2012 Conf. Semis: (4) Celtics vs. (8) 76ers

WOW.

If you haven't, watch the 1st half of game 4 and watch the Sixers shoot ~20% FG. Then imagine they go on to win this game.

Iggy was huge in the clutch.

On Boston's part, this must be the 2nd most stupidly lost game in these POs, the unbeatable no.1 being the Grizzlies in game 1 vs Clippers.

We're still alive, though advancing will take breaking the C's in Boston once again.

this series is the shit.

Our bench firepower - Lou Williams and Thad Young - has finally showed up for a game and that is always bad for the opposing team.

Great defensive adjustments. We've finally managed to stop Garnett - 3/12 FG with 7 turnovers. It's been visible from the start that Lavoy Allen is our only player who can kind of contain him. Another thing is that - thanks to Rondo - Philly can double Garnett and Pierce whenever they try to do anything and not be punished for that. They can hurt us a lot more than Rondo ever can, even if he makes one or two jumpshots in the game. I loved the hustling on the glass, Lavoy and Thad got 5 offensive rebounds each. We're finally seeing some more of Meeks, who is not only a constant threat from outside, but a hustler on defense as well. He didn't let the Celtics play those backdoor cuts for Ray and got 2 steals in 2 consecutive plays, I think.

However, it must be noted that the 1st half was a real pain to watch. Turnovers and bricks was all we were seeing on offense by Philly. Boston should have been up by at least 25 points at halftime, but they let the Sixers hang around with turnovers and fouls, which led them to lose a game they had no right to lose. It seems whoever gets off to a good start in any game in this series, loses that game.

I'm glad Collins didn't keep Hawes and Brand on the court for too long. They were both totally useless, maybe except for a little bit of Brand's defense. Allen and Young both played 30+ minutes and that's exactly how it should have been. Lavoy Allen is a real deal, guys. He's the most consistent bigman for Philadelphia in this series (actually, he's the only consistent one except for Brand, who's consistently bad).

I find it funny how I keep hearing the officiating favors Philly in this series. Almost every Celtics' possession would have been an offensive foul if all the illegal screens had been called. It's not just Garnett anymore, for instance Ray Allen is constantly working with his elbows on screens and also using his left arm to push people off when he's dribbling. Besides, in the 4th quarter yesterday, Boston was in the bonus for over 6 minutes and the Sixers were not until the intentional fouls near the end. And the whining that KG's illegal screen in the crucial moment of game 2 shouldn't have been called is absolutely stupid.

Anything's still possible, right now the most likely scenario to me is a game 7. Hustle, rebounds, any production from our bigmen and limiting Garnett are the keys for the Sixers. If they do that, I see them advancing. Boston has the HCA, but the 76ers have already won in Boston, it's possible. Game 5 after two days of rest might be crucial, we'll see what they do.

Does anyone still have something to say about the officiating favoring Philly? The calls in this game are a joke. So is the Sixer offense in the 2nd half and the fact they got outscored by Brandon Bass in the 3rd. Well, gotta win game 6 to stay alive.

lol at the sign. I like AI but that's a terrible idea for the Sixers to even consider.

still got that Celtics in 7 bet alive, gosh i'm good at guessing

I like AI but that's a terrible idea for the Sixers to even consider.

Probably, there's not really a place for him on this team now. But watching the Sixers' scoring impotency at times makes me wish we had someone like him around. While I like Lou Williams, he's usually not enough, especially in the playoffs. And he'll probably be gone after this season anyway.

I'd love to see AI play again, but that's extremely unlikely at this point. He'll definitely always have a sentimental value to me as the main reason why I got interested in basketball in the first place.

And just as I thought after game 4, game 7 awaits us. Game 6 would have been over long before it was if Philly guys were able to make free throws. Especially Iggy, seriously what's wrong with him? A career 74% FT shooter (best season at 82%), this season he shot 61% and in this series it was 46% before he missed 4 straight and then made one and later the clutch two. Threes are dropping for him like never before, but free throws are proving to be too much of a challenge... he makes them when they count the most, though. Just like he did in the other game 6 Philly's played in these playoffs already.

Elton Brand has come back from the dead, but ended up just switching places with Young again. At least Lou is finally providing that spark off the bench and does something on offense when everyone else either plays hot potato or throws up contested jumpshots. Jrue was finally aggressive and Rondo was helpless. He has to do that again in game 7 for us to have a chance. Turner did alright, Hawes even made some jumpers. Lavoy wasn't that necessary since Garnett was making anything only in the 4th - too little, too late. And Brandon Bass didn't have another career night, that's good. Ray is clearly not himself and Bradley isn't coming back for the playoffs, Turner absolutely has to take advantage. Post him up, take him off the dribble, anything.

Iguodala is actually clutch in these playoffs. Free throws in the final game against the Bulls, then a stepback jumper and a corner three in game 4 against the Celtics, yesterday some more clutch free throws, despite being so pathetic at the FT line lately. When he got that rebound and Boston intentionally fouled him I was like "OH FUCK NO!", but... he made both. Then so did Jrue and the game was over.

Alright, here it is. Game 7. Let's do this, Sixers.

I wouldn't mind that Gasol for Iggy trade rumor.

Now the focus turns to this series. Only 2nd round series that's remains to be decided. Good to see a 76ers supporter in our forum as well(aside grin the cocksucka). Good luck to you guys. Perhaps we can have a nice lil chat on the Heat vs 76ers thread next week, though I wouldn't mind Pierce ball cleanser sauru as a chat partner either.

Bitch please. Drex alone is better than all the retarded Heat fans in the forums.

I wouldn't mind that Gasol for Iggy trade rumor.

Please tell me you're kidding. Why would the Sixers do it?

Perhaps we can have a nice lil chat on the Heat vs 76ers thread next week

Certainly wouldn't mind that, still can't believe the Pacers failed to make use of their huge advantage inside. Seemed to me like David West was the only one who believed they could still win or at least cause the Heat some trouble and force game 7. The Sixers... that will likely depend on whether they are able to score in game 7, their defense has a habit of consistently showing up.

I wouldn't mind that Gasol for Iggy trade rumor.

Please tell me you're kidding. Why would the Sixers do it?

Just a rumor. Sixers trying to go all out on Jrue and Turner as their future. Maybe even with Vucevic, Lavoy and Young along. Williams and Hawes are surely gonna attract offers from other teams (especially lol at Hawes for fooling teams) and if the Sixers gonna have a post player might as well be one that's actually good and not on and off in games like Elton Brand.

PG Holiday
SG Turner
SF Young
PF Allen or Vucevic
C Gasol

Dunno about Meeks since he's gonna be a FA too.

Heard the rumor, but I don't like the trade at all. I hate that trade almost as much as Iggy for Monta Ellis, last year's rumor. Does Gasol solve the Sixers' problems? They are:

- lack of a consistent, powerful scorer - Gasol gets you points from the post, but he's not all that consistent. One game he's a beast, next game he's passive and takes 7-8 shots in 40 minutes. Not to mention he's 32 years old, so he's only gonna get worse.
- lack of good rebounders (Turner is our best rebounder in the Celtics series, so yeah) - Gasol is actually a very solid rebounder. But again, not a long-term solution.
- lack of a great post defender (mainly Brand is responsible for paint defense and doing pretty well, but he's undersized and 33 years old) - is Gasol a stopper? Not at all. I guess he's better than Hawes, but nothing more than solid and can't defend picks for shit.

The Sixers should probably start to hand the team over to Holiday and Turner, but I don't see why they should get rid of Iggy because of that. He doesn't freeze those two out on offense, he's no Kobe. He doesn't feel that need to hog the ball and take 30 shots a game. On the defensive end though, he's absolutely essential. I've seen some playoff stats that when Iggy's on the court, Sixers have a Defensive Rating of 91. When he's on the bench, their DRtg is 123. No other player has such a huge margin in these playoffs. Without him, we can kiss our top3 defense goodbye and keeping in mind that we have a very shaky offense, resigning from easy points in transition created by defense is a recipe for disaster. If we're trading him, get someone a lot better than Gasol. Mind you, we would have to send someone else to the Lakers since salaries don't match. Iggy's trade value is bound to go up after this little playoff run, but I don't think we can get anyone better than him if we want to trade him.

Brand's contract becomes an expiring one after this season, that should be our main trading card. Who doesn't want a $18+ million expiring contract, right? Add some kind of sign-and-trade deals of Williams and Hawes (yeah, hope he doesn't return) and maybe some picks and we could get something really nice. Especially Lou has probably worked for a sweet deal after this season and honestly, I'd rather let someone else overpay him. We already have a $8M man on the bench in Young.

I've heard something about Josh Smith wanting out of Atlanta, I'd much rather see him in a Sixers jersey than Gasol (I mean, if we don't let him brick long 2s all night like he does in Atlanta and use him more wisely on offense). Then we only need to find a center who can score some points but unlike Hawes is not retarded on defense (which might be easier said than done, I know) and we're golden. This team has a ton of potential, it's a matter of finding the right pieces and we could get to that 2nd round and further without our 1st round rival's best player getting injured in game 1.

Isn't Meeks restricted? I don't really see anyone who'd want to overpay him, for a reasonable price I'd like to keep him. I'm afraid Lavoy becomes a FA as well.

Ugly first half. Almost thought this was gonna be a blowout from the get go but somehow tied at first quarter. And then the Celtics go on to 7-0 for 8 point lead to end the half. The 76ers better step up and show some consistency on offense in the latter half.

let's hope C's don't choke

What the fuck... to think we'd get eliminated because of Rondo's extremely lucky (if he makes them consistently, maybe I'll believe otherwise) long jumpshots...

That's all she wrote. Not exactly a flashy series, pretty much a slugfest, but hard fought on both sides.

Gasol gets you points from the post, but he's not all that consistent. One game he's a beast, next game he's passive and takes 7-8 shots in 40 minutes. Not to mention he's 32 years old, so he's only gonna get worse.

You wouldn't be consistent too if you're not comfortable with your role in the offense.
Pau has already said that earlier in the season he doesn't want to be too much in the high post reduced to shooting mid-range jumpers or the way Mike Brown is using him. Despite being out of his comfort zone in the offense he still managed to be efficient and get the offense going aka 'passing it to Kobe'.

Gasol is actually a very solid rebounder. But again, not a long-term solution.

Gasol is definitely not a long term solution. Just to fill a hole, a very important hole, until Vucevic or Lavoy improves and then let Gasol go when his contract runs out in the next two years.

Mind you, we would have to send someone else to the Lakers since salaries don't match.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=7sxopeq

I've heard something about Josh Smith wanting out of Atlanta, I'd much rather see him in a Sixers jersey than Gasol (I mean, if we don't let him brick long 2s all night like he does in Atlanta and use him more wisely on offense)

NO. Just no. Sixers offense is about shooting mid-range shots (league-leading!?). Having that kind of offense would only give Smith the permission to shoot those bricks.

Any team getting Gasol would be fortunate, despite Mike Brown using him as a guard while Kobe tried to post up smaller defenders, Gasol is still one of the most skilled big guys in the league, I would hate seeing him leave the Lakers because I know once he's on another team, he's going to straight up beastify it for them.

Jackal can 'beastify' me anytime.
Sadly, he can't 'straight up' little Jackal.




The good thing in the Sixers losing that game 7 is that hopefully it gave Rondo confidence to his outside shot and make some more against the Heat.

Once I got a look at Lean's sexy body, I just can't bring myself to beastify anyone else Shadow, what that guy does to my anus, it's a miracle I can walk.

phpBB [video]

Lean - that hussy. I would kill him if he weren't so sexy like Jackal said.

You wouldn't be consistent too if you're not comfortable with your role in the offense.
Pau has already said that earlier in the season he doesn't want to be too much in the high post reduced to shooting mid-range jumpers or the way Mike Brown is using him. Despite being out of his comfort zone in the offense he still managed to be efficient and get the offense going aka 'passing it to Kobe'.

That might explain this season, what about the previous ones? People have been calling him soft and inconsistent for a good few years. His good passing skills are definitely a plus, but in Philly he might not have a Kobe to pass it to. Turner is about taking it to the basket, he has no 3 point range and his mid-range shot comes and goes, perhaps he can become a good post player, but not ready to be a first or second option yet. Jrue is very hard to stop when he drives, but rarely does so - he shoots threes instead. And he is a sharpshooter, but often not a powerful enough scorer. Therefore Gasol would have to carry the load on offense most of the time and we all know how that turned out in Memphis. 0 playoff games won in 12 tries.

Gasol is definitely not a long term solution. Just to fill a hole, a very important hole, until Vucevic or Lavoy improves and then let Gasol go when his contract runs out in the next two years.

Of course it's a very important hole. But why can't we fill it using Brand's contract and/or picks and/or Lou's or Hawes' sign-and-trade instead of getting rid of our best (here and now) player for someone who's not really worth it?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=7sxopeq

OK, didn't know Brackins would do the trick with a 5 million difference between Iggy and Gasol.

NO. Just no. Sixers offense is about shooting mid-range shots (league-leading!?). Having that kind of offense would only give Smith the permission to shoot those bricks.

Then perhaps we shouldn't rely on mid-range jumpshots anymore?... oh wait, if we trade Iggy for Gasol, I guess we start Thad at the 3. He made 1 three-point shot this season, so we end up with a grand total of 1 player in our s5 with 3-point range (Jrue), which means if we try to go inside we'll get clusterfucked by the opposing defense because there's nobody waiting outside who could punish them. And we have to shoot from mid-range... or we can always go back to starting Meeks and playing him 30 minutes because we desperately need someone to help with the spacing. Sounds good? yeah, thought so.

The good thing in the Sixers losing that game 7 is that hopefully it gave Rondo confidence to his outside shot and make some more against the Heat.

He was 1/10 from 3PT range in the first six games. Taking almost two a game, I'd say he was pretty confident (for his lack of shooting ability). The last 4 minutes of game 7 was pure luck. Best wishes for the Celtics in the ECF, but they have no stoppers for Wade and James, they have to count on Garnett's help defense. Philly might have actually been a more difficult matchup for the Heat if you can ignore "never underestimate the heart of a champion" kind of bullshit.

People have been calling him soft and inconsistent for a good few years.

Soft, so? Still doesn't change the fact that he's one of the few good scoring big guys in the league.
Inconsistent? Talking point made by talking heads. Same as Dirk being a choker, Darko not a god tier player, and the Greatness that is Joel Anthony having no offense, the last two being terrible absolute lies.
If you want to see real soft look at Lamar Odom.

Turner is about taking it to the basket, he has no 3 point range and his mid-range shot comes and goes, perhaps he can become a good post player, but not ready to be a first or second option yet. Jrue is very hard to stop when he drives, but rarely does so - he shoots threes instead. And he is a sharpshooter, but often not a powerful enough scorer. Therefore Gasol would have to carry the load on offense most of the time

Gasol being a better offensive player than Iguodala is better suited to carry the offense without Lou Williams.

we all know how that turned out in Memphis. 0 playoff games won in 12 tries.

Well, if he was given a better team instead with the likes of James Posey, Bonzi Wells, Stromile Swift, Jason Williams, Earl Watson, Mike Miller, and Chucky Atkins then he could have won one game during those playoffs with the Grizzlies.
With the Sixers he won't even be 'the man' or the offense rely heavily on him. Not in Collins system. iirc Sixers have the most games with different leading scorers.

Of course it's a very important hole. But why can't we fill it using Brand's contract and/or picks and/or Lou's or Hawes' sign-and-trade instead of getting rid of our best (here and now) player for someone who's not really worth it?

I think Gasol is worth it else we wouldn't be even having this discussion now.
Sign and trade is out of the question with the new CBA. Sixers have to wait six months before they can trade Lou or Hawes if Sixers sign them. What's the point of keeping them until December next season if the Sixers don't want them anyway by willing to trade them and if no team wants them then the Sixers would be burdened with their huge salary if they do manage to get one.

NO. Just no. Sixers offense is about shooting mid-range shots (league-leading!?). Having that kind of offense would only give Smith the permission to shoot those bricks.

Then perhaps we shouldn't rely on mid-range jumpshots anymore?... oh wait, if we trade Iggy for Gasol, I guess we start Thad at the 3. He made 1 three-point shot this season, so we end up with a grand total of 1 player in our s5 with 3-point range (Jrue), which means if we try to go inside we'll get clusterfucked by the opposing defense because there's nobody waiting outside who could punish them. And we have to shoot from mid-range... or we can always go back to starting Meeks and playing him 30 minutes because we desperately need someone to help with the spacing. Sounds good? yeah, thought so.

What are you ranting about? What does Smith's tendency to shoot bricks have to do with Young's, Holiday's, or Meek's offense?
If you don't want the team to shoot mid-range jumpshots fire Collins then, it's his system. I'm not opposed to Collins' system, I'm opposed in bringing in a player who's known to brick, a lot, the type of shots that are available in such a system. Even Gasol is a better mid-range shooter than Josh Smith.
Collins did a good job of recognizing that the team doesn't have a consistent low post option and three-point shooter so his system ended up a lot of mid-range shots being taken. Having Smith instead of Gasol won't address what the team lacks but would even make it worse since Smith loves very much to brick those long two's. Having a player like Gasol who's decent in pick-and-rolls would even help in Collins' jump-shooting system.

Best wishes for the Celtics in the ECF, but they have no stoppers for Wade and James

Which teams do?

Philly might have actually been a more difficult matchup for the Heat

A team that takes most of its shots from the mid-range against a team that's good in defending that area of the court who also have two of the best players in the league. Ok then.
It's not like the Sixers have a deep bench or a good scoring team like the Pacers or Mavs had. Granted that the Sixers do have a great defense, so do the Heat.

Well, if he was given a better team instead with the likes of James Posey, Bonzi Wells, Stromile Swift, Jason Williams, Earl Watson, Mike Miller, and Chucky Atkins then he could have won one game during those playoffs with the Grizzlies.

Those same teams were good enough for him to win up to 50 games in the regular season and you wouldn't expect a 5th or 6th seed to go down that easily. Plus, in two of those three sweeps Gasol's production went way down from what he did in the regular season.

If you want to see real soft look at Lamar Odom.

Odom at least was able to maintain a good part of his efficiency in the playoffs even when the Lakers sucked (2006, 2007).

Gasol being a better offensive player than Iguodala is better suited to carry the offense without Lou Williams.

With nobody to fill the gap on defense from losing Iguodala, which means taking away the team's biggest strength and ultimately making them far worse, because Gasol won't improve the offense as much as Iguodala improves defense.

I think Gasol is worth it else we wouldn't be even having this discussion now.

So... every trade rumor popping up is sensible and the deal would be worth it? Would you have traded Iguodala for Monta Ellis as well?

Sign and trade is out of the question with the new CBA. Sixers have to wait six months before they can trade Lou or Hawes if Sixers sign them. What's the point of keeping them until December next season if the Sixers don't want them anyway by willing to trade them and if no team wants them then the Sixers would be burdened with their huge salary if they do manage to get one.

Didn't know the new CBA doesn't allow sign-and-trades. Still, Brand's contract and/or picks (such as the totally awesome 2nd rounders we were able to get for Speights) remain decent trade assets, I'm not convinced at all about the need to trade Iggy.

If you don't want the team to shoot mid-range jumpshots fire Collins then, it's his system. I'm not opposed to Collins' system, I'm opposed in bringing in a player who's known to brick, a lot, the type of shots that are available in such a system. Even Gasol is a better mid-range shooter than Josh Smith.
Collins did a good job of recognizing that the team doesn't have a consistent low post option and three-point shooter so his system ended up a lot of mid-range shots being taken. Having Smith instead of Gasol won't address what the team lacks but would even make it worse since Smith loves very much to brick those long two's.

So you're saying that Collins is to blame for the team relying so heavily on mid-range jumpshots and then add the he uses this system because he doesn't have the personnel to play anything else on offense.
Everybody knows mid-range is the least efficient shot in basketball. It's taken from pretty long distance, but counted exactly the same as a point-blank layup. Shooting so much of those is probably a big part of the reason why this season there were only 10 teams worse on offense than the Sixers. And if you know the Sixers are only good for mid-range jumpers, doesn't it get a lot easier to guard that area when they can't hurt you from anywhere else? Iguodala actually became a good 3-point shooter this season, making 39% while taking over three a game.

Which teams do?

Well, nobody can completely shut them down of course but some teams at least have somebody to make their life more difficult. If it wasn't for Rose going down, the Bulls would have been in the ECF with Brewer and Deng. Even the Sixers have Turner and Iguodala. And I bet LeBron still remembers Shawn Marion from the last finals. Who do the Celtics have? Allen was even getting owned by the Sixers and Pierce moves with an agility of a 50-year old. Perhaps they'll give Pietrus more minutes, but even so, they have to count on Garnett's help more than anything. And, of course, they also have Sasha Pavlovic...

A team that takes most of its shots from the mid-range against a team that's good in defending that area of the court who also have two of the best players in the league. Ok then.

Where do the Celtics take most of their shots from then?

It's not like the Sixers have a deep bench or a good scoring team like the Pacers or Mavs had. Granted that the Sixers do have a great defense, so do the Heat.

The Celtics have a D-League bench and the 4th worst offense in the NBA.