Malone & Payton will probably join Lakers.

by **MAKAVELI THE DON** on Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:10 pm

Andrew said it best, when he said adding Payton & Malone, won't garuentee a title!

How in the world are you going to have Gary Payton, Kobe, Shaq & Karl Malone on the same squad for a whole 82 games in a season. Especially now that Kobe is the main player and primary scorer rather than Shaq and his points going up?

It has to be either LA adds Malone or Payton, not both! If I were LA, I'd go after Gilbert Arenas, who is a heck of a scorer, passer & shooter, and he will give more than 12/13 points or more, and won't disrupt the their offense!

by **airtsinelas** on Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:12 pm

Signing these two guys is a short-term solution for the Lakers. Both weakness on those positions would help with G-Payton and The Mailman but again, it's not a long term solution but it help carry off the big load Kobe and Shaq has for the last few years, if the cpmbo would be willing.

by **LeBron James** on Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:30 pm

if kobe avarages 32.0 ppg,shaq 27 ppg,then i think malone avarage in lakers will be 15.6 ppg.and glove avarage 14.6 ppg but 9.0 assists per game -man its useful.

by **scubilete** on Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:42 pm

Colin wrote:You saw what happened for the first 3 seasons or w/e when kobe and Shaq first got together.

You meant when they had Van Exel & Eddie Jones?.

There's a whole difference between Payton & Van Exel. I'd love to get Van Exel back but he was not organized to play with a Center like Shaq, he was better for Showtime, running & jumping all over. Payton is organized and knows best how to play with low post players like Malone & Shaq are. Also, Jones was another kind of player who liked to run all over and play fast like Kobe does, Kobe was not getting playing time and when he was getting any, he was trying to shoot as much as he could, knowing that soon Eddie was coming back into the court.

That was a happy/hype team with no success. That combination was never going to work for Playoffs, let's ask the Mavs, who even after they got a bunch of stars & better players, can never be considered a real championship team.

(If they stay healthy) Adding Malone & Payton might guarantee a tittle, nobody will care about the Spurs but again, everyone will have to beat LA to become the Champs. I just don't see Malone playing for that kind of money but knowing that he's almost retiring, his season numbers are getting low (even when he was the main option in his team), someone like him in his place would accept the deal for a championship.

Regarding Payton, I don't see Payton playing for that kind of money at all. Payton is a 14 y veteran, who doesn't get injured that often, he still has over 3 more years to play in the league and can get a try in any of those, that's not Malone case who should retire after the next 2 seasons.

by **Matt** on Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:58 pm

if both Malone and Payton join, how the hell are the Lakers gonna be stopped??? Triple teaming Shaq will leave Malone open instead of Horry or Walker and they'll have Payton as well

Lakers even might challenge the 72-10 record? who knows, this is disappointing for everybody but Laker fans

by **Boyk** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 12:08 am

Us Lakers fans have been saying this for a longtime.
now half of it will most likely come true.

by **LeBron James** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:55 am

i am not lakers fan.but malone to lakers damn-too strong club.65 wins.

by **putodelagoa** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:57 am

It has to be either LA adds Malone or Payton, not both! If I were LA, I'd go after Gilbert Arenas, who is a heck of a scorer, passer & shooter, and he will give more than 12/13 points or more, and won't disrupt the their offense!

Payton is light years ahead of Arenas sin a serious number of issues. While it's true Arenas still have a looooooot of time ahead, he doesn't have the maturity, the Playoff and Finals experience, the defensive ability, or the mental toughness of Payton.
I believe that a player that is 21, like Arenas, whith everithing to prove is in NO way a good fit with a Veteran team like the Lakers, as he would never think "Team", before "Arenas".

. I believe that Malone would be a nice fit. He is still a top tier Forward, even if i think he needs a lot of touches to be effective, as he furthers himself from the paint. But he would show Shaq how to keep himself in form, and bring a straight forward attitude to a team that tends to rely too much on its "mistique". ...

This would not be a common 4 star team, as all of them have the Finals experience, the maturity to defer to the next one, and two of them want to go away into the sunset not only as Hall of Famers but also as NBA champions.

by **Jackal** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 5:44 am

MAKAVELI THE DON wrote:
1)Andrew said it best, when he said adding Payton & Malone, won't garuentee a title!

2)Especially now that Kobe is the main player and primary scorer rather than Shaq and his points going up?

1) All respect to yours and Andrew's opinions, and yes it is a fact that it's not a garunteed win, but it is a pretty damn good chance at winning it all, that's all most of us here mean. We're not SURE but we're saying its the best possible chance.

2) Even though Kobe is the main player ( I think its shaq still but that's maybe cuz I'm his fan :wink:

.) yes, even though as you say he is the main player we all saw how saddend he is was when they were eliminated, so his main goal would be to WIN. That's all its about, winning.
I dont think he would mind his points going down for a season (or two?) as long as they have a good shot at winning it all...I doubt he would have a problem.

About the conflict that mite arise between the players, I don't think that would be much of a problem with a zen master like Phil, as me and Kobe4MVP said to eachother online.
I think if they can sign these two players, its a DAMN good shot at winning it all.
And yes, if they do sign these players, all laker fans will be rejoicing. But for the time being all we can do is wait wait wait. Wait to see if they sign, wait to see which numbers will be assigned, wait to see how they will play together and ofcourse wait to see them hoist the trophy ( I put the last one in just to bother the hell out of you Laker haterzz

. )

by **Vins15** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 6:41 am

in my opinion (no offense to Laker fans) i think Kobe would mind a little so will Shaq...they both want to score more..but they if this year they could take the sacrafise the Lakers will be good but if those two wants to score more then i don't think Malone and Payton should join the team

by **air gordon** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 8:02 am

malone in a laker uniform breaking jabar's scoring record? eek...
and if i'm not mistaken he does need to average 18+ over the next 2 seasons (2,014 pts) to break it.

i'm not one to rain on the laker's parade. i'm just trying to look at this realistically:

shaq has already made comments that phil needs to find a way to get him the ball more. he can't be "running up and down the court for 15 minutes and not touch the ball". i'm assuming shaq will come back in shape next season and will want to remind the league he's the most dominating force in the league (=more shot attempts).

the lakers have 2 superstars already on the team and both superstars are complaining about not getting enough shot attempts. adding 2 more players that have been the #1 scoring options for most of their career surely doesn't help this situation.

and this talk of "it's going to work out because they will sacrifice for the ring". this sounds like the same BS the 2000 Blazers were saying. i could understand Malone giving up some shot attempts for the team, but let's keep in mind he still wants to break the scoring record also. Malone has gone on record saying he doesn't want to win a title riding on someone else's coat-tails.

and is it really possible for 2 players who have been #1 scoring options for most of their career to successfully adjust to becoming 3rd/4th options? let alone do it ONE YEAR?

if they were to get GP and Malone, no doubt that's a great team on paper. as the cliche goes, championships aren't won on paper. recently, there hasn't been a team that has made major changes (such as this possible change) and win the nba championship.

by **spurs21** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:01 am

i hope spurs will be in finals-not lakers.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 5:02 pm

Lakers even might challenge the 72-10 record?

For the Lakers to do that, they'll have to kick this whole "switch" business. They can't find interest in competing when it matters if they want to storm through the regular season. They'll have to compete from Day 1, just like all the other teams who have come close to the 70 win plateau - and the one team that managed to break it.

That more than anything else was the problem with the Lakers last season - their attitude, especially Shaq and Phil. I'm not sure if the same attitude carried through to the lockerroom and in execution of their gameplan, but the way Shaq and Phil spoke to the media, it was like every other team wasn't even close to the Lakers, that any wins their opponents picked up were purely luck.

The Lakers need to get rid of the way of thinking and compete. That begins and ends with Shaq and Phil, who are really the only ones who at least appear to think this way.

1) All respect to yours and Andrew's opinions, and yes it is a fact that it's not a garunteed win, but it is a pretty damn good chance at winning it all, that's all most of us here mean. We're not SURE but we're saying its the best possible chance.

No question, it's an impressive lineup and the Lakers would be one of the favourites to win the title - as if they wouldn't have been anyway. But the possibility remains that the new formula might blow up in their face. I think they'd be better off improving their attitude, focus and competitive spirit rather than filling their roster with big names.

i could understand Malone giving up some shot attempts for the team, but let's keep in mind he still wants to break the scoring record also. Malone has gone on record saying he doesn't want to win a title riding on someone else's coat-tails.

Thus it's interesting that Malone is contemplating the Lakers. Didn't he say he felt offended by Utah's plans to offer him a much lower salary? Now he's willing to work for the exception, or even the minimum? A title might be more appealing than a bigger salary, but as you pointed out he's also stated that he doesn't want an easy ride to the title.

Sure, he reserves the right to change his mind, but when certain other NBA legends change their mind, they endure a lot of criticism and bashing. Still, it's Malone's decision to make, not ours.

if they were to get GP and Malone, no doubt that's a great team on paper. as the cliche goes, championships aren't won on paper. recently, there hasn't been a team that has made major changes (such as this possible change) and win the nba championship.

My thoughts exactly. A great team on paper, and a team with a great shot at winning it all. But not necessarily a recipe for guaranteed success.

by **LeBron James** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:38 pm

spurs21 wrote:i hope spurs will be in finals-not lakers.

i hope that too.lakers 70 wins???camm oooon forget it,its impossible.

by **Swoosh** on Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:47 pm

Jason kidd, change ur signature pls, its way too big.
And the 70-record would only be possible if they get -like andrew said- there attitude straight, and i've read here, shaq and kobe want MORE SHOTS ??!!! , they are getting ALL the shots, thats about the stupidest thing i ever heard, i understand they both want the ball a lot but basketball is a team sport and those two are just egos who think they are the best in the world(ironically they are of course :wink:

), but this is the perfect example of "getting in it over your head", really i didnt like shaq and kobe but after reading this, its like two kids looking to blame everyone but themselves, im sorry cant help it but thats how i feel, all that talk about great supporting cast, if u have one, u dont need to take so many shots, and if they sign payton or malone they would have two all star clutch shooters which means they should be willing to give the ball up also, and with those two cocky egos it just doesnt seem a great idea to sign payton or malone imo.

by **putodelagoa** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:57 am

Let's just forget about all the Bad stuff that could, should , would, happen with a team revolving around 4 star players.

1.In NO way you can compare a Laker team starting Payton, Bryant, Malone and O'Neal with the 2000 Blazers, which had sure a lot of talent but no individual remotely as good as any one of these. Yes ,that includes Rasheed Wallace, that has the talent, but no smarts...

2.There has never been a team featuring 4 future Hall of Famers, still playing at high level.

3.Sharing the ball would never be a problem as the Depth problem would still be there. So having other 2 players capable of putting up 20 points whenever called upon for, must be a plus, in a team that struggles mightly as Bryant or O'Neal spend time in the Bench.

4. Malone and Payton are able to contribute in many ways that not only scoring. Both are excelent, tough defenders ( is there any need to point this out?), great passers, good shooters, smart players, that will run the triangle beautifully.

5. Both put the Ego problem apart as soon as they know they are still top 20 talent and accept beeing paid with peanuts.

6. As we saw last year, bringing back the Lakers to title contention isn't such an easy task. And Malone wouldn't be taking a lift here, he would be a sure contributor, not a spectator. He is no Mitch Ritchmond.

7. So, assuming that the rookies will be able to provide some depth, Devean George finally steps up, they get wise and keep Horry for a minimum, this will be a memorable team.

by **GloveGuy** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:35 am

jason kidd wrote:
spurs21 wrote:i hope spurs will be in finals-not lakers.

i hope that too.lakers 70 wins???camm oooon forget it,its impossible.

If it were impossible, then how has it happend before? Anything like this is possible.

I imagine that it would be most tough on everyone on the team, except Payton, Malone, Shaq, and Kobe. Luke Walton and Brian Cook aren't going to have any time to develop, since their team is in a "win now" mode; Robert Horry probably won't be in at the end of close games anymore; Derek Fisher and Brian Shaw are gonna have to share ten minutes of playing time. When you bring in two clutch 40 minute players, then it's sure gonna be tough on the bench players. I bet Devean George is gonna feel like the odd one out in the starting lineup.

This team probably won't win 70, especially since they've only been with eachother for a year.

by **Robby** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:55 am

Robert Horry said has said that he isn't going to be back with the Lakers. My guess is that Fox will start along with the 4 stars instead of George. And I think that this team has a really good shot at breaking the 72-10 mark of the 96 Bulls who weren't together for very long either.

by **LeBron James** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:09 am

Robby wrote:Robert Horry said has said that he isn't going to be back with the Lakers. My guess is that Fox will start along with the 4 stars instead of George. And I think that this team has a really good shot at breaking the 72-10 mark of the 96 Bulls who weren't together for very long either.

lakers needs a good 3-point shooter.if horry goes away,there are no clutch players exept fox.horry have rescued lakers all the time-last second winning shot.lakers will regret that.

by **Robby** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:01 am

Horry was terrible in the 2003 NBA PLayoffs so the Lakers won't miss him too much. Fisher and Fox will still be there and they're good three point shooters. Bryant, Payton, Shaw, and George can also knock down clutch three pointers. Adding Malone will help tremendously because he can help Shaq rebound much more than Horry ever could, which in turn will help other parts of Shaq's game, like his shot blocking because he won't have to worry about boxing out on each possesion. For next season, I expect both Shaq and Malone to average double figures in rebounding which in turn will help limit the other teams' shot attempts.

by **Swoosh** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:26 am

[quote="putodelagoa"]
5. Both put the Ego problem apart as soon as they know they are still top 20 talent and accept beeing paid with peanuts.

I think u are missing the point but its not about payton and malone putting aside their ego, its bryant and o'neal who have to put their ego aside, which is o-so-big

Now for robby,the lakers can miss horry but u cant deny that horry made great clutch plays for them, saying he is expandable is the same like saying that parker for the spurs is expandable because he sucked in game 3 and 5 of the finals(dunno sure if it where those two but it were at least two), thats just bullsh*t, if they get payton and malone, they will idd have enough clutch shooters so that wont be a problem and i have to agree with that. But shaq and malone double figures in rebounds, dunno bout that, could be but dont count on it, if shaq is in shape hes gonna claim most of the rebounds, and kobe gets a lot as well, its all about egos fighting with the lakers(for the lakers fans im sorry but i cant help it, i admit they are(were) a great team but its just me and something against really dominant teams, im for the underdog :wink:

)

by **air gordon** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:39 am

lakers fans- don't get your panties in a bunch just yet- you're acting like GP and Malone have already signed with LAL.

comments such as the ones made by malone are schemes for gaining leverage on the teams that are trying to sign them. this kind of talk by players and their respective agents is common around the free agency signing period.

this is similar to the all the hoopla surrounding the days leading up to the draft. there are countless draft day trades that are supposed to go down but never happen....

please hold off on the stat/minute predictions

by **Robby** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:54 am

limpdilznik: I don't know about Payton, but Malone is not really using this as a negotiating ploy. He doesn't really want to be in Utah because his main goal is a ring, not money. His list included the Lakers, Mavs, Kings, and Spurs. Kings are out because Clark is back and the Spurs are out because they won the championship. The Mavs made Mourning their biggest priority so that scenario appears unlikely. So, the only other team left is LA, and both sides want to get this done. Phil Jackson said, subtly, during the playoffs that he'd like to have Malone and Shaq has also "oked" the attempt to acquire Malone. Also, Malone has said repeatedly in his career that the guy he would most like to be his teammate is Shaq and this is a great chance for that to happen.

by **Robby** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:10 am

Swoosh: Horry has made clutch plays for the Lakers for a long time but he was terrible in almost every game in these past playoffs, unlike Parker who had many good games. Also, it's a bit farfetched to compare Parker and Horry because Horry was a distant thrid or fourth option on offense for the Lakers where as Parker was the second option for the Spurs. As for Shaq and Malone in double figure rebounding, I just think that Phil will tell Shaq to play more aggresively on defense and block more shots, just like he did in the 99-00 season when the Lakers went 67-15, and Shaq doesn't need to worry about rebounding because Malone can help him with that. I really look at this as a better version of the 97 Rockets with Dream, Brakley, and Drexler and I believe that year both Barkley(13+) and Dream(9.2) averaged close to double figures in rebounding. But Shaq right now is better than Dream was in 97 and Malone right now is more productive than Barkley was in 97 so I think that they both will most likely average 10+ rebounds per game.

by **Wall St. Peon** on Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:16 am

In my opinion the Lakers should sign Juwan Howard and not Malone. They also should go after a point guard that's younger and not the aging Gary Payton...

Here's my reasons:

Malone is unselfish enough that he'll work with Kobe and Shaq, but the thing is that he'll be scoring 15-20ppg at the power forward position; Juwan Howard can score 15-20ppg at the power forward position, and he's younger. It's great what Malone's doing for the ring, but imo, the Lakers would be better to sign Howard and look a bit further down the road than next year.

As for Payton, he's a playmaking scorer. So's Kobe. I don't think they'd be able to coexist in a backcourt together. Malone would be the third scoring option, then Payton. Payton's been the primary scorer on his teams every year he's played, and he needs the ball in his hands. Kobe's the same way, and I think Payton's ability would be stifled in the triangle and with playing with Kobe.

It's a perfect team on paper, but the bigger they are, the harder they fall. The Lakers still have a mark on them, and the bullseye will be even bigger next year. The Nuggets, I think, have a possibility at making a run for the playoffs if they get one or two pieces to the puzzle, and Golden State and Houston are right up there as well, and Memphis is getting there...the West next year will probably be as tough as it has been.

Malone & Payton will probably join Lakers.

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