All NBA teams announced

lol at u thinkin I did anything more than copy-paste the table from b-r then sort it in excel. took less time than u last in bed.

Wouldn't that be a low usage rate and a high efficiency?

LoL I literally bursted out on this.

Gonna try to decipher benji's gibberish because it's a fun exercise in futility...

don't get why cube-rooting a multiplied value somehow makes things equally weighted.

Since he used three variables (PER, WS, WS/48) it made sense to get the 'root' of all three variables put together using a 'three' root.

If the value before cube-rooting is the same, no matter what multiplicants you had, it's still going to be the same after you cube-root it.
All I'm saying is cube-root(x) == cube-root(y) if x == y.

lol of course except the dope didn't use variables that are equal. PER != WS != WS/48

(abc)^1/3 = x
(a^1/3)(b^1/3)(c^1/3) = y
x = y

Thanks for the explanation.

shadowgrin, I never said PER == WS == WS/48.

All I said was that I didn't understand when he was cube-rooting and why, because if
PER_1 * WS_1 * WS/48_1 == PER_2 * WS_2 * WS/48_2
then
cube-root(PER_1 * WS_1 * WS/48_1) == cube-root(PER_2 * WS_2 * WS/48_2)

To make it an even simpler example, if I'm multiplying players' A and B properties in order to compare the result, is there any difference if I compare their A*B instead of their sqrt(A*B), other than the values being smaller numbers? Square root 9 is always going to be 3, no matter what A and B you multiplied to get 9 as a result. That's all I'm saying. I may be missing something painfully obvious.

Indeed good sir. I guess it doesn't matter if only after the comparison of the players like you said but since he's a fag and dope he wants to see the equally weighted value of it.
You already mentioned the smaller number, it also makes the graph look good.


This is the part where benji comes in and shows us why then we be disgusted and amused after seeing it, like his penis.

I may have been thinking of something else and added the unnecessary step because I'm an abject moron.

That said, it does make the graph look better. And it does scale better among all the players. Which for a while were why we were altering stats because so you could explain it to people like shadowgrin.

IIRC, it does equally weight, but this doesn't change the order because why the fuck would it. I probably internalized it because verstality attempts to equally weight and ALSO DISPLAY within the variant stats. So I just automatically Xroot whatever.

It's my fault and I apologize for the unnecessary discussion.

GameScore is still terrible.

The general case says less, but are MPG taken into account when judging and creating the All-NBA teams?

Nothing is. It's like asking what's taken into account on the MVP vote. Unless you can create a "didn't give me an interview metric" the model already fails.

I think ultimately you have to determine your own metrics and explanation. I personally for MVP like "share" of team wins. LeBron may be the best player in the league but, just to pluck an example with no basis, maybe Harden produced more of his teams wins. A couple years ago Kevin Love did great in a lot of these values but the Wolves sucked, I don't see a problem with him winning a MVP in that situation. Without him say the Wolves would've won 15 games instead of 35. That's 20 fucking games. That's MVP territory for me. Was he better than LeBron that season or Durant or Paul or whoever? Probably not, but he may have made a bigger impact on the Wolves than they did. I mean there are diminishing returns. And each year is different.

I don't care for the NBA awards because they aren't specific, you can define them how you want. It's why I suggested others from time to time.

All-NBA teams for me are basically guys who played really well for a lot of minutes. Unless they did something insane. So you put Andre as First Team Center and then can easily fill out the rest of the team.

I'm an abject moron.

*bookmarks*

I personally for MVP like "share" of team wins. LeBron may be the best player in the league but, just to pluck an example with no basis, maybe Harden produced more of his teams wins.

This is the way I tend to look at it too, but the 'best player in the league' definition seems fairly ubiquitous. Why the NBA can't specify is beyond me.

The national league in Australia has the coaches vote for MVP, awarding ten points (maximum of five to any one player) after each game, which would tend to lean towards a 'share of wins'-type result. The players on better teams would be having points taken away from them by teammates. Where it falls down, though, is in letting the coaches vote for anyone; then worse teams are likely to get fewer votes overall, which skews it away from that.

In the AFL, the best player in each game is given three votes, the second-best player two votes, and the third-best player one vote, awarded by the umpires. Which not only gives you concrete criteria (at least to a degree; 'best' being a vague term), but people you can point fingers at in the case of shonky votes and, as with the NBL system, it's less prone to being distorted by narratives, forgetting the first half of the season, etc. because every game is explicitly taken into account and at the end of the season it's all just added up. The AFL keeps the votes secret the entire year, then has a function at the end of the season where they run through each week announcing who got what number of votes, with a leaderboard that updates after each game (or week; I've never watched the thing so I'm not really sure). So you get far better results, and you get a presentation that beats the shit out of handing the guy a trophy and having him pose for a couple of photos just prior to a game, which just looks shoddy.

Just as example, a few of my "share" percentages. You can look up PER and stuff on your own. I don't want to bother making tables

2002-03 (just ATL through ORL since I never updated this) and second five-man list is "wins" produced:

Code:

mcgrady,tracy   orl   22.8%
bryant,kobe   lal   22.7%
pierce,paul   bos   21.2%
garnett,kevin   min   20.2%
francis,steve   hou   20.1%
nowitzki,dirk   dal   19.5%
jamison,antawn   gsw   19.2%
houston,allan   nyk   19.1%
abdur-rahim,shareef   atl   18.7%
howard,juwan   den   18.3%
o'neal,shaquille   lal   18.3%

nowitzki,dirk   dal   12.1
bryant,kobe   lal   10.6
garnett,kevin   min   9.9
mcgrady,tracy   orl   9.6
kidd,jason   njn   9.5

Some complete years:
2007-08:

Code:

james,lebron   cle   21.4%
bryant,kobe   lal   20.7%
iverson,allen   den   20.3%
jefferson,al   min   19.8%
richardson,jason   cha   19.6%
jamison,antawn   was   19.3%
jefferson,richard   njn   19.2%
stoudemire,amare   pho   18.5%
carter,vince   njn   18.4%
paul,chris   noh   18.3%

bryant,kobe   lal   12.2
pierce,paul   bos   11.2
iverson,allen   den   10.6
stoudemire,amare   pho   10.5
paul,chris   noh   10.1

2008-09:

Code:

wade,dwyane   mia   22.4%
jamison,antawn   was   20.9%
james,lebron   cle   20.6%
bryant,kobe   lal   19.4%
paul,chris   noh   19.2%
durant,kevin   okc   19.0%
nowitzki,dirk   dal   18.9%
bosh,chris   tor   18.6%
west,david   noh   17.9%
roy,brandon   por   17.8%

james,lebron   cle   13.4
bryant,kobe   lal   11.6
pierce,paul   bos   10.7
howard,dwight   orl   10.5
williams,mo   cle   9.9

2011-12:

Code:

love,kevin   min   21.3%
durant,kevin   okc   20.4%
james,lebron   mia   20.2%
griffin,blake   lac   19.2%
westbrook,russell   okc   17.9%
jennings,brandon   mil   17.8%
monroe,greg   det   17.8%
lee,david   gsw   17.7%
gasol,pau   lal   17.6%
paul,chris   lac   17.5%

durant,kevin   okc   11.9
james,lebron   mia   11.9
westbrook,russell   okc   10.4
griffin,blake   lac   8.8
parker,tony   sas   8.7
smith,josh   atl   8.7
boozer,carlos   chi   8.6
CHA (7-59)      8.5

Cube root of share% * wins * share%:

Code:

durant,kevin   okc   0.793
james,lebron   mia   0.786
love,kevin   min   0.698
westbrook,russell   okc   0.693
griffin,blake   lac   0.688
paul,chris   lac   0.628
smith,josh   atl   0.628
gasol,pau   lal   0.626
bryant,kobe   lal   0.612
jennings,brandon   mil   0.609

One thing I've always tried to figure out is if there should be something like subtracting their teammates like two OKC guys or earlier two NJN guys or the Heat trio showing up in the list because 4-12 on the team might not be any good. Maybe some function of their share minus the share of the next player on the team. Though that would boost players who have nobody else of quality on their team. Probably losing teams even more than share does.