Chicago Bulls Thread

[---]

His agent reportedly wants him to play in either Chicago or Golden State. If teams are already put off by the age thing and the fact he is such a mystery (no one knows much about him and it's obvous his people want to keep it that way. He didn't take part in the athletics tests), he could very likely drop if it's a possibility that he may refuse to play for any team other than Chicago or Golden State.

If he and Hawes were available, I don't know who I would pick. Yi has as much potential as anyone in the draft not named Oden, but he is more of a perimeter player and doesn't fill the post scoring need much at all. Hawes on the other hand gives the Bulls one of the best offensive centers in the draft of recent times and also gives the Bulls a playmaker downlow due to his great court vision and passing skill. If both reach their full potential, Yi is going to be the better player. It's a really tough choice.

Now that I think about it, how about trading down to get Jason Smith?

He's probably the most mobile big in the draft and has barely any weaknesses. Good rebounder, decent defender, great jumpshot for a 7 footer, ballhandling skills, good passer, very good free throw shooter, etc. I really like the sound of him. Averaged 17/10/2 in college nearly shooting 60%. I have seen him play twice, both last season and I was very impressed. He dominated on both ends of the floor but I never knew he would be regarded this high (only because he doesn't play for a big time school).

Say #9 (Chicago) for #14 and an 08 first rounder from the Clippers?

[maes]

he did look very smooth and agile for a guy his size in the youtube vids. but so did that 'Skita' guy...

LOL true true...that's a scary thought...and Chinese competition can't be that tough? But then again some of those videos were against the Spanish world champion team, specifically w/ Pau Gasol defending Yi and he blew by him like a guard. Gasol is actually mobile for even an NBA 7 footer.

One thing about Spencer Hawes , as much as i like the guy, there tends to be two kinds of offensive post players in the NBA: totally dominant (Shaq/Duncan) or non-existent (Dampier). Coaches tend not to let roleplayers post up. That's partly why college studs like Marcus Fizer didn't do anything in the NBA, there's not much room for an "OK" post player. Sweetney, is actually an OK post player. He'll never see the ball again. Sean Mays, is actually an OK post player, he rarely gets the ball on even a bad team desperate for scoring.

If we draft Spencer, Paxson should feel Hawes has the upside to be a dominant C.

[magius]

risky business drafting yi. he could either go dirk or darko. I think I'd do it if he was on the board, but then again with chicago's recent history of developing big men.... i don't know, if i were a gm, I'd have to base it on his personality profile.

[grusom]

risky business drafting yi. he could either go dirk or darko. I think I'd do it if he was on the board, but then again with chicago's recent history of developing big men.... i don't know, if i were a gm, I'd have to base it on his personality profile.

I don't think there is as much risk in drafting Yi as a lot of people are saying - Darko hasn't accomplished anything before he went to the NBA - he was only drafted that high because of his hype and his so called potential.

Yi has had a solid MVP season in a pro league - I know it was against asians, but it's still something (no, I'm not a racist - asians are just so.... pingpong-player like)

[maes]

One thing about Yi i like, he's freakin big. None of this "6' 9 without shoes, 7' 1" int the NBA" business.

Yi v Melo


Yi v Bosh

[---]

Bigger Backcourt Clearly Bulls' Aim
8th June, 2007 - 8:40 pm
Chicago Tribune -
If general manager John Paxson didn't make matters clear enough recently when he first said Thabo Sefolosha needs to play more next season and then added the Bulls' smallish backcourt isn't ideal, try this on for size:

Thursday's first draft workout at the Berto Center featured Acie Law and Javaris Crittenton, two of the biggest point guards who will be available when teams make their picks June 28 in the NBA draft.

"Their backcourt, I think they want to add size to it," Crittenton said. "That could be an issue."

Dealing the 6-1 Chris Duhon in some package to address the Bulls' biggest need of a proven frontline player and then drafting Duhon's replacement is just one option the Bulls must consider.

I think I would rather do this than take a big in the draft unless Yi slips or Hawes dominates these workouts. I have wanted Crittenton on this team since I saw him play the first time early in the year, love the guys game and size. I honestly don't think Chris is going to be around after this season, so why not move him and Noc instead of losing them for nothing?

Crittenton's stock seems to be really up and down, but I hope the management isn't considering taking him at 9. A pick around 15 would do the trick.

[Dan's Brain]

Kevin Pritchard was inquiring about a Hinrich/Randolph swap, but was told that Kirk is untouchable. Which is good news, for me at least. I dont want to give up my favourite Bull for someone who would probably spend the season frustrating the hell out of me.


What do people think we could get for Chris Duhon straight up?

[maes]

Bench player, like Duhon. Which wouldn't be bad since lots of times all i see Duhon doing is standing out at the wing ready for a kickout...a SG could do that while still adding more defense & rebounding on the other end. I dunno maybe Mikael Pietrus?

I dunno about the size thing.. in actual height Law is 6' 2" and Crittenton is 6' 3"...they're the same height is Hinrich...i'm not sure if that buys you that much more over Duhon.

[---]

I thought Javaris was like 6-5?

[Andrew]

That doesn't seem like a bad idea. As much as I like them, I'd rather see Noce and Duhon moved before Gordon, Deng and Hinrich. I'm not sure what kind of frontcourt player they could be used to acquire though. I imagine someone like Shareef Abdur-Rahim would be about the limit.

[grusom]

If Portland are looking to move Randolph because of attitude problems, as Donatello said they might in the Portland thread, and the Bulls if they threw in a pick or two, couldn't Randolph be in reach?

Nocioni seems like perfect fit for the Blazers - hard working, high character guy who can hitfrom the outside and play defence, and Duhon would be a very solid backup to Jared Jack.

[magius]

the more i think of it the more I don't like a backcourt of gordon-hinrich. they are just too undersized, and i don't think, together, they are used to their full potential. the team as a whole just seems very unversatile - and, even worse, not good enough at what they are best at to truly succeed with this core. I love gordon, but when is the last time a (optimistically) 6'3 sg amounted to a championship in this era of basketball? unless chicago is modelling themselves after the 99 sixers, i just don't know. I don't like it. i think you need to keep noc and duhon, those types of core guys are going to be invaluable down the stretch; glue players - there seems to be so few of them these days. the only way i would keep gordon and trade hinrich is if I got a post player to run the offense through, of which, the only one of real impact available is kg. if i were chicago i would push for kg with hinrich and deng:

wallace
garnett
nocioni
gordon
duhon

that looks like a team built for the playoffs. perhaps you trade for a 2 guard with a little size (and maybe, if you're lucky, a shot, and some toughness) too, and i think that team is set to win the east, and compete for a championship.

[Andrew]

I'd say it's a possibility but as we were discussing the other day Randolph might not be an ideal fit for the Bulls despite being a 20-10 guy because a player's character and ability to function as a part of a successful unit has to come into the equation at some point. In that respect, Randolph would be somewhat of a risk to say the least.

[maes]

Yeah let's clear up the actual size issue:

(Real heights from rookie year measurements)
Height, Standing Reach
Hinrich: 6' 2.75" - 8' 2.5"
Gordon: 6' 1" - 8' 3"
Duhon: 6' 0" - 8' 2"

Acie Law: 6' 2" - 8' 2"
Crittenton: 6' 3" - 8' 2"

Neither Law or Crittenton would give us extra height when a defender puts his arm up in front of a shooter. A player's height, his head height, is probably the most overrated stat in the NBA. I don't think either Law or Crittenton qualifies as a "big" guard. Reddick is like that, he's 6' 4" or 6' 5" but his standing reach is 8' 1", shorter than Duhon.

What i would think would fit the description for a big, defensive guard (like Thabo):
Roy: 6' 5.25" - 8' 5"
Ronnie Brewre: 6' 5.75" - 8' 7.5"
Thad Young: 6' 5.75" - 8' 10"

[---]

A player's height, his head height, is probably the most overrated stat in the NBA.

I agree, but I think it's a great thing to have in a point guard. A point guard that is 6'5 in shoes is going to have an easier time seeing the floor than a 6'0 point guard (when being gaurded). I know this from (bad) experience.

[air gordon]

the more i think of it the more I don't like a backcourt of gordon-hinrich. they are just too undersized, and i don't think, together, they are used to their full potential. the team as a whole just seems very unversatile - and, even worse, not good enough at what they are best at to truly succeed with this core. I love gordon, but when is the last time a (optimistically) 6'3 sg amounted to a championship in this era of basketball? unless chicago is modelling themselves after the 99 sixers, i just don't know. I don't like it. i think you need to keep noc and duhon, those types of core guys are going to be invaluable down the stretch; glue players - there seems to be so few of them these days. the only way i would keep gordon and trade hinrich is if I got a post player to run the offense through, of which, the only one of real impact available is kg. if i were chicago i would push for kg with hinrich and deng:

wallace
garnett
nocioni
gordon
duhon

that looks like a team built for the playoffs. perhaps you trade for a 2 guard with a little size (and maybe, if you're lucky, a shot, and some toughness) too, and i think that team is set to win the east, and compete for a championship.

hey magius- out of curiosity, how many bulls games did you watch? just the nationally televised ones perhaps (after they destroyed the heat on opening nite- they sucked ever since hehe)?

Gordon and Hinrich finally got their chance to start together and incidentally they both had their best years respectively as of yet in the association. and the Bulls had their highest win total since the glory years. and the team advanced to the 2nd round

can a "small" backcourt contend for a championship? historically, no. but recently- we've seen the 'combo' guard have success and a few of the stronger teams in the league doincorporate these aforementioned backcourts quite often (Dallas, Phoenix, Denver, Miami, Utah, and to some extent Houston)

imo- there shouldn't be a "untouchable' tag on any player on the bulls roster, maybe except ben wallace because of his contract. if there's anyone that should be traded- it's DUHON. he's on an expiring contract and finally news of his night life is finally being reported by the media http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/429522,CST-SPT-bull15.article

Duhon is hardly a core guy to begin- he doesn't even start in the first place and Sefolosha should now be the 1st guard off the bench. same with Nocioni- he's got a great attitude but 6th men are definitely expendable

What do people think we could get for Chris Duhon straight up?

probably another backup player. i guess if you add the pick and perhaps a 1yr salaried player like Khryapa and trade that to a team in need of a backup pg- you could net a decent player

I dunno maybe Mikael Pietrus?

i'd be for all it. imagine having Pietrus and sefolosa as the backcourt on a full court press... but i do think Pietrus is up for a new contract next year...

let's give up on the KG trade talk for the time being. besides, haven't you listened to Riot?? he will not be traded since the team now has juwan friggin howard (and will probably draft that hawes kid- just a guess there)

if Hawes and Yi are off the board, i would want Pax to trade the pick.

[shadowgrin]

I think it's time to remove the "Black Shoes Time".

[maes]

What about getting a guy like Devin Harris. He's not a key player for Dallas, and he's relentless going to the rim. He scored 51% of his points in the paint, which is more than Parker. I also think he's a pretty good defender.

Maybe do straight up Kirk or Ben for Harris?

If nobody is a threat inside, teams will always just keep overplaying the Bulls on the outside like Detroit did and gamble that Ben & Tyrus can't win the game alone on their scoring, which works 90% of the time (except that one time against Boston).

[shadowgrin]

imo, I don't think Harris' value is the same as Kirk or Ben. A straight-up trade would be foolish for Paxson.
Avery seems to like Harris. He may not be as valuable as Dirk or even Terry, but I think Harris is a key player in Avery's lineup.
I wouldn't even be surprised if Terry is the one that's moved. Avery wanted him to be decent at the point, he did that last season on their Finals run. But this past season, Terry reverted back to being an undersized SG.

[maes]

I think the trade could be fair (always some doubt) because i think Kirk and Ben have close to plateau'd, i don't see them getting any better, while i think Harris still has loads of potential but he's a 4th option on that team behind Dirk, Josh, & Terry.

It's just that i wonder what kind of inside scorer we can get for Kirk/Ben (assuming we keep Lu)...we're not going to get Jefferson or Brand or KG...what does that leave in terms of a young scoring big to balance out Big Ben? Nobody is giving up Bynum or Bosh for one of our guards straight up.

I'd like to see Krstic here, but i think even that may be out of reach.

[shadowgrin]

Jermaine O'Neal perhaps?

[magius]

hey magius- out of curiosity, how many bulls games did you watch? just the nationally televised ones perhaps (after they destroyed the heat on opening nite- they sucked ever since hehe)?

Gordon and Hinrich finally got their chance to start together and incidentally they both had their best years respectively as of yet in the association. and the Bulls had their highest win total since the glory years. and the team advanced to the 2nd round

can a "small" backcourt contend for a championship? historically, no. but recently- we've seen the 'combo' guard have success and a few of the stronger teams in the league doincorporate these aforementioned backcourts quite often (Dallas, Phoenix, Denver, Miami, Utah, and to some extent Houston)

imo- there shouldn't be a "untouchable' tag on any player on the bulls roster, maybe except ben wallace because of his contract. if there's anyone that should be traded- it's DUHON. he's on an expiring contract and finally news of his night life is finally being reported by the media http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketba ... 15.article

Duhon is hardly a core guy to begin- he doesn't even start in the first place and Sefolosha should now be the 1st guard off the bench. same with Nocioni- he's got a great attitude but 6th men are definitely expendable

probably not as many as you, but from the games i have i come to those conclusions. The reason I am doubtful of a gordon-hinrich pairing is because there have been small backcourts in nba history of equal or greater talent, and even they were not able to muster anything other than indivdual statistics. I don't think there is precedent for a championship fullt-time small backcourt in nba history - especially when the league itself is getting bigger. optimism is a beautiful thing, but history has merit. offensively I have no doubt they could hold their own, but defensively a small backcourt imho creates too many problems - especially against a well coached team that forces switches. Can they get close to a championship? Perhaps - but is close really good enough? Because built on this core, imho that is their best upside. Close.

I think duhon could be a core guy if the other guard were a combo guard who demands the ball, i.e. ben gordon. I don't think he can create, but I do think he is good for making the pass that leads to a pass that leads to a point, as well as bringing the ball up, and if coached well, I think he has the tools to be one of the better defensive guards. I by no means think he is capable of putting up star guard numbers, but history has shown that championship teams do not require star pg numbers. Then again, I may also be unfairly influenced by his duke background.

imho, if I personally were the gm, I would stop settling. it just seems like they are settling, they need to take a risk here - none of the players they have are dominant offensively or defensively (ben wallace WAS, but he no longer is). They need somebody who can take conrol of the game, and turn it at any given moment. I don't think they have that right now, and i don't think deng or hinrich will evolve into that. Perhaps gordon, but i'd prefer a big who can do it more consistently.

[maes]

Jermaine O'Neal perhaps?

Veteran guys like that make too much money to fit in, Ben is making $15M, Kirk $10M, adding Jermaine would put another $20M, we're close to cap with just 3 guys and it means we don't extend Gordon & Lu & Noc and they can all walk.

That's the other main problem, this scoring big man has to fit in our salary structure.

[Sauru]

ben wallace was a bad idea by the bulls imo, that money could have been spent elsewhere and it would have yielded much better returns.

anyway, i think the bulls need to keep thier young guys unless they can go and get a top player in the league, and i dont mean gasol. JO would be good but i dont think a great fit there either because of his contract and like indy says, the pacers are gonna want alot in return for him

[Andrew]

ben wallace was a bad idea by the bulls imo, that money could have been spent elsewhere and it would have yielded much better returns.

The price tag is making that signing look a lot worse, even though Wallace didn't have a terrible year when it was all said and done. Tyson Chandler's revival in New Orleans doesn't help matters though I still don't think the Bulls would be getting the same performance from him.