Trading Manu Ginobili?

AI isnt better than ginobilli imo.

But then again, i guess i rate defence somewhat

I doubt Ginobili's going anywhere anytime soon given he's supposedly going to be out for months rather than weeks after surgery. Not that there's a rule preventing him for being traded but it would be somewhat of a gamble giving up a key player or players to get him and then try to hold the fort until he recovers, if we are in fact talking months rather than weeks.

Manu Ginobili is clearly in the TOP 5 SG's in the NBA. The SG's that I would put in front of him right now, not past is Kobe and Wade. I would put AI in front of him but I see him as a PG and he is falling off. If Manu is the first option on the team and didn't have TD nor TP then I see Manu in the TOP 3 for the Scoring title. The guy is averaging 32-33 points a game if he is playing the full 48 minutes, statistickly. So, to the Spurs he is really valuable and lets not mention that he was the Spurs leading scorer this past season off the bench, and if he was healthy last year in the WCF against the Lakers it would've been the Spurs/Celtics Finals. But that doesn't matter anymore as the new season is gonna start in about a month and a half and it's time to move on. Anyways back on the topic, he is aging and I can't see Manu in any other uniform or playing for anyone else, but I bet anything that if Manu got traded to the Lakers or the Celtics maybe even the Bulls their fans would love Manu in a good way. If the Spurs are loyal enough they would never trade any of their 3 star players but if they are looking at the future then a deal like Manu for Joe Johnson would be considered and maybe even for Deng and some fillers, but afterall I don't wanna see him traded because he will be the most hated player that I've ever watched play basketball, because if he is not on your team, I got a feeling that other teams/fans despise Manu.

I doubt a healthy Manu would have given San Antonio the Laker series. It may have made it closer- possibly 7 games, but the Spurs ran out of gas in every game. They will only be worse this year, and they will need to do something. If they keep the big 3, who can they get anything for?

He is EASILY a top 5 SG in the league, and when playing at his best, I don't know anyone who is better currently at the position.

Kobe, AI, Wade (at least).

out of those 3 & disregarding the other SG's, based on last season you would have to order it Kobe, Manu, AI, then Wade....Manu was an MVP candidate for a reason....regardless of age, I'd be very surprised if Spurs traded Manu....it just doesn't seem to be in line with their franchise philosophy....

those are big "IF"s that you guy are throwing. the thing is manu is never healthy enough to be among the top SGs in the league. And yeah, I think presence of TD & TP made easier for him to be that effective. i doubt he can be same against constant double teams and lockdown d. besides the most important thing is, even getting enuf rest all the time, the guy just can't fucking stay healthy. he has what, missed average of 15 games a season. and now he's got a foot problem again, and he always gotta be careful about his ankle. you just don't expect productive 40+min/season from this guy. and NO i don't hate him but top 5? that is a joke. I'd still take AI, Tmac, Roy over manu. player like manu is better off the bench.

If he had the opportunity, im sure he would put up 25-30ppg, 7apg, 6rpg along with 2spg on a team being the first option.

he probably could, i mean sure they would miss the playoffs but he would have a great stat line

If he had the opportunity, im sure he would put up 25-30ppg, 7apg, 6rpg along with 2spg on a team being the first option.

he probably could, i mean sure they would miss the playoffs but he would have a great stat line

Yeah he would average that if he was on a really bad team like the Knicks or the Bobcats but I can't see him in any other uni.

the thing is manu is never healthy enough to be among the top SGs in the league.

I don't know about that, he's appeared in over 70 games in four of his six seasons and never played fewer than 65 games. Considering the length of the NBA season and the risk of injury in basketball, he's been reasonably durable throughout his career so far.

^Word.

And I can only agree with DoobieKnicks. He's awesome as TD's sidekick but definitely not a goto guy for any team.

Bull. Manu is one of the more clutch players in the NBA. I would gladly have him take the last shot of the game.

Manu has the intangibles that most players don't have. And he actually plays defense.

being clutch should not determine if a player can be a lead player on a team. you could give manu the top spot on any team, that team just wont make the playoffs. he is good for what he does, make him the man and you wont get enough from him

you could give manu the top spot on any team, that team just wont make the playoffs.

So Manu is so horrible he'll make great teams worse? If we replace Rip with him and keep him at the same possession usage that he had in San Antonio, the Pistons would drop 20 wins?

you could give manu the top spot on any team, that team just wont make the playoffs.

So Manu is so horrible he'll make great teams worse? If we replace Rip with him and keep him at the same possession usage that he had in San Antonio, the Pistons would drop 20 wins?

ok they would not drop out of the playoffs, but they would drop. i have nothing to back that up other than my own opinion, i am pretty much just saying he is a great 2 or 3 option, just dont make him your go to guy all game long

Manu would make a great team leader. He already is but Duncan is basically the corner stone. I can see Manu leading a team like Michael Redd, or Vince Carter, maybe even Wade are doing. Be the star player and be the teams first option and than have one other star and great role players that fill the need.

I can see Manu leading a team like Michael Redd, or Vince Carter, maybe even Wade are doing.

So like Sauru said, they would miss the playoffs?

yeah you didnt help your arguement at all with those names lol

i'm right there with sauru as well. he's not even 2nd best man on SAS and never was even when he was 100% healthy. he was also given starting role often, but the result wasn't as great as ppl expected. overall, like sauru says, he's good for what he does but with more tasks given, i think it's gonna be a different story. especially, from now on, he might have to deal with constant foot & ankle problems. if he wanted to prove that he truly belonged to the top class players like wade, kobe, ray, AI he had to do it earlier in his career. now it seems, it's too late for him to get to that stage. furthermore, so many players benefited playing alongside TD and no1 can deny that manu also has gained some fame & spotlight from it. don't forget there were players like steve smith, sean elliot, stephen jackson, avery johnson who shined alongside TD.

Oh, you're just the gift that keeps on giving, aren't you?

he's not even 2nd best man on SAS and never was even when he was 100% healthy. he was also given starting role often, but the result wasn't as great as ppl expected.

Good thing you took a look at how he did before you made any silly claims.
[table][mrow]G[mcol]P/36[mcol]R/36[mcol]A/36[mcol]TS%[mcol]Tov%
[row]23 starts[col]22.8[col]5.4[col]5.7[col].638[col]15.0
[row]51 non-starts[col]22.5[col]5.6[col]4.9[col].599[col]14.3[/table]
35.4 minutes per game as a starter. Higher than any other player on the team. And come on, he's easily better than Parker.

don't forget there were players like steve smith, sean elliot, stephen jackson, avery johnson who shined alongside TD.

Yeah...I think you really need to find out more about these players and Manu Ginobili.

so ur saying u'd put manu ahead of Tony Parker.

ofc his stats may have been higher when started, but how was the team record. not much change which led him back to the bench. greg pop thought it was obviously for the best interest of the team.

Yeah...I think you really need to find out more about these players and Manu Ginobili.

those players played alongside TD at near the end of their career and still were productive, but manu started off the career with TD. which i think is a major difference.

i'm right there with sauru as well. he's not even 2nd best man on SAS and never was even when he was 100% healthy. he was also given starting role often, but the result wasn't as great as ppl expected. overall, like sauru says, he's good for what he does but with more tasks given, i think it's gonna be a different story. especially, from now on, he might have to deal with constant foot & ankle problems. if he wanted to prove that he truly belonged to the top class players like wade, kobe, ray, AI he had to do it earlier in his career. now it seems, it's too late for him to get to that stage. furthermore, so many players benefited playing alongside TD and no1 can deny that manu also has gained some fame & spotlight from it. don't forget there were players like steve smith, sean elliot, stephen jackson, avery johnson who shined alongside TD.

zanshadow are you joking?
First of all, Manu IS the second best player on the Spurs, and has been since 2005.
During last season, he was our best player for stretches of the year, yes, even better than Duncan. Having surgery now rather than later will be good for his career, meaning he can get it out of the way, and if he makes a full recovery, he wont have to deal with constant ankle problems.
He has already proved he can play with the best players in the league. Anyone remember how he dropped 46 on LeBron & the Cavs last season?
And yes, many players have benefited from playing next to Duncan, mostly role players. Manu is not a role player, one of the elite players in the league.
And your last sentence is 100% incorrect.
Steve Smith played only 2 season as a Spur, out of his 14 year career, and it was during his downside. How did he benefit if he was becoming worse than his previous years? He was getting old, and on the decline.
Sean Elliot played only 4 seasons with Duncan, 157 games, which is only about 39 games a season, because of his health issues. Elliott played his best days BEFORE Duncan was around. So I don't see how he benefited from playing next to Duncan, when he hardly even did so, and was also on the downside of his career.
Stephen Jackson hardly played with his first season with the Spurs, and his second season was his breakout season, averaging nearly 12 ppg. But this was as I said, his breakout year, he finally started putting the pieces together.
He has played better playing for Atlanta, Indiana and now Golden State, so he has improved since leaving the Spurs. He probably would have become a good player regardless. And I would say Gregg Popovich helped his career more than Duncan.
I wouldn't say Avery Johnson ''Shined"" next to Duncan. Its more like Avery and Robinson made Duncan shine, teaching him about how to play in the NBA. Avery was basically like the Spurs coach on the floor for the seasons he played there more than anything else. His stats and play stayed the same from when Duncan wasn't there, to when he did come.

You are wrong, try and actually have some kind of knowledge on who you are talking about before you make a ridiculous post.

those players played alongside TD at near the end of their career and still were productive, but manu started off the career with TD. which i think is a major difference.

But what does that have to do with anything? Especially in regards to Manu Ginobili.

so ur saying u'd put manu ahead of Tony Parker.

Easily. Who wouldn't prefer a player who does pretty much everything of value better?

ofc his stats may have been higher when started, but how was the team record.

What does that matter as to how well he played? You claimed he played worse, when he very clearly did not.

It is irrelevant to any evaluation of him, but the team was 16-7 when Ginobili started. A winning percentage of 69.6%, or 57 wins. In games he didn't start the team was 40-19, or 67.8%, or 55.6 wins.

(Let us note that starters are irrelevant. Who starts doesn't change the outcome of the game.)

It seems that Benji is one of the only people here who knows what they are talking about for this topic.

it depends how u see. for me, TP is rather more valuable than manu and always has been for the TEAM.

But what does that have to do with anything? Especially in regards to Manu Ginobili.

why not? he played as sidekick, same role they did. not as a leader. all winning championship.

What does that matter as to how well he played? You claimed he played worse, when he very clearly did not.

if his stats come in the expense of the team, it does matter. and i didn't say he played worse, but it wasn't as great as ppl expected. ofc, ppl would wanna see him doing more for the team if he was getting a new starting role.



i simply was responding to those who were saying he could have done this and that if was getting more minutes or was on the team where he can put up great numbers like wade and belongs to top SG class. but simply what i'm saying is that he didn't, and he's not.

for me, TP is rather more valuable than manu and always has been for the TEAM.

Got any reasons why, or are we just flying by emotions again?

why not? he played as sidekick, same role they did. not as a leader. all winning championship.

Except they were completely different players in completely different circumstances. Sam already went through this.

if his stats come in the expense of the team, it does matter.

Explain. Because I'd love to see the logic behind "a player who shoots 64% hurts his team."

and i didn't say he played worse, but it wasn't as great as ppl expected.

I thought people expect players to replicate their performances. So not meeting them would be "worse" while Manu was indeed "better."

i simply was responding to those who were saying he could have done this and that if was getting more minutes or was on the team where he can put up great numbers like wade and belongs to top SG class. but simply what i'm saying is that he didn't, and he's not.

Wait a minute, I think you're confused with what you're saying.

Argument presented in this thread you are apparently responding to: If Manu was his "own" man, on his "own" team he could put up [said numbers].

Except he's never been his "own" man on his "own" team. Playing with Duncan and Parker, even if starting and playing six more minutes, a game is not "having your own team" unless the definition of that has drastically changed recently. So your evidence refuting this claim has nothing to do with the claim.

And I'd love to see why Manu doesn't belong at "the top of the SG class." I still don't think people are aware of what Manu actually does on the court outside of the flopping hyperbole. I wouldn't put him as high as Sam, but I don't see why he couldn't do 25.5/5.5/5.0 in 36 minutes on a team where he gets Wade level usage rates.

Argument presented in this thread you are apparently responding to: If Manu was his "own" man, on his "own" team he could put up [said numbers].

yeah i guess, ur right. he can post up those numbers. but likely for the shit team as him being the first option.

And I'd love to see why Manu doesn't belong at "the top of the SG class." I still don't think people are aware of what Manu actually does on the court outside of the flopping hyperbole.

depends on standards. i agree he is one of the better in the league, but i just don't think u can rank him at the top along with ai, tmac, wade.

Got any reasons why, or are we just flying by emotions again?.

TP vs Manu for the spurs? i'd say TP's done more for the team in more consistent manner. manu's been great, but his position i think is somewhat easier to replace/upgrade compared to TP's. call it my emotions if that makes u happy.