X's Hypothetical Draft Do-overs *1984 Posted*

[The X]

Scott Haskin (#14)

Who was this guy ?
Which team drafted him ?

Penny and Shaq ,
I think Penny's career would have turn in other way if Orlando had won the 95 finals ("Why not us, why not now" => because Hakeem was in Houston)

Scott Haskin was drafted by Indiana....he played at Oregon State....and was out of the league within one year....I don't know anything else about the guy except that I think he at the bottom of the Pacers' bench in NBA Live '95 even though he didn't play for the Pacers in the '94/95 season ('93/94 was his only season)....


Andrew, I'd agree with Benji....you look at Cassell's pool of work, he can't drop out of top 2....he's been underrated his entire career & Penny & Mash were superb talents but injuries derailed their careers....Mash did pick it up later in his career, but I didn't see a team picking in the top 5 willing to wait around for him to rehab, knowing he would be injured most of the time....

[[Q]]

i see 1990's coming up. GP better be #1

[Silas]

Of course he'd better be. Nobody can out do the glove. As for '93, I like it. Well reasoned so the picks make sense.

[Anthony15]

1992 should go 1-2 as it did in real life. 3rd imo is going to be Christie.

[The X]

1992 should go 1-2 as it did in real life. 3rd imo is going to be Christie.

I don't think he will be to tell you the truth....I haven't done it yet, but I'm feeling he's going to be in the 5-8 range....


as for The Glove, he'll be a lock for number 1 in 1990, no doubt about it....

[Indy]

Scott Haskin was drafted by Indiana....he played at Oregon State....and was out of the league within one year....I don't know anything else about the guy except that I think he at the bottom of the Pacers' bench in NBA Live '95 even though he didn't play for the Pacers in the '94/95 season ('93/94 was his only season)....

He was an asshole too. I was only like 8 or 9 that year, and I asked him for an autograph on a hat and he scoffed at me and walked by.

That was the first player on the Pacers I ever disliked.

[The X]

Scott Haskin was drafted by Indiana....he played at Oregon State....and was out of the league within one year....I don't know anything else about the guy except that I think he at the bottom of the Pacers' bench in NBA Live '95 even though he didn't play for the Pacers in the '94/95 season ('93/94 was his only season)....

He was an asshole too. I was only like 8 or 9 that year, and I asked him for an autograph on a hat and he scoffed at me and walked by.

That was the first player on the Pacers I ever disliked.

well I guess if he had of had a better attitude, he might've stuck around longer....hence the likes of Haley & Marks....

[Andrew]

Stay with me here. Yeah, Payton, Kidd, and Nash have all been better. But only for two-three year stints. Cassell was top three, and often top two, until 2005.

I hate to put too much focus on team success, but Cassell won with Houston, when he got to New Jersey they had a short ascension, then he got to the Conference Finals in Milwaukee and Minnesota. Then he leads the Clippers in 2005-06? It surely can't be a coincidence, that his arrival coincides with the realization of a lot of these teams talents can it?

I don't know about him being top two or three from 1993-2005. You could say he was a key player on those Rockets championship teams but he wasn't the main reason for their success or even the most noteworthy player behind Hakeem Olajuwon. I agree that he contributed to the increased success of some of the teams he went to but on the other hand, the Suns didn't improve when he joined them in 1996, nor did Dallas shoot up the standings when the Finley trade sent him to the Mavericks.

[benji]

I don't know about him being top two or three from 1993-2005.

From 1998-2005, Penny was the guy from 1994-1997.

Well, taking a gander...he hangs around just behind Stockton and Payton in 1998 and 2000, in 2001 he's a bit down, but in 2002 he bumps back up and he's right behind those guys again. In 2003 he takes up his position behind Kidd and Nash as Payton and Stockon slip out. In 2004 he's easily the best point guard in the league.

The reason I say Cassell is that level because of his longevity. Over that span, he's right there behind Stockton and Payton. Kidd and Nash aren't good as long, even if they're better in a number of years, same with Marbury and Brandon. It's like this, if you look at each invididual year, many years Wilkins and Hill are better than Pippen, but Pippen is clearly the best SF from 1991-1998 because he's in the top three every single year.

Yeah, we can go through and say Cassell was only best at his position in one year, but Pippen is also only a clear runaway favorite at his position in 1994 and 1995. Wilkins is better in the years before, Hill in the years after.

While reminding I dislike using team success to evaluate individuals. Using the Suns and Mavs to discredit his "winner" credentials is a bit dishonest, as he played 22 and 16 games for those two teams. (And the Suns traded away their best player...and the Mavericks...were the late 90s Mavericks...)

People always talk about how guys are "winners" and gush over Robert Horrys, Will Perdues and lots of guys who hand in a teams success is minimal, of the world. While they ignore supposed "non-stars" like Sam Cassell, a true winner by all measures, and a couple years ago were blasting the Clippers left and right for trading the right to give Marko Jaric $40 million for the last two years of Cassell's contract. Considering some of crap Webber's pulled over the years, Cassell might even be the best pick to make in this draft. Even if you put Webber above him (which I don't have a qualm with) he's still far ahead of guys like Hardaway and Mashburn, who spent the bulk of their careers as average players.

[Silas]

I agree with Benji, it's hard to find guys that can be very effective for 15 plus years, and Sam Cassell is one of those guys. Penny was just too injury riddled, his window of effectiveness was a third of Cassells. I think most teams, going back, would pick Cassell unless, at the time, their overall window for success was short, just like the good part of Penny's career.

[kevC]

I disagree with Benji, it just doesn't FEEL right that Sam Cassell was a top point guard at one point. I've WATCHED him play like four times and he's like ugly and stuff...

[The X]

1992 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)

1. Orlando: C- Shaquille O'Neal (picked #1)

Yet another gimme at the top. Shame they'd only get to keep him for 4 years. Perhaps in the same circumstances the Magic trade his rights for more assets knowing that Shaq wouldn't stick around. Then again, he did get them to the Finals & got them winning before duping them for LA. Shaq will go down as one of the greatest big men to ever play the game.

2. Charlotte: C- Alonzo Mourning (picked #2)

Once again, you don't pass on easily the best player available, especially a franchise big man. Shame he wouldn't stick around, but you still don't pass on him regardless. The pick can always be traded.

3. Minnesota: SG/SF- Latrell Sprewell (picked #24)

The Wolves, not too far removed from expansion needed talent. Sprewell is easily the best available at this point and is an immediate impact on the court, & will bring fans into the arena. Sprewell was a dynamic player at both ends of the court, especially in the 1st half of his career (he was a 20ppg, 5rpg, 4apg, 1.5spg player), & you could no doubt surmise that away from Carlisemo, he likely doesn't choke any of his coaches & doesn't lose a year (& more if you include rust) of his career.

4. Dallas: SF/PF- Tom Gugliotta (picked #6)

Say what you want about Googs, he was a very solid player & did make it to All-Star status once or twice in his career. It's a shame that the 2nd half of his career was slowed down & cut short by injuries. He makes more sense that guys like Laettner, Jimmy Jackson, Doug Christie & Robert Horry. A slight tier above them in my opinion.

5. Denver: PF/C- Christian Laettner (picked #3)

This team originally took the talented, but always injured LaPhonso Ellis. They really needed a PF at the time so you can't fault the pick. I guess at PF it's between Laettner, Horry, Weatherspoon & PJ Brown. They needed help right away so it's a tossup between Laettner & Weatherspoon. But I just feel Laettner is the best PF available & would've done alright with Mutombo having his back. Probably less pressure on him at this spot, so perhaps he flourishes with Nuggets, perhaps not.

6. Washington: SG/SF- Jim Jackson (picked #4)

Whilst I don't think he's necessarily a better prospect than Doug Christie over his career, the Bullets were a sorry ass team that needed scoring (the fact Pervis Ellison & Harvey Grant led the team in scoring underlines this fact). JJ was a 20ppg scorer for the first half decade of his career before injuries & bouncing from team to team slowed his scoring potency down. Either way, when healthy, he would've easily led the team in scoring.

7. Sacramento: SG/SF/PG- Doug Christie (picked #17)

The Kings had The Rock & a few other role players around him. They could've used a big man, but a versatile player like Christie probably would've been a better fit as he could play anywhere from the 1 to 3.

8. Milwaukee: SF/PF- Robert Horry (picked #11)

I had a few problems with this pick. I swayed between the likes of Horry, Weatherspoon & Walt Williams, eventually settling on Horry because he was a winner. Horry is probably better suited to the teams picking at #10 & #11, but Horry would be too hard to pass on at this spot, even if he is just a very good role player.

9. Philadelphia: PF/C- P.J. Brown (picked #29)

Although he wouldn't play until the following season, Brown fits the city's culture of hard working players. He is a consistent player who you know what you're getting from him year in & year out. He narrowly edges out Spoon at this spot.

10. Atlanta: PF/SF- Clarence Weatherspoon (picked #9)

The Hawks, in desperate need of a PF took Adam Keefe. How about taking an immediate impact guy that will do the dirty work like Spoon, who'll give you 17 & 8 for the next 5 years? Chalk him straight into the starting lineup next to Kevin Willis, Dominique, Augmon & Mookie Blaylock. You could do worse at this spot, that's for sure.

11. Houston: SF/SG- Walt Williams (picked #7)

No Robert Horry on board, but the team still needs a starting SF, preferably someone who can hit the 3 ball. Cue in Walt 'The Wizard' Williams. A talented swingman who had good offensive talent & could shoot from distance. Perhaps he becomes Big Shot Walt. Unlikely, but I always liked Walt & glad he slipped in to the bottom of the lottery.

Three toughest omissions: Anthony Peeler (#15), Matt Geiger (#42), David Wesley (undrafted).

Three biggest flops: Todd Day (#8), Adam Keefe (#10), Harold Miner (#12).


For me, Matt Geiger might be the toughest omission. A solid 7 footer, perhaps I could've slid him at #9 or #10. Guys like LaPhonso Ellis, Don MacLean & Malik Sealy all could've put their hands up, but injuries & death prevent that unfortunately. We also can't forget role players like Hubert Davis, Jon Barry, Tracy Murray, Bryant Stith & Popeye Jones. Overall quite a deep draft, where you could get a pretty good player late in the 1st Round.

I'll post 1991 in a few days time. Enjoy.

[Lamrock]

Yes! Got to reply before you changed the topic title!

Good re-draft. That draft was simply not that good outside the top 2. You say its deep, but outside the top 3 were a bunch of role players. I would never thought that Spree would be #3, but it makes sense.

Excellent re-draft. I have no idea who will be #1 in 1991... Maybe Charlotte made the right pick, even thought Larry didn't last that long in the league. Either that, or Mutombo, who has been effective to this day.

[Andrew]

4. Dallas: SF/PF- Tom Gugliotta (picked #6)

Say what you want about Googs, he was a very solid player & did make it to All-Star status once or twice in his career. It's a shame that the 2nd half of his career was slowed down & cut short by injuries. He makes more sense that guys like Laettner, Jimmy Jackson, Doug Christie & Robert Horry. A slight tier above them in my opinion.

In terms of talent I can see Googs going this high but since you had Penny and Mash drop in the 1993 Draft as their careers were hampered by injuries, shouldn't that also apply to Googs as well? He was solid (and healthy) for the first seven years of his career but he was only on the fringe of All-Star status (with a lone appearance in 1997) for a couple of those years.

[The X]

Yes! Got to reply before you changed the topic title!

Good re-draft. That draft was simply not that good outside the top 2. You say its deep, but outside the top 3 were a bunch of role players. I would never thought that Spree would be #3, but it makes sense.

Excellent re-draft. I have no idea who will be #1 in 1991... Maybe Charlotte made the right pick, even thought Larry didn't last that long in the league. Either that, or Mutombo, who has been effective to this day.

When I say deep, I mean deep with role players....definitely not deep superstar wise....

4. Dallas: SF/PF- Tom Gugliotta (picked #6)

Say what you want about Googs, he was a very solid player & did make it to All-Star status once or twice in his career. It's a shame that the 2nd half of his career was slowed down & cut short by injuries. He makes more sense that guys like Laettner, Jimmy Jackson, Doug Christie & Robert Horry. A slight tier above them in my opinion.

In terms of talent I can see Googs going this high but since you had Penny and Mash drop in the 1993 Draft as their careers were hampered by injuries, shouldn't that also apply to Googs as well? He was solid (and healthy) for the first seven years of his career but he was only on the fringe of All-Star status (with a lone appearance in 1997) for a couple of those years.

I didn't drop Penny, he went at same spot (#3) as he went originally....some people might argue that 4 great years of Penny exceeds 14 good to very good years from Cassell, but I'm not one of those people, so I stuck with Sam I Am at 2....so Penny goes where he originally goes, which is not an insult to him, but quite a sign of respect (for a player I never liked I must add) who had his career cut short by injuries....I think in all the other re-drafts, the only injury-riddled player to go about as high or higher than they did originally was Grant Hill, so that's lofty company for Penny....as for Mash, yeah I did drop him a bit further than I would've liked (as I really liked Mash as a player), but that's how it panned out....the main reason Mash dropped was his major injury problems early in his career....after his good first 2 seasons, he missed more or less the majority of the next 3 out of 4 seasons....I couldn't see a team picking high in the lottery, needing help to win ball games passing on the likes of Vin Baker or Allan Houston....I guess his harshest drops were falling below Van Exel & Bradley at 6 & 7, but given the teams they went to, I thought those 2 help more earlier in the career....but yeah, if you think Mash was too good to pass up at 6 then I would completely understand & respect that as I almost had him going at 6 in the first place....

as for why I didn't drop Googs, different draft, different circumstances, different teams picking as with their needs....in Goog's first 5 years in the league he only missed 14 games total....of course after that, he was only really good for 40-55 games per year....but unlike Mash, who was beaten out by All-Star level players in Baker, Houston & Van Exel, Googs beat out Laettner, Doug Christie & Robert Horry....a bit of a different in level of the talent we are talking about....if Mash were in the 1992 draft, I probably would've had him at 4....

with all these re-drafts, I'm not rating the best 10, 11, 13 or 14 players in each draft, I'm also trying to fit them....obviously I don't get it right all the time, but that's why I'm posting it on a discussion forum, to hear varying views

[Silas]

Very cool, I like it. These are always an interesting read. A bummer there's no Anthony Peeler. He was always fun as an old guy on the Wizards in NBA Live 2001.

One question though, since I'm not quite as fluent as you or andrew on early 90's NBA, why did PJ Brown sit out a year?

[benji]

He couldn't come to terms with the Nets, who didn't think he was ready enough for the NBA. So he went to Greece, dominated, and they signed him up.

[Andrew]

I didn't drop Penny, he went at same spot (#3) as he went originally....some people might argue that 4 great years of Penny exceeds 14 good to very good years from Cassell, but I'm not one of those people, so I stuck with Sam I Am at 2....so Penny goes where he originally goes, which is not an insult to him, but quite a sign of respect (for a player I never liked I must add) who had his career cut short by injuries....I think in all the other re-drafts, the only injury-riddled player to go about as high or higher than they did originally was Grant Hill, so that's lofty company for Penny....as for Mash, yeah I did drop him a bit further than I would've liked (as I really liked Mash as a player), but that's how it panned out....the main reason Mash dropped was his major injury problems early in his career....after his good first 2 seasons, he missed more or less the majority of the next 3 out of 4 seasons....I couldn't see a team picking high in the lottery, needing help to win ball games passing on the likes of Vin Baker or Allan Houston....I guess his harshest drops were falling below Van Exel & Bradley at 6 & 7, but given the teams they went to, I thought those 2 help more earlier in the career....but yeah, if you think Mash was too good to pass up at 6 then I would completely understand & respect that as I almost had him going at 6 in the first place....

"Drop" admittedly wasn't the right word for me to use with Penny since you had him going at #3 as he originally did. What I meant was that you didn't place him any higher due to the fact that his career has been hampered by injuries and you also had Mash going lower than a couple of other players he could conceivably be placed ahead of for the same reason. To that end I was wondering why Googs went ahead of a couple of players who remained healthy but I can see why you've gone that way now.

[Anthony15]

WTF??? Christian Laettner? I'm pretty sure that only his College Name describes why he should be in top flops. I would've taken Horry over Laettner any time.

[McDwyane]

I aree on your 1993.But the laettner thing is just not right.

[NovU]

i would choose laettner b4 horry cuz laettner was a solid productive player. but true that he did suck in latter part of his career. compared to that horry was always a 6th man material who has to start his day from the bench. so i would choose a starter material over any bench material. but true horry was able to step up in some games with his clutch shootings, so if that is what u need then y not horry. but let's face it. horry wouldn't have done shits that he did with good teams if he was with a sucky team.

[The X]

I can understand why some would put Horry ahead of Laettner, but Laettner was a very productive starter for a good portion of his career until injuries finished him off....I was always a fan of him & felt he was underrated in NBA (overrated coming out of college though) due to not living up to his billings of being in Dream Team & from his college career....

[Its_asdf]

I don't think I've gave you props for putting the time into doing this, X. The offseason and the quality of threads recently have kind of waned my interest in coming here, but this thread is always one i keep tabs on.

Keep up the good work my man, considering that I starting watching ball in the late 90s, I'm glad to get some info on some of the players of the 90s that I probably wouldn't have been able to get.

[The X]

I don't think I've gave you props for putting the time into doing this, X. The offseason and the quality of threads recently have kind of waned my interest in coming here, but this thread is always one i keep tabs on.

Keep up the good work my man, considering that I starting watching ball in the late 90s, I'm glad to get some info on some of the players of the 90s that I probably wouldn't have been able to get.

Thanks mate, it's cool though, I enjoy doing it so that's the main thing....glad a few people like it....good to see the lollerskates back in action

might try & get 1991 posted tomorrow, we'll see how time goes....

[Silas]

I sure hope so, they're always good.