Agent Zero, Crittention - Draw guns over gambling?

RIP32- fans will be attending games/buying merchandise/watching games on tv regardless of the outcome of the Arenas situation... or for any other 'bad' behavior

Sprewell choked his coach and became a hero in nYK. heck i even forgot about the whole situation.

one of the NBA marquee players commits adultery/get accused of rape and he remains a star of the league/kept his huge endorsement deal

the public forgives/forgets so easily

Even Ray Lewis, who was accused of MURDER, was eventually let off the hook by the press

I just re-read about the Arenas suspension. I realised that he was suspended because Stern deemed him as 'not currently fit to take the court.' This was brought on by the pic that Andrew posted and recent behaviour and quotes. Just makes me agree even more with the suspension. Does Gilbert Arenas understand the seriosuness of this issue? Sure, there are times to joke around but this is not the time. He does deserve to be suspended and we will wait to see what happens in his talks with Stern as well as the authorities.

That's a fair point AG, it's something that Arenas can certainly bounce back from...with the right attitude. However, there are always going to be ramifications in the meantime. Sprewell lost his 1997/1998 season, Kobe did lose endorsement deals and Nike had to very slowly bring him back in advertisements (and when they did, there was still a bit of a backlash). It's a bit too soon for Arenas to put this one in the rear view mirror.

There's nothing unmerciful about saying that a person who broke the law is being punished accordingly.

'accordingly' is as subjective as it can get.

Driving through a red light is against the law too. Probably happens on a somehwat regular basis, unlikely to get anybody suspended though.

Driving through a red light is against the law too. Probably happens on a somehwat regular basis, unlikely to get anybody suspended though.

Probably because they aren't caught. Arenas was caught red-handed and is facing the consequences. By your reasoning, people being caught doing the wrong thing shouldn't face consequences because other people get away with stuff.

Arenas for sure can bounce back but the problem is can he stay out of trouble after this. You can't expect him to change because of this. By how he's handled what he did to this point it doesn't seem like it effecting him much. (Of course we don't know what happens behind the scenes)

I watching the cavs/wizards game now they need Arenas

I'm no fan of guns, but I think violence is worse than having an unloaded gun in your locker - especially in the context. So it doesn't make sense to me to suspend somebody indefinitely for that, which is a much heavier penalty than a player would receive for punching another player in the face. Also against the law. But usually people don't pay the highest price for that..

It's certainly not the same as him shooting someone or yes, punching someone on the court. But what he did was still incredibly stupid, if only because of DC's strict laws on concealed weapons. Beyond that, it certainly was a "misguided effort to play a joke" as Arenas himself described the incident.

I think a big fine, perhaps a couple of games suspension is worse enough. Arenas doesn't get a break though cause he's being set as an example.

And that probably would've been the case had he not gone and pulled the stunt in Philadelphia, something that the Wizards themselves have condemned. If he'd kept his mouth shut, taken the charges seriously and not pulled that nonsense in Philadelphia, Stern probably would've waited until the investigation had finished and made a ruling, as he'd be entitled to do as per the terms and conditions of NBA contracts.

The joke doesn't make any difference to me.

Btw I think the Wizards are very hypocritical, agreeing with this but before that they didn't do anything themselves. I think they have every right to pull him from the team so they could have done so in the first place. The Philly scene means absolutely nothing to me, and it shouldn't influence the outcome of a disciplinary measure imo.

Yeah Rip, what you're saying about the JR Smith suspension, I see that, but I disagree with that one too. That's exactly my point. Basketball suspensions should be about basketball misbehaviour and nothing else, imo.

Players under contract do not cease to be professional basketball players when they leave the court. They are still employed by their teams (and in effect, the NBA) so they must still abide by the rules and conditions set forth by their contracts and off-court incidents and legal issues come under that umbrella because it reflects badly on the team and the league. If Arenas or anyone else does not like the provisions of an NBA contract, they should seek another vocation. And again, it happened on company time, essentially in Arenas' place of work (just not on the court itself). It's very much an NBA issue, directly violating a policy that he has to comply with as per his contract and it's a serious legal issue to boot.

An example from another sport would be Michael Vick. Admittedly what he did was much, much worse but the NFL suspended him after he admitted his involvement and rightfully so. A professional sporting league has every right to set forth a code of conduct and refuse to condone illegal activity. There's too much at stake with sponsorship dollars, legal ramifications and simple PR for entities like the NFL or NBA not to take matters like this seriously.

Btw I do think it's wrong, he should be punished but not a whole season and more than that I'm amazed at how all of you seem to disagree so unmercifully.

As I said, he probably wouldn't have received that suspension if he didn't continue to act like an idiot. I think the reason most people in this thread are so "unmerciful" about it is that most of us feel that Arenas has been incredibly stupid and it's the latest in a long line of antics that have grown more annoying than entertaining...but most of all, it's the stupidity and lack of judgement he's shown. He's supposed to be the franchise player, after all; he's certainly being paid like one. If he's going to publicly clown around about a very serious issue then I don't blame the NBA for suspending him until, frankly, he grows up and learns to control himself. When Kobe was facing rape charges, you didn't see him pointing to the Laker girls and making pelvic thrusts and obsence gestures.

As far as the suspension is concerned, "indefinite" suggests the rest of the season but it may not. They could very easily lift it in two weeks or once the matter is resolved from a legal standpoint or an agreement is reached with Arenas/the player's union.[/quote]
A big part of this is legal mumbo jumbo, i.e. Stern is entitled bla bla, that's exactly what I mean by unmerciful. Zero tolerance kind of approach, going by the law, not what I expect as a response towards a quite harmless character. You say 'idiotic', I would call it silly.

The Kobe comparison is totally irrelevant. Nothing harmless or funny about a rape.

What Arenas did was self-mockery imo.

Which part of pulling a gun on someone is harmless?

Driving through a red light is against the law too. Probably happens on a somehwat regular basis, unlikely to get anybody suspended though.

Probably because they aren't caught. Arenas was caught red-handed and is facing the consequences. By your reasoning, people being caught doing the wrong thing shouldn't face consequences because other people get away with stuff.

No that's not true. He said: broke the law - face punishment, as a counter to my 'the punishment is too heavy'.

By that reasoning people who drive through red are fair game too, and I wonder how many games...? I mean it's the law!

I know you said it may turn out to become two weeks, but that doesn't change the ease with which some users say 'ah well, just ban him for a season'.

Bringing in 4 guns to an arena with 20,000 people. Unloaded or loaded is serious. Pointing it in a teammate's face could have led to all kinds of ugly scenes. Laughing it off as a joke the following day is what brought on the indefinite suspension. If Arenas acted his age for once, he'd still be suiting up for the team right now. I don't get what part of all this you don't understand Hedonist.

And perhaps someone from the States can answer this. If someone brought an unloaded gun into the work place and pointed it in a co-worker's face, would it be likely that the cops would be called and they're be fired on the spot? If yes, my point exactly. At least Arenas still has his job right now. Stop bitching.

Last edited by Fresh8 on Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

Which part of pulling a gun on someone is harmless?

Which part of the headline about the story have you read?

Which part of pulling a gun on someone is harmless?

Yea and where do you get silly from? If someone aimed a gun at your head and then told you they were just joking would you call that silly?

The joke doesn't make any difference to me.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your take. But to me it's extremely childish. I can't blame the NBA for drawing the line at that.

The Kobe comparison is totally irrelevant. Nothing harmless or funny about a rape.

It's not irrelevant, both situations involve an NBA player facing serious legal charges. No matter what the nature of those charges, childishly joking about it on the court (by the way, wouldn't that make it a basketball issue?) is a stupid course of action.

By that reasoning people who drive through red are fair game too, and I wonder how many games...? I mean it's the law!

If they're caught, absolutely. You get caught, you face the consequences. Those who don't get caught are obviously going to get away with it.

Bringing in 4 guns to an arena with 20,000 people. Unloaded or loaded is serious. Pointing it in a teammate's face could have led to all kinds of ugly scenes. Laughing it off as a joke the following day is what brought on the indefinite suspension. If Arenas acted his age for once, he'd still be suiting up for the team right now. I don't get what part of all this you don't understand Hedonist.

Seriously, if that's the case then how ridiculous is that? Basicly then you can get indefinitely suspended for having bad taste in humor. I understand it, but it's really stupid imo.

That's a fair point AG, it's something that Arenas can certainly bounce back from...with the right attitude. However, there are always going to be ramifications in the meantime. Sprewell lost his 1997/1998 season, Kobe did lose endorsement deals and Nike had to very slowly bring him back in advertisements (and when they did, there was still a bit of a backlash). It's a bit too soon for Arenas to put this one in the rear view mirror.

lol OF COURSE there will be ramifications. i think it goes without saying the press is going to rip him a new one for a bit...i think Tiger woods was on the front page of the new york post for 20 days in a row lmao....

even as the Bryant situation was going on, there were industry "insiders" already predicting his marketability will still be bankable

anywho i wasn't suggesting this thing is done for Arenas and that now he should be the spokesman for grills. i'm just saying the nba will continue to generate revenue/fans will spend regardless of what the outcome of this thing is

well at least for me. i'll still keep my nba league pass service

Which part of pulling a gun on someone is harmless?

Yea and where do you get silly from? If someone aimed a gun at your head and then told you they were just joking would you call that silly?

Wanna bet a million dollars that he didn't put a gun to his teammates head?

I'm going by his story, that he showed him the three guns and asked him which one because Crittenton had made a joke about shooting him in the kneecap.

Seriously, if that's the case then how ridiculous is that? Basicly then you can get indefinitely suspended for having bad taste in humor. I understand it, but it's really stupid imo.

Depends how that bad taste in humour manifests itself.

AG: Absolutely, I knew where you were coming from. I wouldn't expect anyone to stop watching over this (well, some might but most of us know better than that), for most people it'll just be eye-rolling and wondering when he's going to grow up/"get it".

Bringing in 4 guns to an arena with 20,000 people. Unloaded or loaded is serious. Pointing it in a teammate's face could have led to all kinds of ugly scenes. Laughing it off as a joke the following day is what brought on the indefinite suspension. If Arenas acted his age for once, he'd still be suiting up for the team right now. I don't get what part of all this you don't understand Hedonist.

Seriously, if that's the case then how ridiculous is that? Basicly then you can get indefinitely suspended for having bad taste in humor. I understand it, but it's really stupid imo.

That's the case in a nutshell. He was suspended because he kept continuing with his stupid behaviour. There's time and place for humour, even if this was a practical joke gone wrong, he should have known not to make fun of the situation because of the media spotlight as well as the fact that there is a police investigation into it. The league also does not want to send messages that they don't want to re: guns.

Bringing in 4 guns to an arena with 20,000 people. Unloaded or loaded is serious. Pointing it in a teammate's face could have led to all kinds of ugly scenes. Laughing it off as a joke the following day is what brought on the indefinite suspension. If Arenas acted his age for once, he'd still be suiting up for the team right now. I don't get what part of all this you don't understand Hedonist.

Seriously, if that's the case then how ridiculous is that? Basicly then you can get indefinitely suspended for having bad taste in humor. I understand it, but it's really stupid imo.

It's not bad taste in humor it's ilegal. I don't know about you but I don't consider pointing a gun at someone a joke. Loaded or not you don't do this.

Bringing in 4 guns to an arena with 20,000 people. Unloaded or loaded is serious. Pointing it in a teammate's face could have led to all kinds of ugly scenes. Laughing it off as a joke the following day is what brought on the indefinite suspension. If Arenas acted his age for once, he'd still be suiting up for the team right now. I don't get what part of all this you don't understand Hedonist.

Seriously, if that's the case then how ridiculous is that? Basicly then you can get indefinitely suspended for having bad taste in humor. I understand it, but it's really stupid imo.

It's not bad taste in humor it's ilegal. I don't know about you but I don't consider pointing a gun at someone a joke. Loaded or not you don't do this.

The thing is that Hedonist is mad because he was suspended. Gil was suspended for laughing at the matter (i.e. poor conduct), not for the matter itself. That really makes half the shit I said before semi-irrelevent.

He would have been eventually suspended anyway though. Hedonist i'm not going to try to convince you anymore because you obviously don't care what I say.

I wouldn't be suprised if you are Gilbert Arenas and are just pissed because you got suspended

He would have been eventually suspended anyway though. Hedonist.

Yes, pending these investigations.

And if he was suspended as a result, then all my past arguments become relevant again.

The story, as I understand it from what's been written:

Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Crittenton were playing cards, during which Arenas obviously lost more than he won and as such, ended up with a debt he had to settle, leading to some tensions when that didn't happen. If you really want to get into it then Arenas was acting poorly here as well, refusing to pay money that he owed which I'm sure most people would agree he's obliged to pay and the whole thing's kind of funny considering he's the highest paid player on the team (of course even if he was the lowest, he's obliged to settle gambling debts).

In response, Crittenton made reference to unpaid debts leading to people getting shot in the kneecaps. I wouldn't be surprised if he was half-joking, I doubt he had any intention of harming Arenas but the sentiment behind a remark like that is clear: in certain circles, you'd pay for this dearly; don't jerk me around. Probably not the best way to ask for money a teammate owes you but if Arenas was refusing to pay the debt and taunting Crittenton about it, he was probably frustrated and rightfully so.

Following that, Arenas produces handguns that he's stored in his locker and invites Crittenton to choose his weapon. Arenas' claim is that he was trying to diffuse the tension by joking around and I do buy that, however it was an incredibly stupid move and there's probably still a bit of taunting in that. Even putting aside the issues of taste and the seriousness of messing around with guns, loaded or not and no matter how serious or how much in jest it may be, it was a foolish thing to do because of NBA policy regarding guns in the locker room and DC's state laws regarding concealed weapons. Bottom line, it just wasn't a good idea to do what he did, even if he meant no serious harm (but again I think he may have been taunting Crittenton a little, albeit in an attempt to smooth things over). At the end of the day, he still has to take responsibility for that mistake.

The NBA and the Washington Wizards refrain from drastic disciplinary action as both entities and the players themselves co-operate with authorities in their investigations. That's absolutely fine. However, in the midst of everyone trying to handle the matter professionally and according to procedure, Arenas goes out and makes a mockery of the whole situation, on the court, for everyone to see (and with the Internet, you know everyone is going to see it). The NBA, trying to do the right thing in sorting out the mess that Arenas created, grows weary of his childish antics and suspends him to send a message: essentially, grow up. There is no set number of games players are suspended for this particular action, so it's listed as indefinite pending the outcome of the investigation and no doubt meetings with Arenas and the player's union.

Of course, "indefinite" does come across as meaning "the rest of the season" even though that's yet to be seen, which is certainly a harsh punishment that is not handed out every day. However, the thinking behind a harsh punishment is that it will be a deterrent and send a clear message of "Don't do this". A five year prison sentence and $250,000 fine is a steep maximum penalty for copying a DVD, for example, but it's done to try and persuade people not to do it. The success of those measures and the fairness of those fines is another debate altogether which we don't need to get in here but I feel it's an apt parallel. A slap on the wrist probably won't bother most people, more serious consequences will make people think twice about their actions and take proper responsibility. And that's what in indefinite suspension is, the NBA telling Arenas to grow up and clean up his act, to be a professional. It's not just about humour that's in bad taste or daring to have personality and certainly not race as the comments on Yahoo! NBA were suggesting. It's about taking serious matters...well, seriously.

In a nutshell:

• Arenas and Crittenton had a disagreement over a gambling debt Arenas refused to pay
• Frustrated, Crittenton made a remark about what happens to some people who don't pay their debts
• To diffuse the situation (and as I said, possibly to taunt him a little more), Arenas offers him a handgun to settle things, as it were.
• Aside from the issue of good taste, this action causes problems as it a) violates the NBA's policy on handguns and b) more importantly, violates state law
• All parties co-operate with authorities, who are still conducting investigations. The NBA and the Wizards refrain from taking action as they wait to see the outcome of those investigations.
• Arenas pulls a rather childish stunt before a game in Philadelphia which suggests he doesn't appreciate the seriousness of the matter, be it the legal ramifications or consequences with the league that has a strict code of conduct and policy on guns in place.
• The league is not amused by the display and given all that has happened so far, decides to send a message with an indefinite suspension, hoping that Arenas will "get it".

EDIT: I think this article pretty much sums up most of our feelings on the matter, though it does veer off into commentary on society/guns in general which is overkill.

It doesn't violate state law. D.C. is not a state. And considering Heller I would consider their laws to be in a state of limbo still due to their noncompliance with the ruling.

If Arenas was a serious person he'd let himself get charged for concealed carry and challenge the remaining draconian D.C. gun laws with some of that cash he got for sitting around the house for two years. At least then he could help some of his fellow citizens protect themselves instead of just running their team into the ground.

My mistake, obviously I'm not American so I used the wrong terminology there. I guess it would be more accurate to simply say that he broke the law or a law.