Monica when she reported her intimate relations with the President?

Did anyone really care what Clinton does? I sure don't, hell I did not even watch any of his speech. Political cases are serious to political people. All you are going to hear are debates and opinions. You cannot compare that to what we are having here because this case is VERY different. Read what Shane said about the Clinton and Lewinski scandal, he said it best. No one is going to make death threats or email the President (or Monica) that way, cuz most do not really care what happens. Heck people even joked about it, it is considered to be more comedy to the public. Anyway, it is suicidal by threatening the President. This case with Kobe and the accuser is different because there is more public interest. This is Kobe Bryant you are talking about, he is a celebrity, and he has fans. Most of his fans are of course Laker fans, Laker fans are from L.A. L.A. fans are mostly African American and Latinos, and a mix of other nationality (nothing racial, just providing the facts). As you know, they will do pretty much anything to protect Kobe and the Lakers. Yes, they will use violence to get what they want. Therefore, with that being said, most likely something bad will happen to her IF her name and picture is out. She can't feel safe anywhere if Kobe is found guilty, or not..
You are the first one who has come with a ridiculous comment like that.

Maybe you want to force everyone here to be a Kobe fan when they are not.

So you are a Laker fan but not a Kobe fan? Somewhat hard to believe because I mean, when you talk about the Lakers, Shaq and Kobe comes up to mind. Anyway, you are not a Kobe fan but you love to watch him play. You take your time to argue with anyone who is against him?

Look at your pic... Think again when you say "my" favorite basketball player...

What the hell does my pic have to do with this argument?

You are coming with idiotic comments like that when you don't have even the time to think about whatever you are saying.

Too bad you are from the "North Pole," guess that is why you don't understand much of the facts being said. Guess that is why you think I am coming up with "idiotic comments" cuz you don't understand them..?

and they haven't done anything to her.

Maybe because she has 24/7 protection all this time? Ever thought of that?

Maybe they cancel their phone accounts.

Maybe that is what happens when you do something like that up there where you live? I guess that is why you think nothing serious is gonna happen to the one doing all the threatening huh? If they are just going to cancel your phone line, no one is going to be afraid to make threats. All they have to do is sign up for another phone company.. Listen man; don't speak when you don't even know how things are in America. You have to be careful what you do here because it's not that easy to fool the government or the police. Investigators have ways to find out almost anything related to crime and punishments.

Well, anyone with a brain would understand that

Not everyone speaks your language..

I'm questioning you why should you get to know her address & phone number if those info about Kobe were not released? That's all, you know the accused, why can't you know the accuser?, if you tell me your name, why can't I tell you mine?, it's simple.

Why do you want to know her personal information then? Didn't I already say that it is better to keep it private for her own good? Lemme tell you this, if you post both Kobe and the accuser's address and phone number on the net. These are bound to happen. Kobe will be getting calls/visits by fans, nothing bad will happen to him because HE HAS BODYGUARDS. He has people protecting him from all threats (if there is any..). While the accuser WILL get death threats, emails, abusive language thrown at her, her picture and other information will be everywhere on the net. Then of course they might find a way to get to her and who knows what happens then. That is the difference between having her personal information out there as compared to Kobe's.

A lot of people are judging her on her past though.

Yes, lemme also add this to Andrew's comment. Not everyone's past mean the same as their present. Meaning, whatever happened in the past might and can be changed. People change sometimes, either for the better or for the worst. In this case, she has a good past and some bad as well. That is all we really know about her, the rest are just from news sources of what is being transpired ever since. Therefore, as far as Kobe goes, he has VERY good past indeed. That however might not be the case now; you don't really know whom he really is inside. What he does off camera or behind doors. He has made it more true that there is another side of him when he admitted to adultery.

Just because someone isn't hurt or scarred over a crime does not justify or excuse the crime.

Very true.

I will reply to the rest later on, have other things to do

Travis

Last edited by TravisLee324 on Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Andrew:

As I said before, two wrongs don't make a right. Even if she is lying about being raped - we know she's not lying about having had sex with Kobe, as he's admitted to that - I don't think you could justify her being abused as some form of payback. Nothing justifies abuse.

But it should be said, even if Kobe is not found guilty it doesn't mean she's lying or is a gold digger. She may honestly feel she was raped, but there is no substantial evidence to support the claim.

For that reason, I don't think her details should be released. It would be basically be an invitation for a few crazy sports fans. "Here are her details. Feel free to abuse her." I know you're not suggesting that's appropriate behaviour or supporting abuse, but there are people who would take any opportunity to "pay her back for what she did to Kobe".

Please don't take this personally, but the idea of two wrongs don't make a right is not applicabe in the real world. This is exactly what Kobe may have to go through if convicted. He may have committed a wrong (rape), and he may be "abused" by going to jail which is, in a sense, "payback" for his crime. His going to jail, if proven guilty, would be considered "right" by most but isn't it just another wrong? And if the charges are indeed false, and brought forth becuase of a selfish reason, then in my mind that's a crime and should be punished. How it is to be punished, I have no idea but I think there should be some punishment. And from what I got out of your comment is that you're suggesting that she shouldn't be punished for the crime of making false accusations? If that's your belief, then I respect that but I also hope that you respect my belief that knowingly making false accusations is a crime. We can agree to disagree and hopefully avoid a flame war or the type of interaction going on between Shane and scublite right now.

a witness that watched Kobe and the girl have sex? huh not likely

The bellman saw the girl after she left Kobe's room.

they could be just talking in the room...no body knows...

Im 99.9% sure that, that isnt true. Kobe Bryant admidit that he had sex with the girl, and why should he lie about that?

Well Andrew, what do you want people to say? all they are saying is the truth. Over here if you kill someone, it will stay in your records until you die and you will be known as a killer. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. If she had those mental problems, don't expect people to call her Mother Teresa, that's her record & it will stay there forever, no matter what she does to clean it, it will stay there.

So when people say she's a gold digger, they're telling the truth? When they say she's making the whole thing up, they're telling the truth? We don't know that for sure. Yes, she has a history of substance abuse and mental illness. That doesn't mean she can't be raped, it doesn't mean she's a gold digger. That hasn't been proven, and cannot be proven simply by saying she's had a history of drug problems and mental illness.

The problem is you think they are doing it, when nobody has done anything.

They've already abused someone they thought was the alleged victim. She's already had contact details posted on websites (illegal if you don't have permission), threatening emails (illegal) and phone calls (illegal) - she's been the victim of abuse. If people will do that to someone they think is the alleged victim, what would stop them from doing it to the alleged victim if they got hold of her details?

Well, I asked you the same thing if it was MJ, for sure every MJ fan would be doing what Kobe fans are doing, no doubt about it. I'm not a Kobe fan but a Lakers fan, all I think is -- there's no reason to hide, I don't think anyone would kill someone for Kobe, I don't think anyone would go to jail for Kobe, I don't think anyone would do any crazy thing for Kobe, I might be wrong but I don't think it would happen --.

I concede, it's very easy for me to say this not being a fan of Kobe Bryant. I do not dislike him, I admire his talent and am entertained by his highlights. But I'm not a fan, and that makes it easier for me to say "Well if he's guilty, then he goes to jail". But for the record: If Michael Jordan was convicted of rape, he should go to jail and I would have to deal with the fact.

I really don't know what happened to that person, but can you be more specific with what "suffered abuse" is?, Did they kill her?

You keep coming back to this idea of if it's not physical, it's not abuse. No, they didn't kill her, but they did harrass her with angry emails and so forth. And that's still wrong. Constant threats can be upsetting.

I guess maybe you have been in bad positions, maybe some crazy kid, mad cause you banned him, have said something bad to you, what was the result?, you didn't die or got that scared of going out to the street or anything like that, did you?

No, I didn't die from it (obviously ), but it's not pleasant to get angry emails. And I've received them from time to time. The ones I get may anger me slightly, but I've never received any death threats or anything. But constant abusive emails would probably start to get me down. I'm only human.

Please don't take this personally, but the idea of two wrongs don't make a right is not applicabe in the real world. This is exactly what Kobe may have to go through if convicted. He may have committed a wrong (rape), and he may be "abused" by going to jail which is, in a sense, "payback" for his crime. His going to jail, if proven guilty, would be considered "right" by most but isn't it just another wrong?

I don't think punishing someone for a crime is a case of two wrongs making a right. If someone commits a crime, then they should be punished. Punishment can be justified, but crime cannot.

And if the charges are indeed false, and brought forth becuase of a selfish reason, then in my mind that's a crime and should be punished.

That's a fair enough idea. If false it's incredibly slanderous, and should be dealt with. The question is, should such action be automatic, or at the discretion of the accused (eg civil suit for defamation of character)?

I don't think it should be automatic. It cannot always be proven that the alleged victim has conjured up a wild tale. If Kobe is found not guilty, does that automatically make the girl a liar? Not necessarily. Obviously, there was enough proof for the DA to take this matter to the next step, so there must be evidence that it may have happened.

And from what I got out of your comment is that you're suggesting that she shouldn't be punished for the crime of making false accusations?

I can see how you would think that, so I guess I'll qualify my position. If indeed she's making false accusations, then sure, Kobe should consider suing her for defamation of character, slander, or whatever. I'm not sure whether slander is considered a misdemeanour or a felony, so I can't comment on what an appropriate punishment may be.

But my point is, a verdict of not guilty does not necessarily mean she's a gold digger. It doesn't necessarily mean she was lying.

If that's your belief, then I respect that but I also hope that you respect my belief that knowingly making false accusations is a crime. We can agree to disagree and hopefully avoid a flame war or the type of interaction going on between Shane and scublite right now.

As I said before, it's not actually my belief, but I acknowledge I had to explain my point of view a little better. I do understand your point of view, but I disagree on some of the finer points (whether a guilty/not guilty verdict determines whether someone is a liar). That's to be expected in a discussion.

I don't think we're flaming, as the forum admin it would be highly inappropriate for me to do so. Let's not confuse intense discussion with flaming. You have not insulted me, and hopefully I have not insulted you, so we are merely presenting arguments for our case. I do agree with some of your assertions, but like I said I disagree with a couple of points. Just difference of opinion, not a flame.

Im 99.9% sure that, that isnt true. Kobe Bryant admidit that he had sex with the girl, and why should he lie about that?

That's what I point to whenever it's suggested the alleged victim is making the whole thing up. Obviously, there is some truth to her story. That's why I think we shouldn't rush to judgment about her character by calling her a gold digger and so forth. It's not as if she never met Kobe Bryant, and they obviously did have sex else Kobe would not admit to it.