Present Day Players Overrated?, Test Of Time, Etc.

[benji]

Wow, I didn't know YouTube had gotten so many Wilt clips. I love how he's quadrupled teamed a few times in that video. Wilt exploding down the court in college:

phpBB [video]

Passing skills
Shot blocking
Wilt taking over the Dean Martin Celebrity Roast
Wilt doing it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6k539HSbXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDHDg5pPrOc

[shadowgrin]

Wilt exploding down the court in college

Holy crap.
I like how the user posted the original clip in three different replay speeds as to minimize the doubt of him editing the playback speed that was uploaded to YouTube.

Shot blocking

I also like how Wilt only started to jump when the player is already at the top of his jump and Wilt still blocked it.
2:26 - only time that I saw the hook shot being blocked. Twice. Consecutively. In one play.

Haven't finished watching the video yet as I keep replaying the clips because of the wtf moments mentioned about the jumping and the blocking and also watching the NBA Finals right now.

[Fresh8]

Overrated by who? Overrated how? Underrated compared to what?

It's not inevitable that anything is forgotten. We don't forget historical events if we've written them down or continue to pass them on in some other form. And we have: http://www.basketball-reference.com/ and http://www.nba.com/history/ and http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_ ... 1275525992 and so on.

Overrated when in comparison to players of the past; my point was that players from the past aren't appreicaited. Well, those players who should be remembered aren't.

But I was merely starting a discussion and wanted to get the ball rolling.

Thanks for all the posts guys, good to read through and sift through the opinions.

[benji]

But again, by who?

And who isn't being remembered? Why do they deserve to be remembered?

And how many instances are generally younger people simply not knowing players existed? It could be like the history of everything else, simply ignorance. And poor education combined with no sense of knowing why they should care. We live now, not in the past, so who cares what happened back then?

[Fresh8]

Just in general like in discussions of who are the best players in history, people will try to compare them. I, for one, do not have a finer appreication for players from the past to be able to say something like Jerry West was better than Kobe Bryant. How do I compare Bill Russell, Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett? Is Wilt Chamberlain the best player ever? Are Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, LeBron James comparable?

Stuff like that. But I guess it's this that makes the debate fun for people to argue.

[benji]

I guess I'm not understanding your point.

[The X]

I love how Russell (& it appears Wilt) would always block to themselves or a teammate rather than current generation simply trying to block it as hard as they can & usually out of bounds.

[benji]

You don't get on SportsCenter if the ball isn't going into the third row.

[The X]

You don't get on SportsCenter if the ball isn't going into the third row.

Sportscenter < an extra few possessions for your team per game

[benji]

You clearly don't have your priorities straight. Earning respect is far more important.

[Sauru]

I love how Russell (& it appears Wilt) would always block to themselves or a teammate rather than current generation simply trying to block it as hard as they can & usually out of bounds.

bill walton was also known for this. he used to comment on how it was pointless to block a shot if you were just giving the ball right back

[NovU]

Overrated when in comparison to players of the past; my point was that players from the past aren't appreicaited. Well, those players who should be remembered aren't.

I don't neccessarily believe today's players are overrated since it's a given that popularity/level has risen all over the world. However, in my humble opinion, if anything makes them overrated, I think it's the rule/attitude changes that has been made to the league after Jordan retired. Not all, but some guys palm the ball, takes extra step(s) after picking up their dribble and push off the defenders, all that without getting calls.Also, not to mention finger tip touch fouls calls, leading players to flop excessively since they know calls are coming. Different era, different rules, I can understand that, but since the game is faster, I do think it's only normal to be seeing more numbers on some of regular stats. Thus, it's just really hard to compare players from different era, but I think the general perception these days is that players from past are not as good as today's generation, as you can see many young people claim it so. Knowing that is probably why I am on defensive side when it comes to comparing legends and current players disccusion since people easily seem to diminish what past players achieved.

[hova-]

You don't get on SportsCenter if the ball isn't going into the third row.

Sportscenter < an extra few possessions for your team per game

I read in a german basketball magazine that there are statistics which allow you to count the real value of a block and thus of a shotblocker.

Some examples:

Rasho Nesterovic managed to get the ball to a teammate in 65% of his blocks, Stromile Swift did not manage it ONE time.

In the seven seasons observed, Tim Duncan did not cause one goaltending, whilst Dwight Howard was called for goaltending in 24% of his block attempts, giving his opponent two points.

Dwight Howard blocked 231 shots in 08/09, Tim Duncan "only" 149. But TD created 167 points out of his blocks (fastbreaks), whilst Howard made 124 points possible.

In the "point per block" statistic (don't know how it's measured), Duncan had four of the best 10 evaluated seasons, whilst Howard had three of the 10 worst. The best season had Theo Ratliff with 300 points per block in 04/05 followed by Marcus Camby with 275 points per block in 08/09.



Really interesting point of view, making the consecutive defensive player of the year look a bit worse than before imo.

[Jeffx]

That's amazing footage. Sick blocks by Wilt. He had that shit timed just right.

When Bill Walton was on TV, he'd scream at players who swatted the ball into the third row. He always said, "Wilt would never do that".

[koberulz]

It's better than swatting it right back to the other team under the basket, though, then it's not much different to biting on a pump fake.

If you can get it to a teammate, that's clearly the best option, but if you have to choose between putting it out of bounds, letting it go, or risking tapping it to an opponent for an uncontested layup, putting it out of bounds is the better option.

[NovU]

I read in a german basketball magazine that there are statistics which allow you to count the real value of a block and thus of a shotblocker.

That is some awesome stuff.

There are reasons why TD is considered the best in the history at his position. He still is one of the best after all those years and wear in his legs. Glad to see even this stats back him up right.

[The X]

I always find it funny if I get blocked in a game the defender starts to celebrate, then I get ball back & score a layup over him. I guess it's a win-win, the defender can say they blocked a shot & I still get my 2 points

[NovU]

I also have experience being carried away with "in your face rejection" moments in my days. I'm not talking about just regular blocks but with 'authority' kind of things. And it's funny how others also enjoy the moments with you as they go Lolz.

[Andrew]

It's better than swatting it right back to the other team under the basket, though, then it's not much different to biting on a pump fake.

If you can get it to a teammate, that's clearly the best option, but if you have to choose between putting it out of bounds, letting it go, or risking tapping it to an opponent for an uncontested layup, putting it out of bounds is the better option.

Agreed. What's ideal isn't always feasible.

[Jeffx]

....I think the general perception these days is that players from past are not as good as today's generation, as you can see many young people claim it so. Knowing that is probably why I am on defensive side when it comes to comparing legends and current players disccusion since people easily seem to diminish what past players achieved.

Exactly. But you and I know that perception is not reality, Zan. Any young cat who thinks Wilt, Russell, Oscar, West, Elgin, Havlicek couldn't play today's game isn't paying attention.

[Sauru]

a big thing that old time players had over current players is the desire to never stop. some of these legend players would not even take a play off let alone vanish for 4-5 minute stretches. bill russell was one of the smartest big men ever to think he could not play today is just stupid. also what people seem to forget is today the league is set up to help the offensive players where in the past the rules were made to limit the offense. what set of rules would they play with? what era? if they played with the rules from the 60'2 or 70's then 99% of the nba would get called for palming the ball every time they touched it

[benji]

40-50 years of sports medicine advances would do a lot for them.

[Sauru]

not to mention better travel methods and not having to deal with constant racism

[J@3]

It's better than swatting it right back to the other team under the basket, though, then it's not much different to biting on a pump fake.

If you can get it to a teammate, that's clearly the best option, but if you have to choose between putting it out of bounds, letting it go, or risking tapping it to an opponent for an uncontested layup, putting it out of bounds is the better option.

Agreed. What's ideal isn't always feasible.

That's like saying hitting a jump shot is better than missing one. Of course swatting the ball out of bounds is better than blocking it back to the other team... that's why you block it to a teammate, or even block it to yourself as some of the big white guys seem to do.

[Jeffx]

Like Sauru said, the old cats had a better understanding of the game. Who was smarter on the court than Bill Russell? He knew where you were going and what you were going to do. Oscar Robertson(who my dad says is better than Jordan) and Jerry West - there's nothing they couldn't do on the basketball court. Kareem had the most devastating weapon in NBA history.

I give today's players credit for their athletic skills, but the old guys were great athletes in their own right. Read about some of the things Wilt did when he played track & field - sick stuff. John Havlicek was drafted by the Celtics and the Cleveland Browns.