Are the knicks the worst team in the league?

[Jeffx]

Yes the knicks are easily the worst team in the NBA. You may say the Bobcats but they've beaten the knicks 2-0 so far this year.

Let's see.
knicks got highest payroll
knicks have a lot of talent
knicks have a hall of fame coach
knicks live in the basketball mecca

for them to play at the level of an expanision team is unacceptable. Clearly something is wrong. They have -0% chemistry. Yes, negative zero. They just sign a bunch of players, trade for names, sign a coach cause of his reputation, throw it all together and nothing goes right.
To top it off they decided to gasp everyone this year by winning 6 in a row. Win 6, then lose like 24 of 26 games? Bobcats hanging tough with that talent they got minus emeka. Knicks, show no signs of anything.

They don't do the two things critical to winning basketball, defend & rebound. All Isiah did was put together a fantasy basketball team with no thought to role players and chemistry. When you look at how Joe Dumars & Isiah built their respective teams, you'd never think they played together. Not having a real PG makes things worse.

Any other GM would have been fired over this disaster, but brain-dead Dolan still believes Isiah's doing a great job. This franchise is a f-n joke.

[Laxation]

i dont see charlotte nearly on the same level as knicks because bobcats actually have the capabilities to get better. the knicks are just screwed for years to come.

[The_Flying_Tomato]

it all goes to the cap problems. charlotte uses the least money in the league with about 33 million, new york uses the most with 123.5 million. So polar opposites on cap space, yet the knicks are just as poor.

[cyanide]

Let's see.
knicks got highest payroll
knicks have a lot of talent
knicks have a hall of fame coach
knicks live in the basketball mecca

That's enough to declare them the worst team. Their chemistry is horrendous.

[benji]

They aren't the worst team this season in terms of actual basketball played. But considering they don't really have youth (or it won't be played) and are in such a horrible situation cap wise they get the nod over Portland which is 2.5 points a game worse, but has quite a bit of young talent to develop.

Bobcats are 20-53 (22-60 pace also), but they are really a 28-54 team. And should be 25-48.
Knicks are 19-52 (22-60 pace), but they are really a 23-59 team. And should be 20-51.
Blazers are 20-51 (23-59 pace), but they are really a 17-65 team. And should be 15-56.

Point differential is a better indicator of how good a team is than their win-loss record.

And the Knicks actually do rebound, they're fourth in the league in rebounding. 14th on the defensive end, but fourth on the offensive end. They're last in the league in turnovers (at nearly a turnover more per 100 poss than the next worst team) costing them roughly three points a game compared to the average. And 25th in shooting percentage from the floor.

[Amphatoast]

25th in shooting %.....4th in offensive rebound.... get the point? shoot bricks more offensive rebounds. Stats can be misleading. Knicks are not good on rebounds. Not on a night in and out basis

[Laxation]

I dont think benji is aware that stats, whilst they may be a good indicator, dont tell the whole story...

[macca33]

knicks are worst team as they have two identical selfish guards (marbury, francis) and no defensive rebounding, shot-blocking players that can force turnovers etc. And they have no excuses whatsoever, unlike charlotte and portland, as they've both had injuries (miles, okafor/wallace). no wonder larry brown wants tyrus thomas!!!!

jeffx is spot on... thomas has put together a fantasy team (a poor one i might add) that has overpaid, underachieving ballhogs with identical games who all want to be the best and score the most, where atleast charlotte and portland don't come close to having the most expensive rosters and have players who cover different areas! btw jerome james worse free agent signing ever... isiah wtf were u thinking?

[benji]

25th in shooting %.....4th in offensive rebound.... get the point? shoot bricks more offensive rebounds. Stats can be misleading. Knicks are not good on rebounds. Not on a night in and out basis

Except they are.

Let's take a look at the per game numbers since that's what you're thinking about. Knicks grab 42.1 rebounds per game, eighth in the league. (29.1 defensive, 20th...12.9 defensive, 3rd)

But why would I be using per game since I know that's dependent on the amount of shot attempts and misses in a game? (Check the rebounding page in my sig kids.)

Instead I was using rebounding percentage. The Knicks grab 51.9% of rebounds (4th) including 31.4% on the offensive end (4th) and 72.8% on the defensive end (14th).

The Knicks shooting percentage is completely irrelevant here. There have been 2914 rebounding opportunities so far this season on the Knicks end of the court. They have snagged 916 of these, 31.4%, or fourth most in the league.

Whether you like it or not, the Knicks are a top five rebounding team.

I dont think benji is aware that stats, whilst they may be a good indicator, dont tell the whole story...

I'm aware of the fact stats "don't tell the whole story" but I and others are certainly striving to find how to understand the "whole story". And in this case, they do tell the whole story. Or would you contend that a good rebounding team doesn't necessarily grab more rebounds than their opponents?

Because that makes me have to quote a wise Russian once again...

...that is almost as stupid as saying that Team A should have gotten the win despite scoring less points than Team B, because it looked better in the game or because it had better players.

[CERVANTES]

What an amount of numbers...

Well, what I can say is that Knicks is the only team that doesn't fight to win games, they just go to the arena, play and "let's go home". At least Bobcats and Hawks are trying to win games, and I can't see that on your numbers Ben.

[shadowgrin]

(Check the rebounding page in my sig kids.)

Interesting read that, Stats Wuv You series.
Especially for a former stats addict like myself.
Nice way to spark up an old addiction of mine benji. I'll be cursing your name in rehab!

Maybe the Knicks are considered the worse team because of a combination of other factors such as horrible management, contracts, over-rated players that have huge egos, and a coach that refuses to adjust his style.

[Laxation]

Or would you contend that a good rebounding team doesn't necessarily grab more rebounds than their opponents?

Thats not what I said or meant, and its pretty obvious, so why the fuck would you say it?

[benji]

Because it's the only logical conclusion one can gather from you saying that somehow the stats aren't telling the whole story on the Knicks rebounding. That somehow despite their fourth place standing, they're actually a bad rebounding team.

Besides, your username implies more than whatever you actually said.

[BIG GREEN]

I reckon Portland trailblazers are worst than the knicks.

[Jeffx]

I reckon Portland trailblazers are worst than the knicks.

Portland's GM can't outdo Isiah - that's why the Knicks are the worst, hands down. Check out these quotes from former CBA team owner Rich Coffey on Isiah(from Sunday's Newsday).


"....He's a laughingstock. People are laughing at him, which means they're laughing at New York....he has not been successful as an NBA coach or a businessman...he has done nothing well except play the game. He has no business sense. There's a reason he failed in the CBA and a reason he made the Knicks the worst franchise in basketball. He doesn't know what he's doing.....I feel sorry for the fans. They're getting screwed. It's painful to watch the Knicks. They were bad last year, they'll be bad next year. It won't change."

"If Isiah was so smart, he would've gotten that (Detroit)job instead of Dumars. Somebody in New York didn't do their due diligence. That owner in New York was star-struck, and if you meet Isiah, you are star-struck. We were too, until we found out he's not a very nice person, and until people started hesitating because of what they'd heard."

"There are five people in my office who can manage the cap, hire talent, realize chemistry and do a better job in their sleep than Isiah."

....and there it is. Some of you younger Knicks fans are more optimistic than I am. I'm telling you, don't get your hopes for the next few seasons. With Dolan & Isiah in charge, Knicks are over.

[Jugs]

As a Trailblazers fan, The Trailblazers just suck. Because they're youngens and havent got the cap flexibility yet to get that talent.

[axare]

New York are the worst TEAM and Isiah Thomas made horrible deal and now their cap space is like a pile of crap

[shadowgrin]

"....He's a laughingstock. People are laughing at him, which means they're laughing at New York....he has not been successful as an NBA coach or a businessman...he has done nothing well except play the game. He has no business sense. There's a reason he failed in the CBA and a reason he made the Knicks the worst franchise in basketball. He doesn't know what he's doing.....I feel sorry for the fans. They're getting screwed. It's painful to watch the Knicks. They were bad last year, they'll be bad next year. It won't change."

"There are five people in my office who can manage the cap, hire talent, realize chemistry and do a better job in their sleep than Isiah."

....and there it is. Some of you younger Knicks fans are more optimistic than I am. I'm telling you, don't get your hopes for the next few seasons. With Dolan & Isiah in charge, Knicks are over.

Wow.
I doubt Jeffx will live long enought to see the Knicks winning again.

[felix8621]

for the roster it has no, but for the chemistry and for the way they're playing yes....

[Anthony15]

Bobcats are th worst team as of right now!

[Laxation]

Because it's the only logical conclusion one can gather from you saying that somehow the stats aren't telling the whole story on the Knicks rebounding. That somehow despite their fourth place standing, they're actually a bad rebounding team.

Besides, your username implies more than whatever you actually said.

What I said was that stats can be deceiving... you can take whatever the fuck you want out of that.

How laxation implies more than what I say is beyond me, maybe you have some stats to explain it

[beau_boy04]

my answer is yes and despite all their efforts to get better, none has worked out and that's why The Bulls will get the first pick this season

[Jeffx]

I doubt Jeffx will live long enought to see the Knicks winning again.

You may not believe it, but you are telling the truth. I've resigned myself to that fact. Oh well...at least I saw the first two, and we had a good run during the 90s.

[shadowgrin]

^^ You've witnessed the Knicks 1st 2 championships.
Don't lose hope. You could always hire a hitman to kill Dolan, Thomas, and even Brown.

[maes]

They aren't the worst talent-wise, in fact they're pretty good in terms of talent, but they are the worst in actual effort and IQ. It's the opposite of what every Larry Brown team has been in the past.