Rajon Rondo

by **The X** on Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:44 pm

good point Q, Bynum would've helped & let players slide to right positions....

overall, I look at Lakers team, I think they can win next year with same team plus Bynum, minus Radmanovic, more minutes for Ariza, add a vet like Posey for playoff run & Bob is your uncle....start Farmar too....Fisher as 6th man....

by **BIG GREEN** on Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:07 am

Hmm...I have a hard-on for Rondo now.

by **Sauru** on Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:09 am

personally i think way too much blame is on odom and gasol, sure they didnt step up for the lakers but then again neither did kobe. its funny how when kobe fucks up all people say is " he needs help", the man fucking sucked in the finals and you dont really hear people talk about it. now alot of his game has to be credited to the celtics defense so again if his problems can be put on the celtics just playing so good then why not put some of odoms and gasols troubles on the defense also?

by **Happymeal** on Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:34 am

Yeah, I think the lakers desperately need bynum back.. KG is a beast inside though he didn't show it too much in the finals.. and he had a quickness advantage over gasol.. leaving wide open jumpshots over him, getting back on topic though.. rondo is a beast at home, maybe not so much away because there's a lot of pressure from everyone.. the fans.. and just the overall environment is totally different.. you make a bad mistake.. you got ten thousands of people screaming at you

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:10 pm

I didn't mean that as a sleight against Odom or Gasol, more a comment on Rondo's struggles on the road. Being a player who's still a bit green in some respects, it's not surprising that he wasn't at his best on the road in the biggest games of his NBA career to date. With players like Odom and Gasol who are more established, the expectations tends to be greater thanks to the standards they've set for themselves.

by **NovU** on Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:10 pm

Happymeal wrote:Yeah, I think the lakers desperately need bynum back.. KG is a beast inside though he didn't show it too much in the finals.. and he had a quickness advantage over gasol.. leaving wide open jumpshots over him, getting back on topic though.. rondo is a beast at home, maybe not so much away because there's a lot of pressure from everyone.. the fans.. and just the overall environment is totally different.. you make a bad mistake.. you got ten thousands of people screaming at you

i thought kg did well but got less credit in the finals cuz of lopsided victories and stuff. and kg's presence itself always helped big especially on defensive end. it was one of the biggest reason lakers' big men couldn't do well in the paint and it also caused kobe to take jump shots, not allowing penetration. so it did sorta seem like he was passive but he was the main focal point in boston's d, making perimeter defenders' job easy.

Andrew wrote:I didn't mean that as a sleight against Odom or Gasol, more a comment on Rondo's struggles on the road. Being a player who's still a bit green in some respects, it's not surprising that he wasn't at his best on the road in the biggest games of his NBA career to date. With players like Odom and Gasol who are more established, the expectations tends to be greater thanks to the standards they've set for themselves.

yeah, thought they were too soft, especially, odom. even when kg and perkins were on the bench, they didn't provide much. especially odom against a tough d, he seems he chokes too much and makes bad decisions all the time. and for gasol, he usually plays off good passes but he rarely got them. so i thought there wasn't much that gasol could do alone on the offensive end in the finals.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:20 pm

Sauru wrote:personally i think way too much blame is on odom and gasol, sure they didnt step up for the lakers but then again neither did kobe. its funny how when kobe fucks up all people say is " he needs help", the man fucking sucked in the finals and you dont really hear people talk about it. now alot of his game has to be credited to the celtics defense so again if his problems can be put on the celtics just playing so good then why not put some of odoms and gasols troubles on the defense also?

Quite true, Kobe is kind of getting a free pass compared to Gasol and Odom. I agree that the Celtics did a great job in that respect but I'm still surprised he didn't have a better series from a personal standpoint. I expected he'd at least be getting 30 a game by hook or by crook, even if his other numbers weren't spectacular. Mind you, his performance seems to have made a lot of people re-think the comparisons to Michael Jordan so I think he's weathering some criticism.

by **Sauru** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:03 am

i think people are just realizing how bad it was to ever compare him to jordan in the first place.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:06 am

I wouldn't go that far, but it seems people are backing off placing him on the same level as (or higher than) Jordan so perhaps they feel they jumped the gun a bit. I'm sure there's still a lot of people whose opinion remains unchanged though.

by **Sauru** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:42 am

i still say, kobe needs to be the second best player ever before we can try to compare him to jordan. anyone here that would honestly put kobe number 2 all time?

by **njkobe** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:14 pm

Sauru,we can either compare kobe to a 29-year old MJ, or compare them after Kobe after he retires. Otherwise, it's not gonna be fair. Well, MJ has never scored 81 in his entire career anyway

by **Sauru** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:05 pm

njkobe wrote:Sauru,we can either compare kobe to a 29-year old MJ, or compare them after Kobe after he retires. Otherwise, it's not gonna be fair. Well, MJ has never scored 81 in his entire career anyway

ok by your arguement, kobe is better than mj but still ends second to wilt so he loses either way

by **BIG GREEN** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:09 pm

Another mature kobe supporter who's obviously going to contribute fair, concise and objective posts has began to muster. (Looks at "njkobe's" other recent posts) ...yep...i'm correct.

by **NovU** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:38 pm

kobe vs jordan comparison is simply stupid.

that's for younger nba fans that hasn't seen jordan's era.

i may sound bit harsh, but that's wut most of people think, i assume.

whether jordan was the greatest or not, he was more famous than nba the league itself. even foreign non basketball watchers wanted to see piece of jordan action.

he was more than a nba player. more like a figure that represents the basketball as a sport.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:34 pm

Sauru wrote:anyone here that would honestly put kobe number 2 all time?

I reckon there would be. A couple of years back we had that thread here in NBA Talk about the greatest guards in Lakers history. More than a few people opined that Kobe was "far above" Magic and that Jerry West was a "distant third".

njkobe wrote:Sauru,we can either compare kobe to a 29-year old MJ, or compare them after Kobe after he retires. Otherwise, it's not gonna be fair. Well, MJ has never scored 81 in his entire career anyway

But people do make the comparisons now and people do suggest he's on the same level or better. Also, if we're going to make comparisons as to who's done what, MJ has his fair share of accomplishments that Kobe hasn't yet matched or bettered.

by **[Q]** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:24 pm

well if Magic didn't screw around with so many girls, he could've stayed in the league another 7 or 8 years, solidifying his legend status in Laker and NBA history. but now, sadly enough, Mark Jackson sits on top of him in the all-time assists category. Magic would've given Stockton a run for his money. in 6 or 7 seasons, he could've easily passed Stockton's mark.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:45 pm

He averaged slightly over three more assists per game than Mark Jackson over the course of his career though. Had he not retired in 1991 his totals would perhaps still rank first overall though twelve seasons (eventually thirteen with his comeback in 1996) is still enough to carve out an impressive legacy.

by **The X** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:25 pm

Andrew wrote:
Sauru wrote:anyone here that would honestly put kobe number 2 all time?

I reckon there would be. A couple of years back we had that thread here in NBA Talk about the greatest guards in Lakers history. More than a few people opined that Kobe was "far above" Magic and that Jerry West was a "distant third".

Ridiculous, but not surprising :roll:

atm I'd definitely have him behind Magic & probably have him 3rd behind Jerry West (although once all is said & done, he'll probably end up a close 2nd in Lakers' guards), but ahead of guys like Gail Goodrich....

as for Kobe, it's too hard to say where he stands until his career ends....atm, I definitely wouldn't put him in my top 10 of All-Time, although he'd probably crack my top 20 of All-Time....definitely All-Time great, but his legacy has not been completely written yet....

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:41 pm

I think there's a strong case for him being at least top twenty based on his accomplishment and his talent, though his career post-Shaq has obviously been marred by shortcomings such as missing the postseason in 2005 after leading the Lakers to record above .500 as late as February, a couple of first round playoff exits including the meltdown in 2006 after going up 3-1 and of course not performing as well as expected in the 2008 Finals allowing the Game 4 meltdown and shooting just 40% on the series.

His NBA resume is impressive but aside from the 81 point game and his scoring average in 2005/2006, his time as "The Man" in Los Angeles hasn't made him crack the top ten in my book. Still, not that's not so much a sleight on him as a testament to the all-time greats who make up that top ten and contend for the title of greatest ever.

by **Sauru** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:58 pm

i think in the end people look at points and points alone. they dont consider all the other stats or the current state of the game. in todays game those all time greats would probably have thier scoring average take a 4 point jump, possibly more imo

by **BIG GREEN** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:03 pm

That's something i've always said where it comes to the likes of oscar robertson (considered a big guy at 6'5" back then) averaging a triple double and wilt scoring 100 points. The thing that gets me is that if you ask those legends..they dare to say they would do the same today or better. I hope I never become a jaded old fart.

Magic would still have a great advantage today being a 6'9" guard so i'm 100% sure he would still dominate the league today.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:08 pm

Sauru wrote:i think in the end people look at points and points alone. they dont consider all the other stats or the current state of the game. in todays game those all time greats would probably have thier scoring average take a 4 point jump, possibly more imo

Definitely, I've seen "81" used as the be-all, end-all argument in favour of Kobe. While it was a staggering accomplishment, there has to be a wider criteria than that otherwise David Thompson ranks ahead of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell and everyone else except Wilt and Kobe.

by **Sauru** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:40 pm

BIG GREEN wrote:That's something i've always said where it comes to the likes of oscar robertson (considered a big guy at 6'5" back then) averaging a triple double and wilt scoring 100 points. The thing that gets me is that if you ask those legends..they dare to say they would do the same today or better. I hope I never become a jaded old fart.

Magic would still have a great advantage today being a 6'9" guard so i'm 100% sure he would still dominate the league today.

see i think it works both ways. i think if you throw a jordan,magic,bird and so on into todays game thier average goes up. they find themselves on the line even more since the rules greatly favor offense right now. i think alot of the legends get pushed around in todays game though. the old time big men are not so big by todays standards. then you can flip that though and say that a player like iverson would get called for traveling nearly every play back then, if he didnt change his game. i personally still consider the 80's and 90's the greatest era in the game so those players get bonus points if you will, when i consider the greatest of all time.

Andrew wrote:
Definitely, I've seen "81" used as the be-all, end-all argument in favour of Kobe. While it was a staggering accomplishment, there has to be a wider criteria than that otherwise David Thompson ranks ahead of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell and everyone else except Wilt and Kobe.

that is a big problem. 81 is great and all but it by no means proves 1 player is greater than another

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:51 pm

The same goes for Wilt's 100 or The Big O's triple double year. Both are amazing feats and worthy of admiration but one accomplishment alone isn't enough criteria.

YouTube · by **shadowgrin** on Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:22 am

Andrew wrote:
Sauru wrote:anyone here that would honestly put kobe number 2 all time?

I reckon there would be. A couple of years back we had that thread here in NBA Talk about the greatest guards in Lakers history. More than a few people opined that Kobe was "far above" Magic and that Jerry West was a "distant third".

I'm all for discussing opinions and arguments but I would flat out say that is retarded.
Speaking of Lakers...

The X wrote:I look at Lakers team, I think they can win next year with same team plus Bynum, minus Radmanovic, more minutes for Ariza, add a vet like Posey for playoff run & Bob is your uncle....start Farmar too....Fisher as 6th man....

What the hell did Phil do with Ariza? Why didn't he give Ariza more minutes, I recall that Ariza had a good stretch in one game particularly the first half where he was defending, blocking and even shooting a three. In the second half he disappeared in the bench.

Rajon Rondo

Who is online