Payton for allen?

Watching Brent Barry drop 11 assist in the 1st Half tonight..Yeah He Will be the PG most likely, even though he stated at half time "I don't know how G did this for 12 years." Talking about playin the point.

I might be wrong, but the size of Thomas is not anymore to play SF. He should be playing PF instead, so no reason to leave the team.

Thomas is a small forward. He plays the game of a small forward and has the body to play small forward. Just because he is tall he shouldn't be starting at PF. He can't defend power forwards.

It's a good point but I don't think the Nets will let Kidd leave.

Like Ben said, they have no say in the matter.

He plays the game of a small forward and has the body to play small forward. Just because he is tall he shouldn't be starting at PF. He can't defend power forwards.

His body is not of a PF I do understand that. But I didn't say he will be starting as anything, he actually sucks and I would use Mason starting, the size doesn't matter that's right but when you use Mason 6'8" to guard these 7 footer PF, his muscles would be the only diff. thing on favor, not his size, he can push and push, the others would just throw over his head, that's what I meant I would use a bigger size to guard PF.

Like Ben said, they have no say in the matter.

Actually, like I said, they won't let him leave. When you become a free agent, I don't know if you knew, the team for whom you were playing has the right to resign you, right?. I don't think Kidd will leave NJ, do you have any ideas where would he go? or any reason for NJ not to resign him?, I do understand that he might reject NJ offer, but NJ has the rights to match any offer from other teams as well, so I don't see why he wouldn't play for the Nets next year, if you think he will leave, you can try to find him a place that would make him happier than NJ and tell me which is that.

In NJ he's shooting, passing, stealing, doing it all. In no other place he will be doing that. I meant not other place. He was playing for the Suns, and while he was there, even Stoudamire was better than him, cause he was around all stars, he needs to play with these kids who are not that great and he makes them look like all stars.

When you become a free agent, I don't know if you knew, the team for whom you were playing has the right to resign you, right?.

Well there you go. You learn a new thing everyday. I'm glad your such an expert so you can give everyone else these useful facts.

if you think he will leave, you can try to find him a place that would make him happier than NJ and tell me which is that.

How do you know is so happy in NJ and how do you know he wouldn't be equally happy anywhere else.

In NJ he's shooting, passing, stealing, doing it all. In no other place he will be doing that.

Jason Kidd would do that wherever he went. That's just an idiotic comment to say that Kidd can only do what he does in NJ.

He was playing for the Suns, and while he was there, even Stoudamire was better than him

He never played with the Suns while Stoudamire was there.

Well there you go. You learn a new thing everyday. I'm glad your such an expert so you can give everyone else these useful facts.

Well, you did say they don't have a say in that matter, just wanted to show you they do. Sorry if I offended you with that, but few more facts always can be usefull.

How do you know is so happy in NJ and how do you know he wouldn't be equally happy anywhere else.

He said that he is happy there, he said that there he found his home, not me.

That's just an idiotic comment to say that Kidd can only do what he does in NJ.

Idiotic are the stats clinton, if you see them you will know that. Plus, he was never considered to be voted as MVP playing for Dallas or Suns.

He never played with the Suns while Stoudamire was there.

hmmmm, I would agree that you can confuse things, but if you can confuse something, you might as well understand other things. When I said even Stoudamire was better than him back to that time, you should understand I was talking about a PG, not a rookie. I did mean Stoudamire which is Damon not Amare Stoudemire. So, I would agree you might confuse the last names, but not the positions they play, cause obviously I was comparing them cause of the position they play.

Actually, like I said, they won't let him leave.

They don't have a say.

When you become a free agent, I don't know if you knew, the team for whom you were playing has the right to resign you, right?.

No, the player has the right to resign or sign elsewhere.

I don't think Kidd will leave NJ, do you have any ideas where would he go?

San Antonio

but NJ has the rights to match any offer from other teams as well

No, it doesn't.

so I don't see why he wouldn't play for the Nets next year, if you think he will leave, you can try to find him a place that would make him happier than NJ and tell me which is that.

San Antonio.

In NJ he's shooting, passing, stealing, doing it all. In no other place he will be doing that. I meant not other place.

He can shoot, pass, steal, whatever, no matter where he goes.

He was playing for the Suns, and while he was there, even Stoudamire was better than him, cause he was around all stars, he needs to play with these kids who are not that great and he makes them look like all stars.

He wasn't playing with any All-Stars in Phoenix.

he isn't playing with any all-stars in new jersey

No, the player has the right to resign or sign elsewhere.

Right but still you have no reason that shows why he should leave.

but NJ has the rights to match any offer from other teams as well
No, it doesn't.

Yes, they do, haven't you seen that before?

He wasn't playing with any All-Stars in Phoenix.

Gugliotta, C. Robinson, Penny, McDyess, Manning. At that moment, any of those were way much better or were playing much better than what his currently teammates are doing it right now and all of them have been all stars if not superstars.

He can shoot, pass, steal, whatever, no matter where he goes.

No he can't, if he goes to SA like you want, he will have to pass the ball all the time to Duncan not shooting, if he goes to Orlando will have to pass the ball to T-Mac not shooting, if he goes to phily will have to pass the ball to Iverson not shooting, if he goes to Toronto same story, Washington, even New York. Unless he goes to Cleveland, or Seattle, then he might just want to prove himself.

No he can't, if he goes to SA like you want, he will have to pass the ball all the time to Duncan not shooting, if he goes to Orlando will have to pass the ball to T-Mac not shooting, if he goes to phily will have to pass the ball to Iverson not shooting, if he goes to Toronto same story, Washington, even New York. Unless he goes to Cleveland, or Seattle, then he might just want to prove himself

if he goes to SA do you expect this fom Kidd:
0 points, 17 assists, 8 rebs, 2steals?? i don't think so, wherever he goes he's gonna post the same (not THE SAME , but almost) numbers

Right but still you have no reason that shows why he should leave.

A championship?

Yes, they do, haven't you seen that before?

No, they don't. Jason Kidd is not a Restricted Free Agent.

Gugliotta, C. Robinson, Penny, McDyess, Manning. At that moment, any of those were way much better or were playing much better than what his currently teammates are doing it right now and all of them have been all stars if not superstars.

They weren't All-Stars when Kidd played with them.

No he can't, if he goes to SA like you want, he will have to pass the ball all the time to Duncan not shooting, if he goes to Orlando will have to pass the ball to T-Mac not shooting, if he goes to phily will have to pass the ball to Iverson not shooting, if he goes to Toronto same story, Washington, even New York. Unless he goes to Cleveland, or Seattle, then he might just want to prove himself.

First of all, only San Antonio is a team from your list he'd be going to. Second of all, how is Kidd shooting in New Jersey? He has to pass the ball all the time to his other four teammates! Duncan takes roughly 18 shots a game. Bruce Bowen, 5-6. A combined 23 to 24. Jefferson and Martin combine for 25 shots a game. I have no idea why Kidd wouldn't be able to continue to play exactly the same way as in New Jersey only on a team with one of the elite two players in the game who is a legit post player surrounded by a defensive monster of a team. If anything, Kidd should see more shots per game because of the defense gathering on Duncan and the kick-outs.

Once Karl starts understanding the value of the Dutch Dan, he'll start him again at C.

Dan Gadzuric
A. Mason
Thomas
Redd
Payton

Hey, you got it, Dan! Starting line-up for tonight:

Dan Gadzuric
A. Mason
Thomas
Cassel
Payton

Plus, he was never considered to be voted as MVP playing for Dallas or Suns.

Because he wasn't as good back then. He has got better over the years. Most players do.

I would agree that you can confuse things, but if you can confuse something, you might as well understand other things.

Now I'm confused.

When I said even Stoudamire was better than him back to that time, you should understand I was talking about a PG, not a rookie. I did mean Stoudamire which is Damon not Amare Stoudemire.

You should have said Damon then. So you don't confuse people. One minute we are talking about Kidd back in Phoenix, you mention Stoudamire, what am I supposed to think. Sorry I didn't make the link to Damon. Because it was soo obvious.

As for the rest of your posts, Ben took care of that.[/quote]

Contrary to popular belief, unless the Bucks win the championship, the Sonics won this trade pretty bad. Why you say? Gary paytons as good or better than ray allen by himself right? not to mention desmond mason is no schmuck.

This is why, payton knows the bucks dont have much of a chance against the top teams in the nba. He's old. He wants a championship. Gary payton will not resign with the bucks at the end of the season. IF gary payton does not resign, which is a VERY likely possibility.... then what did the bucks get out of this trade? basically 20-30 games of Payton, and Desmond Mason for....... a 27 year old leader and bonafide all star in Ray Allen and a 1st round pick, which no matter how you put it, is not worth one desmond mason. The acquisition of Gary Payton in no way = championship, it just means the Bucks MIGHT go a bit further in, maybe even to the finals. Then lose. Then rebuild cuz they traded their future. Look what happened to Charlotte, they traded their pick..... kobe, for divac. Miluwakee traded their pick.... Nowitzki for some guy who i forget. and even if the sacramento pick the bucks gave away does not = nowitzki or kobe, the sonics still get ray allen who i'd take over desmon mason any day.

what this trade comes down too?
desmond mason
for
ray allen, 1st round pick

laughable.

And whatever chance the bucks had of keeping payton is further abolished by the fact that cassell will moan and pout and bitch the rest of the season

elden campbell for kenny anderson is not bad either.... anderson just aint good anymore anyhow, and big centres like campbell that can play are rare commodities. Even if campbell sucks, the sonics main purpose of getting him is so they could dump him and free up some cap

hehehe, if jason kidd moves...... that kidd for marbury deal aint looking too bad eh??

plus marburys awesome, one of my favorites!

anyhow kidd would probably work ok in san antonio, duncan will just be an immensely upgraded kmart. It'll be cool if kidd could play shooting guard, and parker can still start...... positions dont really matter anyway, they're just for namesake, kidd could run the offense as normal, and parker could put the hurt on the offense with his off the ball quicks and they could both dish off to bowen and smitty on the wings.

i dont think anything would hurt kidd or any players numbers, unless they moved to incredibly stacked teams (aka portland), i mean its not like kidd or duncan will control the ball EVERY single play, they could split it and play off each other. Plus, i dont think either would mind lowered numbers in this point of their careers as long as they won.

Well, as a Nets fan, you know I have to chime in on this one.

I don't see Kidd going anywhere. Put yourself in his place.

In Jersey, you're the messiah...the saviour of a franchise...an MVP candidate. You're THE star in the New York/New Jersey area, which is one of the biggest media markets in the world. You're on billboards, video game covers and Nike commercials. Your wife has a job hosting her own television show. You're 30 years old without having set roots anywhere for your career and you're finally in a place where you're a lock to get your jersey retired. Quality free agents come to play with you. You have probably the best roster in the East when healthy and your entire team is built around your style of play. Each year you have a potential backdoor route to the NBA Finals, avoiding all of the league's best teams until the end.

In San Antonio, you get to play with the most versatile and skilled big man in the league...but you're his second fiddle. The money will be basically the same as if you stayed in Jersey but you're in a small media market so you're commercial appeal and fan adoration will drop off. You never get to establish yourself with any franchise. The upgrade you get is probably from the 5th best team in the league to the 2nd or 3rd, and you have to beat those other top teams each year just to get to the finals. Is that worth making your wife quit her job and moving your entire life across the country again?

I'd stay with Jersey...

I have no idea why Kidd wouldn't be able to continue to play exactly the same way as in New Jersey

Kidd would be great on San Antonio, but he wouldn't be able to play the same way. A fast breaking point needs finishers to get the ball to in the open court. The Spurs have no one on the level of Shawn Marion, Kenyon Martin or Richard Jefferson. Bruce Bowen is an excellent defensive player but he's never going to dunk on anyone and Steve Smith has old legs that just wouldn't keep up. If they play Ginobili instead they gain some open-court athleticism but lose pretty much everything else in terms of shooting, court awareness and defense. They'd be a half court team. Kidd would still be very effective but he'd lose a major dimension of his game.

only on a team with one of the elite two players in the game who is a legit post player surrounded by a defensive monster of a team. If anything, Kidd should see more shots per game because of the defense gathering on Duncan and the kick-outs.

The Nets are already a defensive monster of a team...probably better than San Antonio would be with Kidd. San Antonio would have holes at the four, where the 6'7" Malik Rose gets shot over by whoever he guards, and the two, where Steve Smith is old and slow and Ginobili is clueless.

It'll be cool if kidd could play shooting guard, and parker can still start...... positions dont really matter anyway, they're just for namesake, kidd could run the offense as normal, and parker could put the hurt on the offense with his off the ball quicks

That wouldn't work. For Kidd to be effective you want him to take the ball up court and initiate the offense whenever possible. Making him play off the ball eliminates his passing ability...which is what makes him great. You have to try and maximize each player's strengths. Along those lines, Tony Parker can't shoot so he wouldn't make a good two guard either. He'd have to be Kidd's backup.

and they could both dish off to bowen and smitty on the wings.

You can't play all four at the same time. Someone has to go to the bench...

As for Ben, EG took care of most of your comments.

Well, I'm not a NJ fan but I do live in the Metro area so that's why I share my comments with EG. Like I said before, the same Kidd said he's going nowhere, he hasn't given you any reason for you to think he's going anywhere.

They weren't All-Stars when Kidd played with them.

Yes they were, go and check it. The problem is that they were like Portland, a bunch of superstars sharing the ball all over but they were all-stars.

Because he wasn't as good back then. He has got better over the years. Most players do.

He was that good in Phoenix, but like I said he was all over all stars. But you & Ben don't understand it. Kidd is the very first option the Nets have, Kidd does it all, if he goes somewhere else with a huge player like Duncan, he is not going to feel that freedom, he will have to get back to those Suns years where he was not able to shoot the ball with the freedom he does there in NJ, where he has green light, those are stats.

Get back to Kidd's file and check what are the seasons when Kidd has been shooting over 1000 shots, and you will see there are reasons for him to shoot the ball over 1000 times. 95-96, Mashburn injured playing just 18 games in that season, Kidd had to start shooting. 00-01, Penny Hardaway, just playing 4 games that season, once again Kidd had to start using more opportunities, and of course last season playing in NJ, he's the star there where he needs to take those shots.

Like I said Clinton, the stats are showing the stupidity that he will not be doing the same if he goes somewhere else with a superstar like Duncan or Shaquille, or the same Garnett, not even to mention T-Mac, etc. Unless that other first option is injured or out. Kidd moved from Dallas to Phoenix after shooting 1200 shots there, He was the same or maybe better but as a result he shot 800, why? cause he had to take the ball to Chapman, D. Manning, McDyess, C. Robinson and they had to share the ball all over and each one of them shot over 750 if not 900 shots. If he goes to SA, the first option is to pass the ball to Duncan not to shoot or penetrate.

His show is more visible in a team with no superstars, that's what happened with his move to NJ, he was that good but didn't have that freedom. Eg. Rip Hamilton, you could say he's better now, but he's the same, it's just that he didn't have the opportunities Detroit is offering him and that makes you think he's better now.

you mention Stoudamire, what am I supposed to think. Sorry I didn't make the link to Damon. Because it was soo obvious.

Well, Damon Stoudamire is not even the same last name. I did recognize you got confused, that's why I didn't complain with that but stated I did mean Stoudamire not Stoudemire. However, if you know well Stoudemire is not the same spelling, you would have thought that I spelled it wrong and you would post his name was misspelled, would that be a better response?. No, why?, cause everyone knows well the other kid is a rookie in his very first season and can't be compared with anything but others first season stats. Not you or nobody is going to compare Amare Stoudemire with Kidd in any way, not now not in the past. So it was soo obvious I didn't mean Amare.

I don't see Kidd going anywhere. Put yourself in his place.

I want to be a Champion.........

Then you/he will have to join the Lakers,

Then you/he will have to join the Lakers,

LOL, good one, but the Lakers don't have the cap space

As for Ben, EG took care of most of your comments.

No, he didn't.

Quality free agents come to play with you

No quality free agents are or will be coming to New Jersey. Especially if Kidd gets a pay raise.

and Steve Smith has old legs that just wouldn't keep up

Which won't matter since he won't be in San Antonio.

The Nets are already a defensive monster of a team...probably better than San Antonio would be with Kidd.

The Spurs are much better defensively than the Nets, and adding Kidd would only make them better.

San Antonio would have holes at the four

Tim Duncan?

and the two, where Steve Smith is old and slow and Ginobili is clueless.

Steve Smith is gone, you forget about Stephen Jackson and Jason Kidd could actually play the two guard.

That wouldn't work. For Kidd to be effective you want him to take the ball up court and initiate the offense whenever possible.

Which he can still do, he already guards many shooting guards anyway to make up for Kittles size disadvantage.

Making him play off the ball eliminates his passing ability...which is what makes him great.

Why would he play off the ball?

You have to try and maximize each player's strengths. Along those lines, Tony Parker can't shoot so he wouldn't make a good two guard either. He'd have to be Kidd's backup.

Tony Parker can shoot, as he's shown this season. Parker would basically be a smaller, quicker, French version of Kerry Kittles next to Kidd in San Antonio.

Yes they were, go and check it. The problem is that they were like Portland, a bunch of superstars sharing the ball all over but they were all-stars.

2001: Only Jason Kidd goes to All-Star Game for Phoenix.
2000: Only Jason Kidd goes to All-Star Game for Phoenix.
1998: Only Jason Kidd goes to All-Star Game for Phoenix.

No, they were not All-Stars.

Like I said before, the same Kidd said he's going nowhere, he hasn't given you any reason for you to think he's going anywhere.

Except for that whole him hanging out with Duncan in San Antonio, him saying he wants a ring, etc.

Rip Hamilton, you could say he's better now, but he's the same, it's just that he didn't have the opportunities Detroit is offering him and that makes you think he's better now.

No, Rip is better now. Detroit isn't giving him any more opportunities than he was given in Washington last season. The only difference is, Rip now has a team that plays defense so he can take more chances, he also has confidence he didn't have in Washington with injuries and the pressure from the Jordan spotlight. Rip is actually getting fewer shots and playing fewer minutes this year.

No quality free agents are or will be coming to New Jersey. Especially if Kidd gets a pay raise.

So no quality free agents want to play with Kidd? Rodney Rogers? Penny Hardaway in Phoenix?

The Spurs are much better defensively than the Nets, and adding Kidd would only make them better.

So much better...that the Nets have been missing Mutombo...the centerpiece of their defense for most of the season...and are still allowing less points per game than San Antonio. When Mutombo comes back the team will be starting 4 defensive stoppers...

Tim Duncan?

Will probably be playing center next season. If you want to say he's playing power forward...then they have a hole at the five...

Steve Smith is gone, you forget about Stephen Jackson and Jason Kidd could actually play the two guard.

Stephen Jackson yes...but why would you bring in the best passing point guard in the world and try and change his game?

Which he can still do, he already guards many shooting guards anyway to make up for Kittles size disadvantage.

So if you guard a shooting guard on defense you also have to play shooting guard on offense?

And Kidd usually picks up the other team's best outside scorer when they really need to deny a basket. You want your best offensive players to be able to conserve their energy.

Why would he play off the ball?

Because...you just said Kidd could play shooting guard...and I said he'll be far more effective initiating the offense himself...

Tony Parker can shoot, as he's shown this season. Parker would basically be a smaller, quicker, French version of Kerry Kittles next to Kidd in San Antonio.

Tony Parker...6'2" speedy drive-and-dishing...spot-up shooting point guard...

Kerry Kittles...6'6" pull-up shooting...fast break finishing two guard. I don't see how one can be a version of the other.

Parker and Kidd are both set-up men...playing both in the same back court would mean one of them was trying to be a pure scorer and shooter...which is de-emphasizing both of their strengths.

I'm still wondering what the sales pitch is for San Antonio. "Jason...forget all that fame and admiration. Come here...uproot your life and move across the country...lose your endorsement money...play second-fiddle to Tim in our half-court offense...get worn out due to our lack of depth and a western conference schedule...and play the other best team's in the league in consecutive seven game series to get to the finals."

They'd be a good team...but it still doesn't seem nearly worth it to me.

Quote:
No quality free agents are or will be coming to New Jersey. Especially if Kidd gets a pay raise.


So no quality free agents want to play with Kidd? Rodney Rogers? Penny Hardaway in Phoenix?

LOL, he said IF Kidd stays in NJ, he would want more money, and the Nets doesn't have cap to sign a quality free agent

Quote:
Tim Duncan?


Will probably be playing center next season.

they can use Rose at PF; and there are rumors that Olowakandi could sign with SA ( )

They'd be a good team...but it still doesn't seem nearly worth it to me.

They are one of the best teams of the NBA, with Kidd, they will be competing seriously for the championship.

2001: Only Jason Kidd goes to All-Star Game for Phoenix.
2000: Only Jason Kidd goes to All-Star Game for Phoenix.
1998: Only Jason Kidd goes to All-Star Game for Phoenix.
No, they were not all-stars.

Read the whole thing and you will see. The fact that Portland didn't get an all-star player in the game, doesn't make you say that Portland doesn't have all-stars or superstars, you know that very well. If all-star games is the way for you to say how many all-stars the league has, then every single year the league just have 24 all stars. However, following your statement, I would take Rasheed/Rahim/Allen/G. Robinson over Brad Miller who with your statement you are saying that none of them are all-stars and Brad is better than them.

Except for that whole him hanging out with Duncan in San Antonio, him saying he wants a ring, etc.

Every player start talking like that, but that is not reason to make you think the player is going anywhere, he hangs out with Payton and says the same thing, does that make him want to join Payton anywhere Payton goes.

Grant Hill & Duncan said they wanted to play together, everybody was looking forward to seeing them together, Hill signed with Orlando "the sign & trade deal would make it looks like he did", why did Duncan got back to San Antonio?, he said he wanted to play with Hill, he had to get to Orlando then.

You don't have to believe all the comments around, if he said he wants a ring, why can't you bring a player there?, why does he have to go anywhere? He will feel better getting a ring there in NJ than getting it in SA, anyway, everyone who wants to get a ring has to ask it to Duncan? Duncan just have one ring, Shaq has 3, Duncan doesn't guarantee rings nowhere, Shaq does. If asking for rings is your reason, then he's going to Los Angeles, cause that's where all the rings are.

No, Rip is better now. Detroit isn't giving him any more opportunities than he was given in Washington last season. The only difference is

Yes, the only difference is that he got to another team where he can play with more freedom, so that's all I'm saying. That makes you think he's better cause you didn't see him doing all that back with the Wiz but what makes you think he didn't know how to do all that when he played with the Wiz. What makes you think that the year Kidd got to NJ he learned to play the way he's doing it? What makes you think that he will keep doing it no matter where he goes?

My very first argument in this Forum site was with you, and I do believe you had your points when you told me I can't assure that all the players I had chosen for my team were going to get along. Same thing is here Ben, what makes you think these guys are going to keep doing the same when you know well they have to back up to give the main player (Duncan) his space and his game, Kidd is not going to be the first option in San Antonio, and if you want to get more details of few examples, you can read my other post where I explained a few.

So no quality free agents want to play with Kidd? Rodney Rogers? Penny Hardaway in Phoenix?

You completely misunderstood. No quality free agents are or will be coming to New Jersey. Especially if Kidd gets a pay raise. IE, New Jersey cannot pay them.

So much better...that the Nets have been missing Mutombo...the centerpiece of their defense for most of the season...and are still allowing less points per game than San Antonio. When Mutombo comes back the team will be starting 4 defensive stoppers...

Mutombo is not a defensive stopper, he makes the Nets worse, and without they are better defensively. The Spurs are still better. Points Per Game is not the only measure of defense, and in every category San Antonio pwnz.

Will probably be playing center next season. If you want to say he's playing power forward...then they have a hole at the five...

Michael Olowokandi.

Stephen Jackson yes...but why would you bring in the best passing point guard in the world and try and change his game?

I never said you did. I said he could continue to play the same way, did I not?

So if you guard a shooting guard on defense you also have to play shooting guard on offense?

Well, then Tony Parker is the SG, either one's the SG if you want, or you're starting two PGs or even two SG's if you want. The position designation is really irrelevant.

Because...you just said Kidd could play shooting guard...and I said he'll be far more effective initiating the offense himself...

Play shooting guard, as in, play at the shooting guard position. I never said he should play like the "common" shooting guard, I said the exact opposite.

Tony Parker...6'2" speedy drive-and-dishing...spot-up shooting point guard...

Kerry Kittles...6'6" pull-up shooting...fast break finishing two guard. I don't see how one can be a version of the other.

Parker takes many pull-up shots, and finishes many fast breaks. They are both smaller than Kidd in terms of overall size, both are fast, both can shoot and therefore they will be nearly similar in the backcourt.

Parker and Kidd are both set-up men...playing both in the same back court would mean one of them was trying to be a pure scorer and shooter...which is de-emphasizing both of their strengths.

Parker isn't a set-up man, he doesn't rack up the assists, he dumps it into Duncan and the offense is ran from there. Kidd runs the offense from himself, thus they can co-exist, especially since Parker is more of a scorer than a distributor.

I'm still wondering what the sales pitch is for San Antonio. "Jason...forget all that fame and admiration. Come here...uproot your life and move across the country...lose your endorsement money...play second-fiddle to Tim in our half-court offense...get worn out due to our lack of depth and a western conference schedule...and play the other best team's in the league in consecutive seven game series to get to the finals."

They'd be a good team...but it still doesn't seem nearly worth it to me.

Kidd wants to head back West, he's not an Eastern guy. Kidd wouldn't lose all his endorsement money (how many local business does he have endorsements with?), Kidd would run the Spurs offense. Kidd already plays tons of minutes in NJ and could play LESS in San Antonio with Parker, Claxton, Jackson, etc. He would earn more fame and admiration by becoming a key part of a Championship contender.

Read the whole thing and you will see. The fact that Portland didn't get an all-star player in the game, doesn't make you say that Portland doesn't have all-stars or superstars, you know that very well. If all-star games is the way for you to say how many all-stars the league has, then every single year the league just have 24 all stars. However, following your statement, I would take Rasheed/Rahim/Allen/G. Robinson over Brad Miller who with your statement you are saying that none of them are all-stars and Brad is better than them.

So now you're changing your story. First I'm supposed to look up because they were all-stars. Now, guys who were all-stars who didn't make the team. If they didn't make the team for three straight years, why would they be considered All-Stars? Cliffy hasn't been an All-Star level player for years, McDyess wasn't polished enough, Penny was busted and Googs wasn't good enough.

Every player start talking like that, but that is not reason to make you think the player is going anywhere, he hangs out with Payton and says the same thing, does that make him want to join Payton anywhere Payton goes.

But he and Payton play the same position and are of the same skill level. Also, no team could afford them both!

Grant Hill & Duncan said they wanted to play together, everybody was looking forward to seeing them together, Hill signed with Orlando "the sign & trade deal would make it looks like he did", why did Duncan got back to San Antonio?, he said he wanted to play with Hill, he had to get to Orlando then.

Duncan went back to San Antonio because he wanted to win a Championship and had oodles of respect for the Admiral.

You don't have to believe all the comments around, if he said he wants a ring, why can't you bring a player there?, why does he have to go anywhere?

Because New Jersey can't win a ring! They can't add a top 20 player without losing many valuable guys, San Antonio can.

He will feel better getting a ring there in NJ than getting it in SA, anyway, everyone who wants to get a ring has to ask it to Duncan?

He can't win a ring in New Jersey, and how can you determine where he'd feel better winning it?

Duncan just have one ring, Shaq has 3, Duncan doesn't guarantee rings nowhere, Shaq does. If asking for rings is your reason, then he's going to Los Angeles, cause that's where all the rings are.

Los Angeles can't sign him. Duncan plus Kidd and the addition of probably Kandi almost guarantees a ring more than anywhere else Kidd could go.

That makes you think he's better cause you didn't see him doing all that back with the Wiz but what makes you think he didn't know how to do all that when he played with the Wiz.

If he could do it, why didn't he?

What makes you think that the year Kidd got to NJ he learned to play the way he's doing it? What makes you think that he will keep doing it no matter where he goes?

Kidd has played the same in New Jersey as he did in Phoenix.

My very first argument in this Forum site was with you, and I do believe you had your points when you told me I can't assure that all the players I had chosen for my team were going to get along. Same thing is here Ben, what makes you think these guys are going to keep doing the same when you know well they have to back up to give the main player (Duncan) his space and his game, Kidd is not going to be the first option in San Antonio, and if you want to get more details of few examples, you can read my other post where I explained a few.

Kidd shouldn't be a first option! Duncan is a legit top three dominant player in this league, and either the best or the second best. Kidd will not have to give up any space and any piece of his game. Kidd should prefer to defer to Duncan because of the aspect of winning and his "selfishness" to win, if he truely wants to win, he will go to San Antonio, if he'd rather toil a mile from the summit for the remainder of his career then he should stay in New Jersey. He's already proclaimed the best PG in the league, he's already considered for MVP every season, he's already an All-Star, he's achieved all his personal tops, usually this is the time in players careers where they will want to win a title. Because Kidd has been indifferent to New Jersey the entire time he's been there, because Kidd has already been traded from where he felt was home many times before, because Kidd is reaching that "stage", I think it's more logical and likely to believe San Antonio is the place for Kidd.

So now you're changing your story. First I'm supposed to look up because they were all-stars. Now, guys who were all-stars who didn't make the team.

I'm going to make it easier for you, tell me if Gugliotta was not an All-star a year before Kidd got to NJ. I'm not changing my story, I said very clear they were all-stars if not superstars. Cliff was a superstar when Kidd got there, same as Penny, the point there is not who went to the all-star game Ben, the point is that he didn't have chance to shoot the ball like he's doing it in New Jersey.

Also, no team could afford them both!

So Payton is more expensive than Duncan?

Duncan went back to San Antonio because he wanted to win a Championship and had oodles of respect for the Admiral.

However, he hasn't won anything there yet but the one he already had. He had respect for Robinson, so what makes you think Kidd is going to disrespect his whole team?.

Because New Jersey can't win a ring!

Why San Antonio (who has been beaten up by the same lakers year 2 & 3) can win a ring and NJ can't? Of course NJ can, they just didn't have the luck to have the whole season with Mutombo, even though at the time Mutombo gets back, NJ will have to wait til he gets 100% to give the best results, but don't you see them at the top of their division without him?.

What about if he's playing, do you think anyone will stop them in the east?. Indiana can have all they have but the fun they got last year getting O'Neal in the post and all those kids jumping around and making fun of Van Horn, this time is not going to be the same with Mutombo blocking shots there. A good rebounder and one of the best defensive players in the whole NBA history.

He can't win a ring in New Jersey, and how can you determine where he'd feel better winning it?

Sometimes you feel better when you do something by yourself, when your team accomplish something and you are the one who gets the credits, that's why there's a Finals MVP, is given to the player who did the most for his team to win the championship. In San Antonio, Duncan would get that, that's why he will feel better doing it in NJ, cause he will get the credits there.

Duncan plus Kidd and the addition of probably Kandi almost guarantees a ring more than anywhere else Kidd could go.

Ok, there's something I don't have to discuss with you and it is the payroll for every team, looks like you do because I don't understand how can San Antonio have Duncan, Parker, Smith, Ferry, Jackson, Kerr, Rose, Willis, and they are planning to sign Kidd and Kandy, how can they have cap with all those guys and you would say NJ doesn't?, are they just getting pennies for playing?

If he could do it, why didn't he?

You just said he didn't feel comfortable playing with the boss there.

Kidd has played the same in New Jersey as he did in Phoenix.

Well, you can tell that to Clinton who believes he got better in NJ, that gives me one point more cause I'm just arguing with you that he is doing it in NJ cause he feels the freedom of doing it, if he gets where there's a major guy like Duncan, he will have to stop and feed Duncan before he does anything else.

if he truely wants to win, he will go to San Antonio, if he'd rather toil a mile from the summit for the remainder of his career then he should stay in New Jersey.

Sometimes money does a lot, and I meant it Ben.