John Salley: MJ not top five all-time

[NovU]

Come on, son. We've been over this in every bits of details you couldn't possibly imagine. I dunno where you discussed Kobe's legitimacy being the GOAT but I don't think you can convince anyone here.

[hrbulls]

Come on, son. We've been over this in every bits of details you couldn't possibly imagine. I dunno where you discussed Kobe's legitimacy being the GOAT but I don't think you can convince anyone here.

I live in NC, right in the heart of MJ country. And I've debated this topic numerous times with the biased MJ fans. I only tell the story like it is, I don't deny true talent and skills when I see it. Sorry bro, but MJ has been surpassed.

[NovU]

I live in NC, right in the heart of MJ country. And I've debated this topic numerous times with the biased MJ fans.

LoL

Debated with your friends? Lolz.

Ok. In which area do you think Kobe is better. In which area Kobe do you think stands out above others? Don't let his highlight reels fool you, or hype made by media. He's been definite the most overrated player in our generation.

[rise]

Come on, son. We've been over this in every bits of details you couldn't possibly imagine. I dunno where you discussed Kobe's legitimacy being the GOAT but I don't think you can convince anyone here.

I live in NC, right in the heart of MJ country. And I've debated this topic numerous times with the biased MJ fans. I only tell the story like it is, I don't deny true talent and skills when I see it. Sorry bro, but MJ has been surpassed.

Don't give your fellow Carolinians a bad name. I'm not the biggest Jordan fan, and I don't deny talent when I see it. Kobe isn't greater than MJ. Lebron isn't greater than MJ yet and I don't know if he'll pass MJ either. There is no way you can make me believe anyone in NBA history was a better basketball player than Jordan and I doubt you could persuade anybody else here either.

Kobe is a fabricated Jordan that the league gave to the fans since everyone wanted MJ. But his performance is nowhere near MJ's. Forget MJ, he's not even Lebron Good. I'd probably put him on the level with Wade, but with a slight nod to Wade.

Putting him on Wade's level is pushing it a little, but you are spot on.

[Sauru]

I live in NC, right in the heart of MJ country. And I've debated this topic numerous times with the biased MJ fans. I only tell the story like it is, I don't deny true talent and skills when I see it. Sorry bro, but MJ has been surpassed.

what does you living in NC have to do with anything? you have yet to say why you think kobe has passed jordan? this is probably because he is not close. i have watched both in their prime (magic and bird too) and kobe is not on their level. kobe has several spots to climb before being the top dog


kobe can win another 4 rings and he is not the best ever, but since it seems championships is all people care about then answer this, how many times has jordan made the finals and lost? how about kobe? how many MVP's does jordan have in the finals, and again how many for kobe?

[benji]

Kobe's never been swept by the Celtics.

[NovU]

Putting him on Wade's level is pushing it a little, but you are spot on.

No. Not at all. In some senses you can place him above him. If Brandon Roy kept himself healthy, he was gonna be more comparable to Kobe.

[shadowgrin]

Jordan banged white chicks without getting accused of rape.
Kobe didn't even get to bang the white chick that accused him of rape.

Jordan wins.

[koberulz]

Try not to forget which era MJ played in.

The one that allowed handchecking and general thuggery on defense, making life absolutely miserable for perimeter scorers, you mean?

In an era where you have John Starks and Bryon Russell, whom were the only players that had an inkling of a chance in guarding MJ made it quite apparent.

Wait, is your argument seriously 'more people could defend Kobe, therefore Kobe is better'? Because that argument is fucking retarded.

Even then he couldn't put 81 on the board.

Neither could Kobe until he was on one of the shittiest teams that's ever existed, playing against one of the few teams that were shittier. And he only did it once. Who gives a fuck what a guy did once?

We can start off by removing all the All-Star awards, all the scoring titles, all the stats, all of the MVPs, and of course all the rings.

Just a word of advice: starting your argument with 'let's ignore all the facts' is not a good start.

[hrbulls]

I live in NC, right in the heart of MJ country. And I've debated this topic numerous times with the biased MJ fans.

LoL

Debated with your friends? Lolz.

Ok. In which area do you think Kobe is better. In which area Kobe do you think stands out above others? Don't let his highlight reels fool you, or hype made by media. He's been definite the most overrated player in our generation.

Kobe, overrated? Quite a bold statement, wouldn't you say? Perhaps, you might be watching totally different basketball games than the rest of society because that is way off. Or maybe you're just watching too much of "highlights" and not enough ACTUAL games.

So as I've already asked for all the stats, MVPs, rings, etc to be thrown out... I have yet to hear why MJ is your GOAT. Should I suit up for another bold and biased reply?

Don't give your fellow Carolinians a bad name. I'm not the biggest Jordan fan, and I don't deny talent when I see it. Kobe isn't greater than MJ. Lebron isn't greater than MJ yet and I don't know if he'll pass MJ either. There is no way you can make me believe anyone in NBA history was a better basketball player than Jordan and I doubt you could persuade anybody else here either.

Just because MJ paved the way for the likes of Kobes, LeBrons, and the D-Wades of the world simply doesn't make him the GOAT. You'll need a more analytical pov.

what does you living in NC have to do with anything? you have yet to say why you think kobe has passed jordan? this is probably because he is not close. i have watched both in their prime (magic and bird too) and kobe is not on their level. kobe has several spots to climb before being the top dog


kobe can win another 4 rings and he is not the best ever, but since it seems championships is all people care about then answer this, how many times has jordan made the finals and lost? how about kobe? how many MVP's does jordan have in the finals, and again how many for kobe?

NC is where you'll find the most biased MJ fans. That was where I was getting at.

Rings don't define "the greatest of all time"... if we're going there, Bill Russell has far more. Does that make him the GOAT? Not a chance.

Kobe's skills have surpassed MJ's. Kobe's a far better shooter, much better ball handler, and a better scorer. I'll give MJ a slight edge on the defensive side of the ball... then again, he never had to guard the likes of a D-Wade, LeBron, Melo, etc.

The one that allowed handchecking and general thuggery on defense, making life absolutely miserable for perimeter scorers, you mean?

Wait, is your argument seriously 'more people could defend Kobe, therefore Kobe is better'? Because that argument is fucking retarded.

You don't seem to have an argument here. MJ's era had guys that were stiff as a tree. The size, speed and athleticism of the players then are nothing compared to today's athletes.

Neither could Kobe until he was on one of the shittiest teams that's ever existed, playing against one of the few teams that were shittier. And he only did it once. Who gives a fuck what a guy did once?

Again, my argument in this case is not needed because there is nothing else I should add to my point. You can refer to the above response. But 81 points is still 81 points.

Just a word of advice: starting your argument with 'let's ignore all the facts' is not a good start.

I'm not ignoring all the facts. I'm asking to put all the stats aside and analyze from a pure basketball standpoint why MJ is your GOAT. But if you want to argue stats, I can do that all day because Kareem and Wilt's name is all I need to speak of.

[_Steve_]

30 PPG on 50% career FG%. Never lost a finals series. Jordan wins. Who had he played against? Drexler, Payton, young Kobe, sometimes 5 guys the same time AND Craig Ehlo!
League and game were harder, tougher those days. Bad Boys from Detroit would all be ejected widway through the first quarter for their physical game now. Same with '90s Knicks.

[koberulz]

So as I've already asked for all the stats, MVPs, rings, etc to be thrown out...You'll need a more analytical pov.

Are you doing this on purpose?

Kobe's skills have surpassed MJ's. Kobe's a far better shooter

Kobe: Career .554TS%, career .486eFG%.
MJ: Career .569TS%, career .509eFG%.

Oh, but we're not allowed to use stats, are we? What the fuck do you want to debate then? Whose form looks nicer? Because that's a completely pointless argument; I'd rather have hte guy who can put the ball in the hole a larger percentage of the time.

much better ball handler

How exactly does one measure this?

and a better scorer.

Kobe: 25 points per 36.
MJ: 28.3 points per 36.

Next?

You don't seem to have an argument here.

I do, you're just ignoring it in favour of making shit up and pulling 'facts' out of your ass.

MJ's era had guys that were stiff as a tree. The size, speed and athleticism of the players then are nothing compared to today's athletes.

Prove it.

But 81 points is still 81 points.

So? I mean, firstly, we're supposed to be ignoring stats, which you're doing a shithouse job of so far. And secondly, getting 81 points once is really not that big a deal. Which would you rather have, the guy who can give you twenty points a night, or the guy who gets 81 one night and three the next?

I'm not ignoring all the facts. I'm asking to put all the stats aside

These two sentences are completely contradictory. Stats are facts, and you're asking people to ignore them in favour of just asserting things and expecting them to be taken as true, which is a rubbish way to have a discussion.

But if you want to argue stats, I can do that all day because Kareem and Wilt's name is all I need to speak of.

Uh...no.

[Spree#8]

Kobe, overrated? Quite a bold statement, wouldn't you say?

He's without a doubt the most overrated defender of all-time. Arguably, the most overrated player of all-time overall.

Kobe's a far better shooter, much better ball handler, and a better scorer.

Kobe is definitely a better shooter from long range. But do you have anything to back up that he's a better ball handler and scorer? I'll just say in advance that the 81 point game is not enough.

I'll give MJ a slight edge on the defensive side of the ball...

LOL

he never had to guard the likes of a D-Wade, LeBron, Melo, etc.

Kobe had to guard the likes of those maybe some 10 years ago. For a few years now, he's often seen guarding the likes of Bruce Bowen, Rajon Rondo, Raja Bell, Thabo Sefolosha, etc.

But 81 points is still 81 points.

Very weak opponent (especially defensively), a ton of shots taken to get the points and stat-padding continued until the end of the game, even when the outcome was already decided. Don't get me wrong, it is an impressive achievement, but if you want to use it as an argument why he's better than some other player (doesn't even have to be Jordan) - that's just not very convincing, sorry.

League and game were harder, tougher those days. Bad Boys from Detroit would all be ejected widway through the first quarter for their physical game now. Same with '90s Knicks.

+1

[shadowgrin]

I live in NC, right in the heart of MJ country. And I've debated this topic numerous times with the biased MJ fans.

LoL

Debated with your friends? Lolz.

Ok. In which area do you think Kobe is better. In which area Kobe do you think stands out above others? Don't let his highlight reels fool you, or hype made by media. He's been definite the most overrated player in our generation.

Kobe, overrated? Quite a bold statement, wouldn't you say? Perhaps, you might be watching totally different basketball games than the rest of society because that is way off. Or maybe you're just watching too much of "highlights" and not enough ACTUAL games.

So as I've already asked for all the stats, MVPs, rings, etc to be thrown out... I have yet to hear why MJ is your GOAT. Should I suit up for another bold and biased reply?

Don't give your fellow Carolinians a bad name. I'm not the biggest Jordan fan, and I don't deny talent when I see it. Kobe isn't greater than MJ. Lebron isn't greater than MJ yet and I don't know if he'll pass MJ either. There is no way you can make me believe anyone in NBA history was a better basketball player than Jordan and I doubt you could persuade anybody else here either.

Just because MJ paved the way for the likes of Kobes, LeBrons, and the D-Wades of the world simply doesn't make him the GOAT. You'll need a more analytical pov.

what does you living in NC have to do with anything? you have yet to say why you think kobe has passed jordan? this is probably because he is not close. i have watched both in their prime (magic and bird too) and kobe is not on their level. kobe has several spots to climb before being the top dog


kobe can win another 4 rings and he is not the best ever, but since it seems championships is all people care about then answer this, how many times has jordan made the finals and lost? how about kobe? how many MVP's does jordan have in the finals, and again how many for kobe?

NC is where you'll find the most biased MJ fans. That was where I was getting at.

Rings don't define "the greatest of all time"... if we're going there, Bill Russell has far more. Does that make him the GOAT? Not a chance.

Kobe's skills have surpassed MJ's. Kobe's a far better shooter, much better ball handler, and a better scorer. I'll give MJ a slight edge on the defensive side of the ball... then again, he never had to guard the likes of a D-Wade, LeBron, Melo, etc.

The one that allowed handchecking and general thuggery on defense, making life absolutely miserable for perimeter scorers, you mean?

Wait, is your argument seriously 'more people could defend Kobe, therefore Kobe is better'? Because that argument is fucking retarded.

You don't seem to have an argument here. MJ's era had guys that were stiff as a tree. The size, speed and athleticism of the players then are nothing compared to today's athletes.

Neither could Kobe until he was on one of the shittiest teams that's ever existed, playing against one of the few teams that were shittier. And he only did it once. Who gives a fuck what a guy did once?

Again, my argument in this case is not needed because there is nothing else I should add to my point. You can refer to the above response. But 81 points is still 81 points.

Just a word of advice: starting your argument with 'let's ignore all the facts' is not a good start.

I'm not ignoring all the facts. I'm asking to put all the stats aside and analyze from a pure basketball standpoint why MJ is your GOAT. But if you want to argue stats, I can do that all day because Kareem and Wilt's name is all I need to speak of.

[rise]

[NovU]

Kobe, overrated? Quite a bold statement, wouldn't you say? Perhaps, you might be watching totally different basketball games than the rest of society because that is way off. Or maybe you're just watching too much of "highlights" and not enough ACTUAL games.

So as I've already asked for all the stats, MVPs, rings, etc to be thrown out... I have yet to hear why MJ is your GOAT. Should I suit up for another bold and biased reply?

Every opinion is bias unless you turn to facts(please provide us one for discussion sake). This is you not having watched any Michael Jordan's game and probably only a handful of Kobe's good games and sportscenter highlights. This simply is the case of mesmerized/brainwashed by media made hype. His made shots all look good and the way he hits the shots look just spectacular, while all those missed shots and turnovers are forgotten in the process. You have your Kobe making a contested fadeaway jumpshot and you forget how great his teammates are. All this when Kobe's production level always has been well below impressive level especially considering his heavy volumn use of the ball.

Please provide unbiased facts that we could rely on. Not something like "still 81 is 81". Lolz!

[hrbulls]

30 PPG on 50% career FG%. Never lost a finals series. Jordan wins. Who had he played against? Drexler, Payton, young Kobe, sometimes 5 guys the same time AND Craig Ehlo!
League and game were harder, tougher those days. Bad Boys from Detroit would all be ejected widway through the first quarter for their physical game now. Same with '90s Knicks.

Drexler, a defender? I'll give you a little leeway on Gary Payton but that guy was too small to guard MJ.

Of course the games were tougher then... if it was football. C'mon man, Bd Boy Pistons and the Knicks? If we had a time machine to send Kobe into MJ's era to play those "tough" games for him, Kobe would've put up far better of the two categories that biased-MJ (or Kobe-haters) fans always coveted: stats and rings.

Stats are quite misleading.

Are you doing this on purpose?

Kobe: Career .554TS%, career .486eFG%.
MJ: Career .569TS%, career .509eFG%.

Oh, but we're not allowed to use stats, are we? What the fuck do you want to debate then? Whose form looks nicer? Because that's a completely pointless argument; I'd rather have hte guy who can put the ball in the hole a larger percentage of the time.

Again, stats are misleading. Need I remind you of the "stiff" competition MJ played in? Heck, he had more help than Kobe ever did in his career and all MJ could muster was 6 rings? He even played with two other hall of famers too. And all the while, Scottie Pippen did most of the dirty work throughout MJ's championship years.

How exactly does one measure this?

This skill don't show up in the box scores... if you play basketball (and if you're even a decent ball player), you would understand whether you had ball-handling skills or you didn't.

Kobe: 25 points per 36.
MJ: 28.3 points per 36.

Next?

That seems to be your only argument. If you ACTUALLY watched MJ's games in his prime, you would know that the 80s and early part of the 90s were fast tempo. Which leads to more points, and of course more opportunities. Additionally, MJ's skills were far surpassed the players in his era.

I do, you're just ignoring it in favour of making shit up and pulling 'facts' out of your ass.

No need to get testy. We're all adults here. And besides, we have kids on these boards as well.

So? I mean, firstly, we're supposed to be ignoring stats, which you're doing a shithouse job of so far. And secondly, getting 81 points once is really not that big a deal. Which would you rather have, the guy who can give you twenty points a night, or the guy who gets 81 one night and three the next?

Again, no need to get testy. We're just having a debate. But for the record Kobe didn't put up "three the next"... he put up 30+ the next 3-4 games. And since you like stats so much, I'll remind you that he put up 35+ (not to mention 51pts somewhere in there) 4-5 games prior to his 81pt night. Oh and he did bring his team back from an 18+ point deficit in that game too.

These two sentences are completely contradictory. Stats are facts, and you're asking people to ignore them in favour of just asserting things and expecting them to be taken as true, which is a rubbish way to have a discussion.

Since stats are all you can go by, here's another one: Kobe scored 62 against the Mavs. Here's the kicker---> he only need 3 quarters to do so. Need I say more?

Uh...no.

He's without a doubt the most overrated defender of all-time. Arguably, the most overrated player of all-time overall.

This just proved your lack of knowledge of the game.

Kobe is definitely a better shooter from long range. But do you have anything to back up that he's a better ball handler and scorer? I'll just say in advance that the 81 point game is not enough.

Very weak opponent (especially defensively), a ton of shots taken to get the points and stat-padding continued until the end of the game, even when the outcome was already decided. Don't get me wrong, it is an impressive achievement, but if you want to use it as an argument why he's better than some other player (doesn't even have to be Jordan) - that's just not very convincing, sorry.

Reply not needed due to your lack of knowledge.

LOL

Again, lack of knowledge. So here's my "LOL" --->

Kobe had to guard the likes of those maybe some 10 years ago. For a few years now, he's often seen guarding the likes of Bruce Bowen, Rajon Rondo, Raja Bell, Thabo Sefolosha, etc.

Because "For a few years now" he's gotten Ron Artest to do the dirty work. Again, lack of knowledge.

Every opinion is bias unless you turn to facts(please provide us one for discussion sake). This is you not having watched any Michael Jordan's game and probably only a handful of Kobe's good games and sportscenter highlights. This simply is the case of mesmerized/brainwashed by media made hype. His made shots all look good and the way he hits the shots look just spectacular, while all those missed shots and turnovers are forgotten in the process. You have your Kobe making a contested fadeaway jumpshot and you forget how great his teammates are. All this when Kobe's production level always has been well below impressive level especially considering his heavy volumn use of the ball.

Please provide unbiased facts that we could rely on. Not something like "still 81 is 81". Lolz!

I still have yet to hear WHY MJ is "the greatest of time"...

And for the record, I grew up watching MJ and I idolized him as a teenager. But the pedestal that MJ stands on isn't quite as high as you think. It's amazing how the marketing (Nike, Gatorade) for MJ blurred your vision.

If not Kobe, someday real soon, LeBron will overtake that position.

[benji]

Shaq was better than anyone Jordan played with.

[hrbulls]

Shaq was better than anyone Jordan played with.

True, but don't forget that Shaq was brought in to be "the man"... while Kobe was traded for on draft night with little expectation to backup Eddie Jones.

[benji]

Even if I accept that theory, I don't see what it has to do with anything.

[hrbulls]

Even if I accept that theory, I don't see what it has to do with anything.

Because all biased MJ fans always lean to stats. The fact that Shaq was "the man" for so many years made an impact to Kobe's stats.

[koberulz]

Of course the games were tougher then... if it was football. C'mon man, Bd Boy Pistons and the Knicks? If we had a time machine to send Kobe into MJ's era to play those "tough" games for him, Kobe would've put up far better of the two categories that biased-MJ (or Kobe-haters) fans always coveted: stats and rings.

I'm still waiting for you to say something that is neither a smug dismissal of someone else's point with the sole explanation being that they are clearly stupid and therefore not worth explaining things to, or just pulling statements out of your ass - occasionally in clear contradiction of the truth - and expecting us to treat them as though they're somehow valid.

Stats are quite misleading.

This is the single stupidest thing I've ever read.

Heck, he had more help than Kobe ever did in his career and all MJ could muster was 6 rings?

I have no idea what the fuck you're on about. The most help MJ ever had was Pippen, who is nowhere near the level of Shaq. Or perhaps even Pau.

This skill don't show up in the box scores... if you play basketball (and if you're even a decent ball player), you would understand whether you had ball-handling skills or you didn't.

If we can't measure something, exactly how do we determine who has more of it?

If you ACTUALLY watched MJ's games in his prime, you would know that the 80s and early part of the 90s were fast tempo.

If you actually watched MJ's games in his prime, you would know he played in 1998, which is hardly the early 90s. Also, 2001-03, which dragged his average down significantly.

Additionally, MJ's skills were far surpassed the players in his era.

That isn't actually a coherent sentence, but it looks distressingly like your previous argument that MJ was better than his competition, which makes him an inferior player. Which, again, is fucking stupid.

We're just having a debate.

No we're not. You're making nonsensical and provably false statements, everyone else is having a debate. You're losing.

But for the record Kobe didn't put up "three the next"... he put up 30+ the next 3-4 games. And since you like stats so much, I'll remind you that he put up 35+ (not to mention 51pts somewhere in there) 4-5 games prior to his 81pt night. Oh and he did bring his team back from an 18+ point deficit in that game too.

All while being the only competent player on his team and engaging in a historic level of ballhoggery.

Since stats are all you can go by, here's another one: Kobe scored 62 against the Mavs. Here's the kicker---> he only need 3 quarters to do so. Need I say more?

Yes. A lot more. Kobe went 6/24 or whatever it was in game seven in 2010. Obviously he sucks.

Cherrypicking one game here or there is never going to prove your point.



Seriously, try not posting again until you can put together a post that doesn't dismiss everyone's arguments because they're stupid. You've yet to address a single thing that's been said in a way that isn't completely moronic.

[NovU]

Stats are quite misleading.

I feel almost sorry for you. You are quite misled. The stats entirely records/captures what happens on the floor. If you only meant boxscore stats, yes, it can be sometimes misleading and it does make Kobe look MJ-like sometimes. Get out of that small box and learn more about actual statistics that basketball analysts rely on. It's just a display of your ignorance since you don't even know what they're about nor their significant meanings. No offense but it's just uber ignorant. Or please do prove me wrong by convincing me how stats are misleading.

Heck, he had more help than Kobe ever did in his career and all MJ could muster was 6 rings? He even played with two other hall of famers too. And all the while, Scottie Pippen did most of the dirty work throughout MJ's championship years.

Lolz. Are you serious about this? Kobe arguably has never been the best player on his championship team. But in MJ's runs, he was a dominant force the whole time. And he was significantly the best player in his era. Kobe? Not even for a single season.

Kobe can't even represent for a single season. How do you expect him to be better than MJ who represents for entire decade and beyond. The bottomline is that MJ was the best in his generation while Kobe never was, not even for a single season.

And for the record, I grew up watching MJ and I idolized him as a teenager.

Lol. No sir you didn't. Otherwise you wouldn't even believe what you are saying right now. Or you just don't know basketball. Ignorance is a bliss I guess.

The fact that Shaq was "the man" for so many years made an impact to Kobe's stats.

Being with Shaq didn't really matter in Stats for Kobe unless you are only talking about points per game which is meaningless since more shots means more points anyways. When Shaq was gone, Kobe went totally ballistic(historic ball usage, lol) and took all the shots in the world at about same efficiency. That doesn't make him a better player than Shaq-era-Kobe. Means just shot more and scored more. And in trade, he totally disappeared on defensive end.

Even talking from pure basketball perspective, this kid's argument is just absurd. Hardwood classic stuff. Lol!

[_Steve_]

31.2 ppg, 56% fg%, 11.4 assists, 6.6 rpg, 2.8 steals and 1.4 blocks in a finals series against Magic and the Lakers.
35.8 ppg, 53% fg%, 4.8 rpg and 6.5 apg against the Blazers in the following finals series.
Finals-record 41.0 ppg in '92-'93.
nuff said.

[Spree#8]

This just proved your lack of knowledge of the game.

If you think Kobe's 12 All-Defense teams are all well-deserved, this just proves you don't watch NBA games.

Reply not needed due to your lack of knowledge.

What exactly proved my lack of knowledge there? Stating that the Raptors were a shitty defensive team or perhaps stating that scoring 81 points once is not a valid argument for being a better player?

Again, lack of knowledge.

If I lack knowledge about everything so badly, please explain why Jordan was only a slightly better defender than Kobe.

Because "For a few years now" he's gotten Ron Artest to do the dirty work. Again, lack of knowledge.

Especially in the 2008 Finals when he was guarding Rondo and his dirty work guy was probably Luke Walton or Vladimir Radmanovic. Then there were the series against the Suns in 2006 and 2007 when he was guarding Raja Bell and leaving the dirty work to Luke Walton and Smush Parker, I guess. And then there was of course his epic defense on Bruce Bowen against the Spurs in 2008. You apparently lack knowledge when the Lakers signed Ron Artest and what was going on there before that. After the Shaq era, Kobe never takes on the toughest assignments defensively. So far, you're doing a great job at proving literally nothing and being a broken record. Go on!

Yes. A lot more. Kobe went 6/24 or whatever it was in game seven in 2010. Obviously he sucks.

And he went 3/21 against a D-League Hornets team last season. What a loser.

I'm starting to believe this is just some serious trolling the guy is doing here.