Spirit of '99: 2011 Lockout Discussion

[benji]

Why the hell wouldn't the players accept the 50/50? :? 50/50 seems fair to me...

Because they want the 57/43 they have now?

[The X]

Why the hell wouldn't the players accept the 50/50? :? 50/50 seems fair to me...

If we lose a WHOLE season then the NBA's history books lose all integrity. It definitely makes me less interested in the league.

The players will agree to 50/50 split, it's the system issues they don't like. They want to preserve MLE as it is (or close to as it is), but most importantly they want a system that allows players to go to whatever team they like (ala Lebron to Miami, Melo demanding trade to Knicks). The league wants to restrict what teams that will always be in luxury tax (big market teams) can do as far as sign-and-trades, Larry Bird rights etc.

Look at it from a player's perspective, they've served out their rookie contract playing for cheap owner in small market that will never win & are entering their prime, they want to maximise their endorsement potential, have a chance to compete for title year in & year out and earn as much money as possible. So they naturally want to go to the big market teams (ala Lakers, Knicks, etc).

[NovU]

In addition to The X's post...

As the union leaders and individual players talked, during and after the news conference, they clearly were most unhappy with restrictions that would be placed on teams whose payrolls make them liable for a stiffened luxury tax. Not only would the tax itself go up but other limitations -- reducing the amount and availability of mid-level exception contracts for those teams, ending their sign-and-trade rights, hiking the tax further for repeated payers and a couple more -- would hurt a free agent's ability to choose his next team and reduce the number of teams bidding for his services.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/s ... ef:nbahpt1

Heisley, allen, Gilbert, Sarver, and rest of Stern's bitchy owners need to step back a little. And Gilbert wouldn't be doing this if he still had Lebron on his team. A fucker with double standard.

[Andrew]

No more games have been cancelled as yet and Stern has backed off cancelling games through Christmas, so perhaps if they can sort out some of the lingering system issues and Stern can keep the 50-50 split on the table, today's meeting will move them a step closer. It's hard to be optimistic about that though, every time progress appears to be made, talks break down again.

[Jhiane]

In addition to The X's post...
And Gilbert wouldn't be doing this if he still had Lebron on his team. A fucker with double standard.

because he has fucked up roster for now

[Andrew]

Sources: ‘Significant’ progress made toward deal

We've heard that before of course, so I'm going to hold off getting my hopes up too much.

If the players are willing to take the 50-50 split in exchange for a few concessions from the owners on the MLE and so forth, I think the owners should be on board with it. Easy for me to say without knowing all the ins and outs or having to pay those salaries, of course, but they've already beaten the players down from 57% and presumably had a few things go there way on the cap issues. Surely they can budge a little at this point, as Woj put it a few days ago:

Owners had won labor deal by 30 points but want to keep press on, throw alley-oops, win by 40. Hey, someone's going to give a hard foul here

[NovU]

I guess there will be more Childress than before from now on. But seeing how NBAers failed to play at an expected level in europe recently, I am not too sure if that's a good idea for both Euro teams and NBA players.

[bowdown]

Stern again keeps bluffing. Stop the BS. Do what you said you were gonna do.

[Patr1ck]

The players will eventually fold. Paychecks for their lifestyles are missing.

[_Steve_]

The players will eventually fold. Paychecks for their lifestyles are missing.

That's why I first thought that the whole lockout would not happen, at least not until November...

[Oznogrd]

The players will eventually fold. Paychecks for their lifestyles are missing.

That's why I first thought that the whole lockout would not happen, at least not until November...

Why? They're a bunch of mostly dumb kids who dont really comprehend things like finances. They pay someone to take care of that shit for em.

[shadowgrin]

Of the league’s 30 teams, only the Boston Celtics weren’t represented at Tuesday’s union meeting.

What a bunch of insistent decertification asshats.

[Mavs4Life]

Suprised a Ray Allen didn't appear, he seems like the best guy on the team to represent.

[shadowgrin]

KG represented the Celtics in the union meetings before, he even represented the union in negotiations at some point. Same with Pierce. Rondo is probably highly influenced by KG and Pierce so he's also in the decertification camp so he says 'screw it' to the meeting. Ray Allen is probably smart that he knows the union is screwed at this point because of its own doing and doesn't give a shite anymore or he's enjoying the company of Mrs. Allen.

[Andrew]

I guess there will be more Childress than before from now on. But seeing how NBAers failed to play at an expected level in europe recently, I am not too sure if that's a good idea for both Euro teams and NBA players.

There's only so many spots to go around, too.

[Jhiane]

im still hoping that there will be a deal

[Andrew]

Seems there's still a chance of it at the moment.

[Andrew]

Progress on mid-level, but other hurdles emerge

And from Woj:

After finishing call with owners' labor relations committee, David Stern will deliver union a revised offer tonight, league sources tell Y!

Owners revised offer will be working off current negotiations with players -- not the threatened 'reset' offer awaiting if talks broke down.

So once again, we wait and see. Not holding my breath.

[Jhiane]

until what time the meeting will stop?

[Andrew]

It's already finished and there's a new offer on the table.

Hunter says "It's not the greatest proposal in the world," but he feels an obligation to bring it to the players.

[Jhiane]

so they will have to meet on another day?

[The X]

The lockout is about to turn sour once player reps reject the offer. I think the owners trying to restrict player movement when they can deal them at any time reeks.

Kevin Durant took issue with Thursday's press conference where Adam Silver said the new system would have less player movement.

"Why cant players have freedom of movement?" asked Durant. "Teams trade players like cards, but you get mad when a player decides to go to another team. Double standard."

Durant pointed out that players often take less money in order to have the freedom to pick their destination.

"I'm all for player movement," said Durant before adding that he loves playing for the Thunder.

Durant's comments drew the attention of the NBA's Labor account on Twitter when it was broached that the Thunder would have difficulty re-signing their core..

"Not true on new deal limiting chances to keep team's core," said the writer of the account. "Teams would have cap exceptions to re-sign their own free agents."

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1dOzQWBeM

I agree a bit with what Mr Durant has to say.

Although....

- Sign and trades suck. They have no place in the league. I have no problem with Mr Lebanon James telling the Cavs to stick it & joining the Heat, I do have a problem that they sign-and-trades for players/draft picks/trade exceptions. If you're worried about a player not re-signing, trade him before his contract is up. If a player leaves, he can do it based on cap rules. I know you guys will rebutt that it's better to trade & get something in value in return rather than being left empty handed, I say stuff it. If player doesn't want to sign contract extension during season then you're going to have to roll the dice. I would've love to have seen the Nuggets not deal Melo. Not even entertained the prospects. He's under contract, why get strong armed. I don't care if they got Ga lo & picks, so what? I see why Melo did it, I just wish Nuggets didn't play ball or just flat out release him

- I like that they're decreasing MLE for luxury teams. I see where players are coming from in that it should only be for teams already in luxury. I see where owners are coming from that if they want to improve competitive balance, allowing that wouldn't make sense.


In the end, get ready to enjoy NCAA guys

[benji]

- Sign and trades suck. They have no place in the league. I have no problem with Mr Lebanon James telling the Cavs to stick it & joining the Heat, I do have a problem that they sign-and-trades for players/draft picks/trade exceptions. If you're worried about a player not re-signing, trade him before his contract is up. If a player leaves, he can do it based on cap rules.

The Heat could have signed both Bosh and LeBron to the max outright, the sign and trades were so they could give the players a bit more and the former teams got something out of it.

Sign-and-trades ARE part of the cap rules. You can't sign-and-trade for someone without the cap space.

If player doesn't want to sign contract extension during season then you're going to have to roll the dice. I would've love to have seen the Nuggets not deal Melo. Not even entertained the prospects. He's under contract, why get strong armed. I don't care if they got Ga lo & picks, so what? I see why Melo did it, I just wish Nuggets didn't play ball or just flat out release him

Yeah, nothing like giving up your sulking superstar for nothing instead of stockpiling cheap talent or future talent because the Knicks are run by morons. The Nuggets would have loved that lack of playoff revenue too.

[The X]

Which is why I would never make a good GM

Then again, if I was GM I'd like to think I could milk the same rules & get what I could out of it.

I can see logic in sign and trades, not so much a fan of trade exceptions. I understand their function, meaning you can trade a player now to a team with cap space who might not have any assets (players, picks) that you want, so you are deferring the assets you get back until later. As a more casual fan, I'd prefer a third team getting involved than trade exceptions. Correct me if I'm wrong about trade exceptions, since I don't know a whole lot about them other than what I've gathered from various trades over the years.

Aside from that, I'm wondering if scrapping or at least restricting sign-and-trades would prevent those deals where Keith Van Horn or the likes gets a free payday to hop on a plane & collect his cheque. Would be nice to see that loophole closed.

[benji]

The Van Horn situation was that the Nets were willing to pay him $4 million to never play so that they could get rid of Kidd's max contract. The Lakers did the same thing with Aaron McKie in the Gasol trade. They aren't really sign-and-trades either. I mean how would you restrict it? Make them play games? Stay around for a season?

Trade Exceptions are basically a locked part of your cap that you can use to acquire someone else, generally teams let them expire to get the cap space. It's in place so a team can't just trade off everyone for nothing to clear space immediately. The exception counts against the cap but you can send it to someone else for things. You could do something like ship off Melo for picks and then turn around and send the exception to get Blake Griffin, Eric Gordon and DeAndre Jordan. You can also leave it on the books all year and get the cap space after like I think the Cavs did with LeBron's.