Kobe Wins MVP

[Oznogrd]

people still trying to say that kobe has better supporting cast than chris paul but it's certainly not true

there is no other way to support any claim in basketball other than stats. 82games is a stats site, you cant really argue with it.

[benji]

I love how Kobe fans have to denigrate the Lakers endlessly in order to back their man.

[buckslayer]

kobe is my favorite player and it is no question why he won it. he was definitely the best player in the league. does anybody wanna know why CP3 didnt win it? because he didnt lead his team to first place in the west! his team didnt sweep in the first round of the playoffs. i like chris paul but kobe has had this comin to him. he deserved it more than paul.... 12 seasons and not 1 mvp!!!!!!!!!!???????? and his finger is fractured and has torn ligaments and he still led the lakers to the top spot in the west!!! kobe is the greatest player in the world and i guarantee everybody here that he could beat any player one-on-one....... no question!!!!!!!!!! cp3 or lebron will win it next year but cp3 has a long career ahead of him and kobe's is runnin short. he won it fair and square and nobody should argue over the fact that he has officially been named MVP and nobody can do anything about it.......

[benji]

Why am I doing this...

does anybody wanna know why CP3 didnt win it? ... his team didnt sweep in the first round of the playoffs.

So a playoff series that happened after the voting, is a basis for a regular season award?

he deserved it more than paul.... 12 seasons and not 1 mvp!!!!!!!!!!????????

So, the MVP is no longer decided by the season it is awarded in, but is instead some sort of career honor now?

he won it fair and square and nobody should argue over the fact that he has officially been named MVP and nobody can do anything about it.......

Right, just because a player is given an award by the media it doesn't mean anything about that player...

[BigKaboom2]

Lulz.

Edit: (imo)

[Bruce]

I think CP3 lost out because of the following reasons:

1. He has only been in the league for 3 yrs.
2. This is the first year to deserve the MVP award, Kobe has had multiple times.
3. The last time people voted a player with 20+pts 12+asts as MVP did convert in to much success in the post season. (Yes I am talking about Nash). Even though CP3 plays superior defense that Nash.


I really hated the two times Nash was awarded MVP. I am not saying that I hate people who who pass 12+ assists a game, but if that is how a team runs its offense, dynamic as the offense maybe, it is easier to predict the offense, because you know who to shut down. And that is why I think it was easy for the spurs to shut down the Suns offense in the playoffs during the year Nash was MVP. Mostly, what they did was watch where Nash was going to pass the ball.

[benji]

The last time people voted a player with 20+pts 12+asts as MVP did convert in to much success in the post season. (Yes I am talking about Nash).

Except for the fact that Nash has never averaged 20+ ppg. Only two players have averaged 20+ ppg and 11+ apg and won MVP. Magic Johnson in 1986-87, 1988-90, and Oscar Robertson in 1963-64.

He has only been in the league for 3 yrs.

This is the first year to deserve the MVP award, Kobe has had multiple times.

So again, the MVP award is no longer relevant to the season in question and is instead to be used to award career achievement. And apparently there is a "years in the league" requirement before you can be the leagues most valuable player.

Kobe won the MVP award because the media convinced itself that Kobe must have been having his greatest season ever since the Lakers were winning, since they're apparently rubes who don't understand there were other players on the team. And because the media devours its own narratives as "reality" and can't help but vote for "stories" to explain what they don't or can't understand. (see: Turkoglu MIP, etc.)

Any argument against why Paul shouldn't have won, is not an argument for Kobe to win.

[Kbryant8]

oh lol.

[MANIPON]

Paul..hyped. That's it. The reason why you hate Kobe is because your favorite player can't do what Kobe can do. The ballhog thing is so 4 years ago..Kobe is the best. No arguments.

[MANIPON]

Chris Paul will not win an MVP trophy until he retires. LeBron might win 1. But they will never be champions for sure. The new Karl Malone and John Stockton but from two different teams.

[benji]

I love how Kobe fanatics not only denigrate the Lakers team, but they also constantly fall back on saying "you hate Kobe because your favorite player is worse" and "Kobe is the best, there cannot be an argument." They also seem to feel like they need to insult Chris Paul and LeBron James personally to make themselves feel better.

I'm still waiting for the evidence from someone that Kobe deserved the MVP award for what he did this season. If there is a reason Kobe deserved it, then make the case, don't just declare "no arguments" and insult everyone.

[BigKaboom2]

The evidence is that extremely silly people vote on it and thus it shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Matt]

or any other award....only one thing that matters, Championship.

[Matthew]

So do you think Luc Longley had a better career then Hakeem?

[Sauru]

clearly, no one even remembers Hakeem anyway, Longley will live on forever

[Bruce]

clearly, no one even remembers Hakeem anyway, Longley will live on forever

I not quite sure about that statement. I'm torn between Will Perdue and Bil Wennington.

[BIG GREEN]

Chris Paul will not win an MVP trophy until he retires. LeBron might win 1. But they will never be champions for sure. The new Karl Malone and John Stockton but from two different teams.

...are all pinoys retarded or something?..jesus christ

[Matthew]

Can't you see the similarities between Malone and James?

[-Young Buck-]

Im starting to wonder why people think Lebron was an MVP candidate. He has a great supporting cast, yet his team doesnt seem so great. When he cant hit jumpers, all he does is drive to the lane, get hit, and let the refs put him at the line, where he is an average shooter. Hey if i was as big, and athletic as him it would be easy to drive to the lane through people getting fouls, dunks, and getting rebounds. Meanwhile Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant play brilliantly to keep their teams in the series.

[Matthew]

Stop stating the obvious OH MI GOD

[benji]

Meanwhile Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant play brilliantly to keep their teams in the series.

Regular season award, sorry.

Im starting to wonder why people think Lebron was an MVP candidate. He has a great supporting cast,

Wait. What? The 30-8-7 with Ilgauskas being the only non 6-2 three point bomber who did anything of use over the entire season probably had something to do with it.

[Patr1ck]

If your looking for the ongoing off topic discussion, you can now find it here.

http://www.nbaliveforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=57225

[GoHornets]

Thanks Pdub

[benji]

The rest of the thread that was moved.

So, the MVP is no longer decided by the season it is awarded in, but is instead some sort of career honor now?

In this situation, it kinda was. They gave it to him because hes been MVP worthy his whole career and the media wanted to give him one before Lebron and Paul

I love how Kobe fanatics not only denigrate the Lakers team, but they also constantly fall back on saying "you hate Kobe because your favorite player is worse" and "Kobe is the best, there cannot be an argument." They also seem to feel like they need to insult Chris Paul and LeBron James personally to make themselves feel better.

I'm still waiting for the evidence from someone that Kobe deserved the MVP award for what he did this season. If there is a reason Kobe deserved it, then make the case, don't just declare "no arguments" and insult everyone.

you really love it?..

i think you should go watch nba on tv to see it for yourself..don't rely on nba live that much..

Yes, I do love it. I love ad hominem and other evidence of lacking logically valid arguments.

But what if I watched the NBA on TV and saw Chris Paul being the MVP? Or Darko Milicic? What if I watched the NBA in person and saw these things?

When did "watch it and you will see" suddenly become an acceptable form of argument? Or declaring "no arguments" as the only support of your claims? Or calling people haters or "kids"?

Is the case for Kobe as MVP so lacking that it is near impossible to come up with one without making things up or demanding no argument?

- MVP numbers: 28.3 PPg / 6.3 RPG / 5.4 APG / 1.8 SPG / .45% FG / .36% 3PTFG

- not far away from career highs in RPG, 3PTFG, SPG, 3PT FG Made

- 82 games played, 82 games started, 38 MPG

- Lakers had the best regular season record

These are some pretty good arguments you just have to accept considering the MVP selection. I am no Kobe fan. I would have loved to see CP3 taking home the trophy. But you cannot really argue with the fact that Kobe now has one in his showcase.

And Benji as you always say. It is an award that is determined by the media. So why even care about "arguments" as the media is surely not only resorting to "convincing arguments".

- Lakers had the best regular season record in West

That´s more like it, they didn´t have the best regular season record, Boston and Detroit beat them. (if I´m remember right then New Orleans was only 1 win away of them)

Sorry, thats what I wanted to say

But you cannot really argue with the fact that Kobe now has one in his showcase.

Someone was arguing that Kobe didn't win the MVP?

And Benji as you always say. It is an award that is determined by the media. So why even care about "arguments" as the media is surely not only resorting to "convincing arguments".

I don't care about the media arguments, I'd like to know the arguments from the people who agree with the medias conclusions.

- MVP numbers: 28.3 PPg / 6.3 RPG / 5.4 APG / 1.8 SPG / .45% FG / .36% 3PTFG
- not far away from career highs in RPG, 3PTFG, SPG, 3PT FG Made
- 82 games played, 82 games started, 38 MPG

But Kobe has had better seasons no? And Paul and LeBron had better seasons this year.

- Lakers had the best regular season record

The Lakers are a team, not Kobe Bryant.

These are some pretty good arguments you just have to accept

Is that the "you just have to accept it" argument again? The best part of the argument was "82 games played at 38 minutes per game."

I share the same "argument" as the media people that voted for Bryant.

I like him more.

now..you can shut up..the others are gone..

bye-bye lebron..bye-bye paul!

The Most Valuable Player award is for the regular season only. This has already been pointed out once in this thread and it honestly should be common knowledge to someone who claims to watch the NBA.

Does that mean, if the Celtics win the championship, KG was the regular season MVP? If Pistons win, was it Billups? If Spurs, Duncan?

MOST VALUABLE PLAYER. Look for the meaning of these three words..put them together as a whole and you will find your answer. It's a regular season award but it not ends right there.

We all know that this is just a regular season award. But do you think that you will just take it as that? (especially the players)..the post-season is the best way to prove that regular season award..hahaha..you losers..

Why was Kobe the most valuable player during the regular season?

The Lakers are a team, not Kobe Bryant.

Yeah, but after years of MVP discussions you should know that the team`s success is a base for this award. That is just a fact. And just because you don't think it should be considered, everybody else won't do so.

So LeBron is pretty much out. So now I want to know why you think CP3 deserved it over KB24 ?

But team success isn't and should never be the only or even a majority base. The Lakers were only one game better than the Hornets and Spurs, worse than the Pistons and Celtics. Only beat out Suns and Rockets by two games. So the Lakers finishing first isn't much of a big deal, a one game change and they could have been as low as sixth.

Why is LeBron pretty much out? Should we ignore that pretty incredible season he had?

So now I want to know why you think CP3 deserved it over KB24 ?

Who said I did? I still want to know why Kobe deserves it over anyone else without a one game lead in the standings by his team being the primary case in favor.

Since you keep wanting to go back to the media's decision making process, and since a lot of people agreed, why did Kobe win this year, but not in the last two seasons? He didn't really change anything. The Lakers just had a better team.

but benji the media was hooked on foreign white guys the last few years, kobe had to wait his turn, didnt you know that?

LeBron is pretty much out when you consider the Cavs inconsistent season with a weaker record than the other teams of the top MVP candidates.

You know, I think the MVP should go to the best player. The player that heaves his team on a level they would not be able to land without him.
So LeBron would be the logical choice.

But Ive accepted that this is not the point for those who vote for the MVP take into consideration. Supporting cast is actually not even a lil bit important.
It is not important wether your team mates are named Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Delonte West or Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. They just do not care about it. The record seems to cover up everything that is important.

Kobe did not win it the last two years because the Lakers were struggling although he was playing very well. Dirk and Nash were surely not the most valuable players the last three seasons (maybe Nash in his first year - just a new Suns era), but they were the go-to-guys or franchise players or just leaders on top teams with top records.

If this award would go to the Most Valuable Player, what it should do, LeBron should have won it the last three or four seasons. Thats my word.

Now you've got it, I don't care what the media thinks, or that Kobe actually won. I'm interested in what forumers think. That is why I post here instead of being hypercritical and contradictionist in the ESPN offices.

There is a serious case for Kobe, but nobody seems interested in providing it. All we get are memes and being told not to argue. The media (columnists at least, who only a few get to vote) did the same thing all season, declaring Kobe to be better, this the year he deserved it, etc. al. without ever telling us why he was better or deserving. I mean, it takes a LeBron supporter to actually try and defend Kobe, or to make a rational argument in his favor.

I'll do it. But not right now. Post will be edited if nobody posts after.

[---]

Im starting to wonder why people think Lebron was an MVP candidate. He has a great supporting cast

I stopped reading right there.

And by the way, of the teams that qualified for the playoffs...

EAST

Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo
Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince, Richard Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace Antonio McDyess, Jason Maxiell
Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, Jameer Nelson
LeBron James, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Joe Smith, Delonte West, Daniel Gibson, Anderson Varejao
Andre Iguodala, Andre Miller, Samuel Dalembert, Thaddeus Young, Louis Williams
Gilbert Arenas*, Caron Butler, Antawn Jamison, Deshawn Stevenson
Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby, Al Horford
Chris Bosh, TJ Ford, Jose Calderon, Andrea Bargnani

WEST

Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum*, Trevor Ariza
Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson, Kenyon Martin, Nene*, JR Smith, Marcus Camby
Chris Paul, David West, Tyson Chandler, Peja Stojakovic, Julian Wright
Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Kidd, Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Josh Howard
Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Shaquille O'Neal, Leandro Barbosa, Boris Diaw, Raja Bell
Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Michael Finley, Brent Barry, Bruce Bowen
Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming*, Carl Landry, Luis Scola, Shane Battier
Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur, Ronnie Brewer, Adrei Kirilenko, Paul Millsap

I'll say this right now - LeBron has the worst supporting cast of any team that made the playoffs this year. He made it to the second round and tested the Celtics in round two. He made the finals last year. The way he carries that sad excuse for a team is nothing short of amazing.

You put a guy like Shane Battier or Raja Bell on the Cavaliers and he looks alot better than he is. Varejao, Gibson, Smith, West - they're all bench players. Ilguaskas is a starting center but a pretty poor one at that. For this team to make the playoffs and test the Celtics like they did was a major overachievement in my opinion - orchestrated by LeBron James.