To Kobe Haters - GET OVER IT.

yeah its really a shame what happened to hill. would have loved to see him have a full career. just one more thing. where is the love for bob cousy? cant even crack the list huh lol.

I thought about Cousy and yes, he was very much deserving of his nickname, "The Houdini of the Hardwood."

Honestly though? His FG% on his career was pretty miserable. He was a very good rebounder at 6'1 and he was a visionary creator but frankly, it is not hard to be a visionary creator on a team with Bill Russell, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, John Havlicek, etc, etc, etc. You could toss the ball anywhere and SOMEone would score.

*I* could have averaged 5 apg on that team, or maybe even better.

I can hear Red Auerbach now:

"Get it over the halfcourt line and find Sam Jones or Havlicek. Then get back on defence."

I don't mean to diminish Cousy but I DO think Kobe is a better player.

I believe that the fog of memory, fans too young to have seen Jordan in his prime as well as the notion that MJ was grossly overrated have actually left MJ somewhat underrated - his accomplishments seem to be condensed and ignored.

lmao, Come on Andrew, I know Jordan was your favorite player and all, but who's underrating the best player of all time?

A lot of people seem to hold the view that he was simply a one dimensional ballhog who never played defense, never passed the ball and didn't do anything to help the Bulls win six titles. There are some people who believe he doesn't even deserve to be called a great player, that he did nothing special and was nothing but a marketable name. I consider that underrating him just a tad.

sauru- agreed, the way the game is officiated now compared to the 80's, you would think the players are wearing skirts

flagrant fouls were pretty much non-exsistent back then

i think mcgrady comes the closest to the jordan- well at least in terms of individual success, lack of team success, & criticism. of course this is before mj went on to win the rings

The fact you posted this thread means you need to get over it

He can shoot the three better overall (though Jordan hit them when they counted) but he has poor shot selection there.

kind of hard to compare, back then in the 80's the 3 point line was more far away from the basket

jordans and kobe 3pt stats after line was moved closer in 1994-1995??

jordan's prime
3PM 3PA 3P%
1995-1996 111 260 .427
1996-1997 111 297 .374
1997-1998 30 126 .238

kobe's prime
3PM 3PA 3P%
1999-2000 46 114 .319
2000-2001 61 200 .305
2001-2002 33 132 .250
2002-2003 124 324 .383
2003-2004 71 217 .327

I was talking about Kobe, Kobe has poor shot selection.

Kobe has a poor everything.lol.j/p

Kobe has a poor everything.lol.j/p

No, that's not true. While I don't hold that Kobe is one of the all-time greats (at least as of yet) and while I personally hold heavy doubts that he will ever match up favorably with what Michael Jordan was able to accomplish, there are things that he has done (and aspects of his game) that are good.

When he's in the proper mindset, he really is a good passer. He's a pretty strong rebounder and when he's taking the right kind of shots, he's actually a good mid-range shooter. As limited as his post game is, it is effective right now because no one (seemingly) has taken the time to figure out that he does the same thing every time he puts his back to the basket. That will change but he's got time to add some new moves.

He really is strong going to the basket. I don't know how much all of this new weight is going to help him (it'll probably take a little away from his quickness and lift and it will most certainly hurt his knees) but so far in his career, IIRC, he's the youngest player to ever score 10,000 points. He's a perennial 27, 6 and 5 kind of a guy, which is rare enough.

He's clutch, which is actually something that's hard to be. He's got the courage and confidence to take the big shots (even if he airballs, back-rims and off-glass-and-outs many of them), which cannot be said about everyone. When he gets into a rhythm, he's one of the hardest players to stop in the league.

That's about all I can give Kobe respect-wise but it is true that he is a superstar player. He just needs to (in terms of basketball) improve his attitude and become a better team player. If he does that, then he's easily the best guard in the league because while McGrady is more athletic, more polished in the post and more smooth offensively, Bryant is a superior defender and clutch. Maybe McGrady will have the energy to be a strong defensive player this year with Yao, Juwan and JJ taking some of the offensive load off of his shoulders but he's a 46-minute player (or at least, has been so far).

he is maybe not the next jordan but he much better than tmac

he is maybe not the next jordan but he much better than tmac

Defensively? Sure, I'll give him that but with the caveat that he's played with a giant interior presence McGrady has never had.

In the clutch? Absolutely, with no qualifications.

Offensively? No way. Kobe isn't better than McGrady. McGrady, if either, is the better of the two because while Bryant is superior in one-on-one ball, McGrady is smarter on the court and a bit of a better shooter.

Offensively? No way. Kobe isn't better than McGrady. McGrady, if either, is the better of the two because while Bryant is superior in one-on-one ball, McGrady is smarter on the court and a bit of a better shooter.

Kobe is smarter on the court... Kobe passes better, he defends better, he makes better decisions.
Mcgrady is a better shooter?

Defensively? Sure, I'll give him that but with the caveat that he's played with a giant interior presence McGrady has never had

Kobe doesnt defend in the post so Shaq's presence does not give him an advantage on defense..
Kobe is a great perimeter defender.. Mcgrady is long and athletic

Tracy McGrady is NOT smarter on the court then Kobe in any way, he might be a better shooter...but I still rather give Kobe the ball then T-Mac in the offense.

T-Mac has all the tools to be a better defensive player than Kobe but he lacks the drive for it.

that is simply what seperates the 2. kobe got the drive and heart to win, tmac looks as if he is playing a pick up game out there.

Tracy McGrady is NOT smarter on the court then Kobe in any way, he might be a better shooter...but I still rather give Kobe the ball then T-Mac in the offense.

Oh I don't care who has the ball the first 3 QTRs, but I put my money on Kobe in crunch time every day of the week.

Sauru, McGrady plays like hte Iceman, so smooth he makes it look easy. Don't mistake that for lack of effort.

As to teh rest of you,

WATCH Kobe Bryant play. He drives into multiple defenders, turns the ball over on the regular, misses good passes and forces the issue on offence. McGrady does NONE of that.

Sauru, McGrady plays like hte Iceman, so smooth he makes it look easy. Don't mistake that for lack of effort.

As to teh rest of you,

WATCH Kobe Bryant play. He drives into multiple defenders, turns the ball over on the regular, misses good passes and forces the issue on offence. McGrady does NONE of that.

LoL....are you saying that McGrady never forces shit on offense? And that he doesnt lack effort on the court? Open your eyes please.....he actually talked about stopping from playing basketball after some games when bum teams like Chicago played zone defense on Orlando, and he finished the game with a terrible FG% and below or just over 10 points.

Just like Kobe, McGrady also has a poor shot selection at sometimes and turns balls over...either you dont want to admit it, or you are just saying this based on highlight mixtapes you downloaded from some And1 site, yes...McGrady can play very good and smooth...but Kobe can do that to, if not better on a good day.

McGrady might have a slight indivdual talent atvantage over Kobe, which can be discussed, but from what I have seen from him...hes lazy, suddenly dissapears when the game is close...blame his teammates on losing, terrible example of a team-captain etc...I can do it your way to, Kobe does NONE of that.

LoL....are you saying that McGrady never forces shit on offense? And that he doesnt lack effort on the court? Open your eyes please.....he actually talked about stopping from playing basketball after some games when bum teams like Chicago played zone defense on Orlando, and he finished the game with a terrible FG% and below or just over 10 points.

You do realize that on Orlando, he had less spacing than Vince Carter on the Raptors? That made him almost purely a perimeter shooter because he had no space to drive when the zone defence collapsed all over him and his teammates weren't able to burn the opposition with perimeter shooting.

McGrady does force things occasionally but much less often than Kobe and more out of necessity... Orlando had no team last year, except for Juwan Howard (whom he passed to regularly). Kobe had Shaq and some other players who could shoot and get it down. He ignored them almost out of habit.

Just like Kobe, McGrady also has a poor shot selection at sometimes and turns balls over...either you dont want to admit it, or you are just saying this based on highlight mixtapes you downloaded from some And1 site, yes...McGrady can play very good and smooth...but Kobe can do that to, if not better on a good day.

If you read my posts, you realize I'm not trying to say Kobe is crap. I know that Kobe plays well but he tries too hard sometimes, or something. He forces things much more often when he doesn't ahve to and when he has vastly better options. When you've got Shaq in the post and a wide-open shooter do you:

a) pass the ball
or
b) drive into triple-coverage and turn the ball over or just force up a bad shot?

If you're Kobe, the answer is b). If you're not, the answer is a).

Kobe has stretches of basketball where he's utterly unstoppable but there's I take issue when he doesn't pass to open players in favor oftrying some stupid dribble move that is a poor decision (like forcing the issue).

McGrady might have a slight indivdual talent atvantage over Kobe, which can be discussed, but from what I have seen from him...hes lazy, suddenly dissapears when the game is close...blame his teammates on losing, terrible example of a team-captain etc...I can do it your way to, Kobe does NONE of that.

Kobe is admittedly vastly superior in the clutch. But we'll see how much energy he has at the end of games this year without Shaq carrying so much of the offence and while playing without an interior safety net.

I'll give you that T-Mac isn't a leader. Last year, neither was Kobe. When you spend most of your off-court energy (rape trial aside) feuding with the main star on the team and trying to establish dominance and be the top dog, you're not a leader.

I'm not trying to establish T-Mac as a better player here. My argument is that they are on the same level, as their strengths and faults equal out to the same level. I don't think that's a bad argument.

o have the times changed, what a blast in the past. No one compares McGrady to Kobe anymore and the argument used in the OP's post can't be used anymore

please forgive my fail-ness

how did I fail this time ?:lol:

honestly speaking, i haven't seen too many kobe haters in this forum. so i don't see the need of this thread at all. in fact, most ppl in this forum already acknowledge how awesome kobe is.

i myself am a fan of kobe and rooted for the lakers in playoffs, and my posts can confirm that. it's just that some kobe ass lickers don't know how to admit his limit as a player and exaggerate his talent to the extent where most ppl would start arguing. we all know kobe's great and all that stuff but C'MON!!! he's got weaknesses of his own and somewhat fails to go down as the best in the history(esp. against mj). in result, it's more of kobe ass lickers producing ppl so called kobe haters.

Go back and read the date on the first post, as well as on the last post before Blank bumped it.

oh... i don't chek for dates on every posts i read.

anyways, i still think it's more of kobe fans causing ppl to hate on kobe.

"Hater" is a word that gets thrown around too much these days anyway, especially in regards to Kobe Bryant.