NBA Lottery

A scout said that James is the best high school basketball player since Lew Alcindor at Power in New York in 1965 (K. Abdul-Jabbar)

That's the problem cause that's the same thing they said about Felipe Lopez, so anyone playing at a top level in HS is the best player since Lew Alcindor now.

Show me where an NBA GM said he thinks Carmello is better....

Sorry, that's what they said not what they typed, there's no way you can see words coming out of their mouth. If you watched the Final Four, you would know better where those comments came from and I do know it was not silly Walton making those comments.

Ive got tons of ESPN Insiders on my HARD DRIVE with quotes from about 10-15 GMs that prove otherwise.

Ooops, is the Cav GM among those?, you can believe whatever you see others typed they heard, I know whatever I heard those saying it.

And what do you mean all you need is a consistant jumper to be better than someone

The question would be how can you think someone without a consistent jump shooting can be considered better than someone who has same abilities and better jump shooting?

that makes no sense.....stop talking about these kids as if they will be VETS next year.

No, you should stop making comments out of other people posts when nobody has said anything related to it. I never said they will be VETS next year or said they have to play like VETS. All I said and read it well, if you want to show you are the best player out of your draft, you better don't wait 7 years to try to prove it, they don't have to score 20 per game, they just have to be better than those who are rookies with them, nobody is talking about Veterans I already mentioned few HS guys who are the best players and were not the best out of their draft, that's the discussion here, LeBron is not the better out of that draft cause he still has to develop his game.

PEOPLE WORK ON THEIR GAMES. Who's to say Lebron wont develop a better J than Melo....and who is to say he is.

True. If you work on your game, that gives you the ability to become a better player, better than Melo, better than anyone, so what are you trying to say here?, that he'll become a better player?, nobody is saying he won't, you're getting a wrong thought from others posts, all we are saying is that there are 2 better choices, they have experience with bigger guys and have same possibilities of doing the great job LeBron is expected to do. LeBron might become the Greatest, I'm not arguing that, "LeBron is the better out of that draft", that's what you have to prove, not with quotes out of ESPN on any GM ---- but with the real game the guys can show, that's how Amare became the best out of last year draft, I don't have to keep posting the same thing over & over since you know that well in case you know the game.

Let's suppose the Cavs draft LeBron, you are asking for at least 4 years so the guy can become that great player, right?. In 3 years he's free agent. The guy is still developing his game while everyone else from that draft or at least those 2 already mentioned are kicking everyone's @$$#$.

LeBron as free agent decides to leave the Cavs and the Cavs just lost a terrific guy who is going to finish developing his game in other place. Was it worthy to draft a guy who needed 4 years to develop his game?, go ask Portland (O'Neal), Toronto (T-Mac) about all that. They drafted those and they didn't get their best while playing with their original teams. That's too much waiting, you are already a free agent in 3 years, meaning that whoever who took the chance to draft you out of HS, just lost the opportunity or have to spend more money on you when you didn't do anything there. You might sign up with someone else and over there you might become the best player of the league, I don't think it's so difficult for you to understand that since it sounds like you know the game, you have seen the cases explained already and know well what this is all about. Plus that's the reason why those other 2 should be better options.

I agree LeBron is going to be chosen number 1 but the situation was already explained there, just like the Wiz, Kwame has just one year left to prove himself, if not he'll be free agent and might have to leave the team, there the Wiz just lost the great 1st pick... And having that on mind regarding LeBron: If he wants to show he is the best out of that draft, he'd better come to the league kicking @$$#$ just like Amare did, he doesn't have to score 20 per game but he has to be the best rookie out of the draft by stats.

Dude you clearly said "I think he'll end up as a bust... "

"I think he'll end up a bust" is different than "He will be a bust," which is what you said I said.

Show me where an NBA GM said he thinks Carmello is better....

Ive got tons of ESPN Insiders on my HARD DRIVE with quotes from about 10-15 GMs that prove otherwise.

ESPN is showing only positive stuff about James because they made money off him with the televised basketball game...anything negative about him, save the national news in dealing with his fuckups, isn't on the site for that reason. Media is biased. If there's 10-15 quotes from GMs who say James is the best, then there's 14-19 GMs who didn't say that...which number is greater? Think about that one...

Okay Carmelo Anthony lead his team to a NCAA Title, that is pretty good, but many players have done so and it really has no worth towards their NBA careers.

But did they do it as a freshman? The number of players who did that can probably be counted up on two hands...

I just read several articles and interviews with Milicic, he believes he is comparable to Kevin Garnett (which no one is) but I understand what he means... But he says he is a better passer than Garnett (who averaged more than 5 assists per game and Milicic had 7 assists in 20 games), this is biting off more than he can chew. He points out time and again about his compition vs. the compitiion of James, again what does he know about any of the leagues and camps that James has been to. Michael Jordan calls LeBron James on the telephone, Does Divac or Peja even know this guy? I really believe if he were the greatest Yugoslavian player of all time at the age of 17, he'd be talking to Peja on the phone at some point, and the greatest 17 year old of all-time is what they call James.

OK, so Milicic is talking out his ass when you've never seen him play, but James is warranted for making comments like saying he'd win the NCAA championship if he went to college? MJ and Kobe and so on are calling James...so what? Did you ever think of cultural differences? Europe is NOT the United States, and odds are those players - namely MJ - have ulterior motives in contacting him early.

At 17 Darko Milicic hasn't been doing anything for a long time.

Except be one of the youngest most talented players in European basketball history...not to mention battling LaBron James, the Next God, for the number one draft pick....decent accomplishment for someone who most people don't know a damned thing about....

I am trying to say that the arguments that Milicic is seasoned and LeBron is so tender and a simple schoolboy, is just nuts.

But Milicic is seasoned and LeBron is tender and a schoolboy...he hasn't even had graduation yet! Milicic has been playing professionally...James hasn't played against anyone who challenged him (and don't say that's a testament as to how good he is, I say it's a testament as to how his chances of being a bust increase).

Milicic is 17 and that league is full of men, 95% of which will not play in the NBA. Will Not. Probably around 50% of the McDonald's All-Americans will. Not because they are in the USA, but because the they are the players selected from MILLLIONS of High School players. MILLIONS.

Um, what about all the former McDonald's All-Americans and former NBA players that are playing in Europe right now? That's not 95%, considering a great deal of the players are guys who were barely cut from NBA teams...

Like I said before, being a McDonald's All-American doesn't mean jack. There's tons of players who were All-Americans, they went to college, and they sucked against decent competition...and POOF...they disappeared.

Oh, as for James vs. Milicic...of course James would win, he's a guard, not a forward, therefore he's more mobile and more suited to a game of one on one...duh....

So you were assuming thats what they meant? Tsk tsk, try not to jump to conculsions, it may help your debating skills . And just becuase a player wins Rookie of the year doesn't mean he turned his team around. Look at Gasol, he was the best rookie, and he deservidly so won R.O.Y honours but his Grizzlies were still a bad team.

Well, if you read the sentence, 'rookie of the year' was one of the things people are saying James will be; I never said they said he'd be the savior of whatever team he lands at AND rookie of the year, I just said people are saying that...

How about you learn to read so I don't have to waste my time clarifying for you?

this whole statement is just playing with words so i may as well do likewise. A slump doesn't have to be a season long, it can be 5 or so games. So criteria B is void.

Wrong again! Here, try this: replace 'season' with 'a few games.' Viola! It still fits. The whole point was that you have to play an NBA game to have a slump...which he obviously missed. It wasn't me playing with words, it was me pointing out that many peopole thinks James has already accomplished things without stepping foot on an NBA court (save the Cavs court)...

lol, enlighten? Oh yeah, I forgot, you know more than everyone else

I never said I know more than everyone else, nor am I stating opinion as fact as other people on this board. However, flaws in logic (such as the slump thing) used in arguing something where silly mistakes can cause flame wars and smartass comments from dicks who aren't even really participating in the discussion, those who are only trying to get a rise out of one particular person, and corrections such as those will help to increase the quality of discussion on the board. You say I think I know more than everyone else? I've never said it, nor have I given the impression that I think I do. Just because I use things like 'logic' and have problems with people who write confusing and conflicting statements doesn't mean I think I'm smarter than everyone else...

Lol!! You sad cunt

Supposed to be a mod but is just a dick wrote

Wow, I wonder why you edited that? Hhehehe

Well, if you read the sentence, 'rookie of the year' was one of the things people are saying James will be; I never said they said he'd be the savior of whatever team he lands at AND rookie of the year, I just said people are saying that...

No one said he would be the saviour. You said he wouldnt, and then you said no rookie has turned around a team. Come on smart guy, dont twist around what you said. lol im still laughing at you

Wrong again! Here, try this: replace 'season' with 'a few games.' Viola! It still fits. The whole point was that you have to play an NBA game to have a slump...which he obviously missed.

Hmm

2. Has a good season, then has a worst season

According to your logic, he has to have a season and then have a worse season to be in a slump which is not true at all. You can through a smaller slump which only lasts 5 or 6 games.

It wasn't me playing with words, it was me pointing out that many peopole thinks James has already accomplished things without stepping foot on an NBA court (save the Cavs court)...

Hmm, no player who is enterting this years draft has played in the nba, so you using that as a "reason" for why Lebron James isn't as good as Darko Or Carmelo Anthony is, um, ilogical.

I never said I know more than everyone else, nor am I stating opinion as fact as other people on this board. However, flaws in logic (such as the slump thing) used in arguing something where silly mistakes can cause flame wars and smartass comments from dicks who aren't even really participating in the discussion, those who are only trying to get a rise out of one particular person, and corrections such as those will help to increase the quality of discussion on the board

Lol now that sounds like a grudge! heh What all that has to do with this discussion is beyond me. Tsk tsk, stay on the topic, please

You say I think I know more than everyone else? I've never said it, nor have I given the impression that I think I do. Just because I use things like 'logic' and have problems with people who write confusing and conflicting statements doesn't mean I think I'm smarter than everyone else...

When you say you have to "enlighten" people by usuing your logic, it does make you look like you think you more than them. That your knowledges is far superior to theirs, in your expert opinion. lol but its obvious you are incredibly imature, and this is evident by calling names. Really, that makes you look like a tool and i was laughing at you (and i still am ) not with you.

Wow, I wonder why you edited that? Hhehehe

Because you're not a mod...just calling you 'dick' isn't remotely clever...

No one said he would be the saviour. You said he wouldnt, and then you said no rookie has turned around a team. Come on smart guy, dont twist around what you said. lol im still laughing at you

*sigh* Sure they did, I'm not talking about in this discussion, I'm talking about people in general. And saying that no rookie has ever turned around a team is the same as saying they're not the savior....no? Why are you laughing? What I typed was clear...

According to your logic, he has to have a season and then have a worse season to be in a slump which is not true at all. You can through a smaller slump which only lasts 5 or 6 games.

If a lottery pick plays a single game, barring injury, he'll have an entire season. You said I was twisting words when I wasn't, and I proved all you had to do was substitute what you said into what I said and it would still follow suit. I was thinking more along the lines of 'sophomore slumps'...

Hmm, no player who is enterting this years draft has played in the nba, so you using that as a "reason" for why Lebron James isn't as good as Darko Or Carmelo Anthony is, um, ilogical.

Honestly, are you daft? I said people are saying all the things James might accomplish like he already has done them when the reality is that he's never played an NBA game. How is what I'm typing not clear to you? Oh, I never said that LeBron James isn't as good as Anthony or Darko...I just said they're probably better picks in the long run...read my posts instead of looking for mistakes, and you'll see that I said several times that James is probably the most talented of the three...

Lol now that sounds like a grudge! heh What all that has to do with this discussion is beyond me. Tsk tsk, stay on the topic, please

Are you being a smartass right now? Yes. Are you being a dick right now? Yes. Are you putting in little things that have nothing to do with the discussion directed at me? Yes, you are. Now, who should stay on topic? I wrote a couple books on this...you made smartass comments...now who's contributing what?

When you say you have to "enlighten" people by usuing your logic, it does make you look like you think you more than them.

Did I say "MY" logic? No...I said logic...as in Logos, as in the thing Aristotle came up with when he was writing the rules of rhetoric...and by them you must mean you, because you're the only person on this board who calls me a know it all and makes fun of my use of logic....might you have something against me?

That your knowledges is far superior to theirs, in your expert opinion. lol but its obvious you are incredibly imature, and this is evident by calling names. Really, that makes you look like a tool and i was laughing at you (and i still am ) not with you.

I never claimed to be an expert and I constantly tell people not to state their opinions as facts and I try to watch myself, although I don't always catch the mistakes...I'm immature? I think not, my misinformed Australian "friend." I've heard many a 'mature' person call people dicks or assholes or cunts (which I never said)...why do they do it? Because the people ARE dicks or assholes or cunts or bitches; they aren't nice people and take pleasure in causing problems for others. I may have called you names, but if you look at the words surrounding the names, they're nothing more than smartass comments which you seem to enjoy.

Laughing at me? I'm not laughing, and you probably aren't either...I hope not, because if you are, you're a dork for taking a message board so seriously...

...now, before you start in with your 'but you're calling someone on a message board an asshole, you're taking it seriously' bullshit...well, I don't take it seriously. But you ARE an asshole...remember when we used to talk on MSN, before the whole Aussieland thing where you thought Austrailians were a race? You know, where you made yourself look like an imbecile...I'm sure you remember...well, before that whole thing, I knew you were an asshole from the stories you told me and from your posting style...the only difference was that you were an asshole who liked me. Now that you don't like me, you look for every possible way to annoy me....I rarely post on this board, and this is the first topic I've posted more than twice on in over a month...and guess who happens to show up? You say I have a grudge (weird you say that, because I said nothing about you having a grudge or me having a grudge), well, it looks a bit different...

Now, how about you shut up and talk about basketball like the nice, mature, smart, young man you think you are? I'll gladly get back to the topic, as I've already discussed it at length. The question is, can you mature and take part like a human being?

Thread has to be locked if the flaming continues. Lets just have a debate/discussions without flames..shall we buds?

All i gotta say is dont hop on the bandwagon. When he's an all-star....i want you to keep saying you "think" he will be a bust.

And I will keep saying that....

Here's an idea, keep ignoring my statement about James potential and talent is far beyond the others, but his expectations are huge and the fact he's had off court problems already make the likeliness of him being a bust that much greater than Anthony or Milicic. If you can't understand that, whatever, but I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon of someone who hasn't done anything yet...

The man took some jerseys for free and now he has OFF THE COURT PROBLEMS??

Thats one INCIDENT.

Your talking about him like he's Allen Iverson

OK, think about this: he gets some free jerseys. That's violating rules. And he doesn't even MAKE millions yet, and he knows he's above the law because of that incident. Now, give him a couple million, girls everywhere, drugs everywhere, and the maturity of a 19 year old. What's he gonna do? What choices is he going to make? His parents aren't exactly good role models, so who's he going to learn the right NBA practices from?

The odds that he will have trouble off the court are great if he's already made two mistakes before he's even in the NBA...

Considering he gave the Jerseys back once he found out it was against the rules, I doubt Lebron will turn to drugs or anything illegal just becuase he is in the NBA and making millions. Who cares if he cops roots of women. Wilt Chamberlin did and that didnt effect his on the court performance. Stop trying to find stupid excuses as to why he shouldnt be the number 1 pick.

The odds that he will have trouble off the court are great if he's already made two mistakes before he's even in the NBA

Lol, a whole two mistakes? I wonder how many hail mary's he will have to say. My goodness.. oh yeah the jerserys were one mistake, whats the second one? Him being the best high school player ever?

The hummer is the second one, and Shane wasn't talking about mistakes like serving Pepsi instead of Coca Cola, these are violations of the rules he was under...

The Hummer was investigated but he wasn't punished for that, so there was only one violation. Just becuase he accepted some jerseys dosnt mean he will get involved with drugs.

Like I said before, its stupid to use a hypothetical question to try and lower lebrons draft positioning.

Everyone knows wearing basketball jerseys leads to things like drugs. There is no way he can steer clear now. He may aswell demand a trade to the Blazers.

Are you guys daft? I didn't say 'free basketball jerseys lead to drugs,' I said 'this shows he's already violated rules.' It's ingrained in every athletes mind that they cannot accept gifts of any sort in high school and college otherwise they lose eligibility. I know Matthew and Clinton are from Austrailia and don't know that, but Pierce probably is from the US and should.

Don't tell me James 'didn't know' he couldn't accept jerseys as a gift, especially when he gives signed pictures in return. He knows about the rules of the NBA draft and what not and toyed with the idea of college....I'm positive that he knew he was breaking rules. He either figured he wouldn't get caught, and if he did, he'd get a slap on the wrist - which is exactly what happened.

The point is that he already knows he's above the rules that apply to everyone else at the high school and college level; what's going to make him think that he isn't above the law when he's making millions? Rich people don't always attract the best crowd, look at Iverson's posse.

My point is that because of him already breaking rules, the chance that he's going to do it when he's rich increase drastically. Why do you think players like Lamar Odom's stock dropped in the draft? Because of off the court problems - and they were obviously warranted. Granted, James were problems of a different sort, but he completely got away with it.

Like I said before, its stupid to use a hypothetical question to try and lower lebrons draft positioning.

I'm not trying to lower Lebron James' draft position; there's no way I can have any impact on that whatsoever. However, you guys asked for reasons as to why I think he'll be a bust, and I gave you my reasons. Everything in this discussion is hypothetical, Matthew. How he'll turn out, where he'll be drafted, who he'll be better than...everything...so don't bag on me when I answer a question.

OK, think about this: he gets some free jerseys. That's violating rules. And he doesn't even MAKE millions yet, and he knows he's above the law because of that incident. Now, give him a couple million, girls everywhere, drugs everywhere, and the maturity of a 19 year old. What's he gonna do? What choices is he going to make? His parents aren't exactly good role models, so who's he going to learn the right NBA practices from?

Come on man you're sterotyping him hear.

What about Lebron gives you this theory? Because i seriously hope you are NOT basing this on the two jerseys that were GIVEN to him by the store owner...and in some states that wouldnt have even violated anything. Ohio's HS Athletic Association is one of the more strict in the US.

Knowing the dude personally....he may get into some girls...but DRUGS??? Never....


And Lamar Odom had off the court PROBLEM.


Lebron had one INCIDENT. Has nothing to do with his character. The typical teenage male will accept two jerseys (especially in this era) if they are offered to you by the OWNER of them.

The Hummer absolutely was nothing. The OHHSA was just simply nitpicking with that one...and when the proper documents were provided about the purchase of the Hummer....they quickly backed off. What bank wouldnt give LEBRON JAMES' mother a loan? They know it'll will be paid...if not they're idiots.

Lebron had one INCIDENT. Has nothing to do with his character. The typical teenage male will accept two jerseys (especially in this era) if they are offered to you by the OWNER of them

It has everything to do with character. It's a violation of rules, and if James willingly did that (I'm sure he did, because the jerseys were after the hummer incident, so he was well aware of the rules of the Ohio athletics), then that's a character flaw, no? He jeopordized his high school career because he was stupid. What makes you think he won't do that when he's making millions? How are you so stupid to not see that simple point that I've made a million times?

Just because you 'know' him (which I somehow don't believe...) doesn't mean you KNOW him. I don't know him either, but based on his activities, I can safely say that the probablity that he'll fuck up in the future are much more likely than Anthony or Milicic doing the same simply because they haven't HAD anything like this happen to them. Sheesh...

Dude i can care less if you believe or not....im not trying to impress you man. This is the NET. You are no one to me.

You are no one to me.

And that's the problem.

You feel like you can continue this discussion as long as you want, because you feel like you're arguing with 'no one'. That's also why you fail to even try and see the points that are made.

wtf does snootchie boochies mean

It's a quote from the movie Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. Whether it actually has a real meaning, I can't say.

That particluar quote is from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, but Snootchie Boochies is from the first Kevin Smith movie, Clerks.

Rens, your post covers many posters....

You feel like you can continue this discussion as long as you want, because you feel like you're arguing with 'no one'. That's also why you fail to even try and see the points that are made

No actually i can continue this discussion because its a message board. And the point is to post messages.

No actually i can continue this discussion because its a message board. And the point is to post messages.

Um...no. This is called a forum; this is a discussion board. The point is not to 'post messages,' it's to "discuss topics. (A. Begley, MSN)" Now, if the point was simply to post messages for, say, post count, there wouldn't be rules against spamming. Also, people wouldn't have discussions, they'd just post random things.

The reason you chirped into this whole DISCUSSION topic was to DISCUSS the TOPIC, and you put time and effort into this post, so you didn't post just for the sake of posting, like, say Matthew did, in this particular topic.

That being said, your comment was contradicting your previous actions.

Lol, I love your assumptions, especially when you're wrong, they make you look like a "pompous ass"

I didn't post just for the sake of posting, I posted becuase I didn't agree with what some people said. Yes I disagreed with what some people said, but, just becuase I didn't agree with them doesn't mean i wasn't discussing a topic.

Seriously, are you "daft"? Just look at the thread, and then say how I didn't contribute to the discussion. You were the one who attempted to change the discussion, so if you want to accuse me of "posting for the sake of posting", look in the mirror first. Heheh, you "dolt".

Lol, I love your assumptions, especially when you're wrong, they make you look like a "pompous ass"

My assumptions? What made you think I was talking about you? Just cause I said "matthew" doesn't mean I'm refering to you...although in this instance, I was.

Also, don't mock me...

I didn't post just for the sake of posting, I posted becuase I didn't agree with what some people said. Yes I disagreed with what some people said, but, just becuase I didn't agree with them doesn't mean i wasn't discussing a topic.

Where did I say anything about anything in that paragraph, save the 'sake of posting' thing? When does disagreeing have anything to do with that? Disagreements cause discussion...which is what we want. If we didn't disagree, there wouldn't be discussion because everyone would have the same view...duh...

Seriously, are you "daft"? Just look at the thread, and then say how I didn't contribute to the discussion. You were the one who attempted to change the discussion, so if you want to accuse me of "posting for the sake of posting", look in the mirror first. Heheh, you "dolt".

I never said you didn't contribute to the discussion...I said you posted for the sake of posting, and you did. "Wait," you say? Well, your whole "you're an argumentative person" was posted for the sake of posting it (or, as it was probably intended, to start a flame war), and it did nothing but DETRACT from the discussion.

Here's one last thing: I have a large vocabulary, and I use it whenever I want. However, I don't always use it because people like you accuse me of trying to sound smart, and I don't want people to think I think I'm better than them. If you actually knew me, you'd know this is true.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't mock my occasional use of words that are more flattering than 'stupid,' 'moron,' and the like...or would you rather I used four letter expletives for you? I can do either...but since I'm asking you to stop making fun of that facet of my posting style, consider that a warning...

If you want to make fun of me for that, make fun of Eugene, Dr. P, DRESPN, and Yohance (when he feels like using it ) for using words that aren't in common conversation.