The "Have Your Random NBA Question Answered" Thread

[john26]

On jumpball at the start of the game can you stand anywhere or do the teams have to be separated (like in 2k11)

[benji]

As far as I know, there are positions to stand for the players on all jumpballs. You can see the referees correcting players from time to time, especially on ones done at the free throw line.

EDIT: The rule,

g. The eight non-jumpers will remain outside the restraining circle until the ball has been tapped. Teammates may not occupy adjacent positions around the restraining circle if an opponent desires one of the positions. No player may position himself immediately behind an opponent on the restraining circle. Penalty for c., d., e., f., g.: Ball awarded out-of-bounds to the opponent.
h. Player position on the restraining circle is determined by the direction of a player's basket. The player whose basket is nearest shall have first choice of position, with position being alternated thereafter.

[NovU]

Was there ever a serious Lebron/Jordan VS Kobe discussion in our forums? It's for my friend who got into a heated discussion in another forums(apparently "6 rings"/"Watch the game" arguments). I found the one with benji and koberulz discussion. Were there any other great posts or thread on it?

[Andrew]

Possibly one or two. I think those kind of threads do eventually descend into fanboy/hater arguments after a while, no matter where they are. Sports are Serious Business, after all.

[shadowgrin]

Was there ever a serious Lebron/Jordan VS Kobe discussion in our forums?

The NLSC "regulars" probably got tired of the numerous player vs player comparison threads that have been discussed in the last decade or so, so you don't see it as much today as it were in the days of Jordan vs Kobe, Shaq vs Wilt, Kobe vs T-Mac (remember him? lol) in the forums.

You can start a new one if you like to. Just set a condition that certain "old regulars" are not allowed to participate in the thread, like benji so he won't make you all look like fools, or Andrew, or Jae, or anyone that has posted in the black and blue forums, etc. Up to you really.

I can't wait to see an exchange between NovU and z02.

[NovU]

Jordan vs Kobe, Shaq vs Wilt, Kobe vs T-Mac (remember him? lol) in the forums.

That's actually what I was looking for. Jordan vs Kobe. But I don't remember there being a serious one like last benji's Lebron talk.

[buzzy]

Is their anything on the web where I can buy full NBA games?
Has the NBA itself provided this service before?

[Andrew]

http://www.pontel.com/

Classic games and recent games alike.

[koberulz]

Anyone know the formula for individual TOV%? B-R appears to only list the team formula.

[benji]

No, it doesn't.

[koberulz]

All I can find is the one in the glossary, which is way too short to be an individual formula. Am I just looking in the wrong spot?

[benji]

The one in the glossary is correct. Why would you assume it's "way too short" when there's even shorter individual formulas?

[koberulz]

Well, having looked at the formula for, say, Possessions, which is the team formula, ridiculously long, and says the individual formula is even longer...and wouldn't you need to know the number of possessions in order to determine which percentage of them are turned over? Why are assists not taken into account? The formula as listed seems like it would give ridiculously high numbers for people who don't shoot much.

What's a reasonable TOV% for a player to have? Teams seemed to be around 12-15% from what I could find, but running it on a few players gets numbers like 16 or 22%.

[benji]

You do, (FGA + 0.44*FTA + TOV) is the individual possession formula.

Why would you take assists into account, they aren't the ending point of a possession, it'd also reduce the turnover rate for anyone who assists a lot and what relation does that have to turnovers?

If you don't shoot much and turn it over a lot why shouldn't your turnover rate be high? All you're doing with your possessions is turning it over.

A "reasonable" turnover rate depends on your usage rate and your teammates. Most star non-point guards are 12% or less. Most star point guards are 15% or less.

[koberulz]

Why would you take assists into account, they aren't the ending point of a possession

An assist necessitates a score, which is the end of a possession. Surely?

it'd also reduce the turnover rate for anyone who assists a lot and what relation does that have to turnovers?

If you get an assist, why wouldn't that count as a possession in which you didn't turn the ball over? An assist is still producing points, which is a positive.

A "reasonable" turnover rate depends on your usage rate and your teammates. Most star non-point guards are 12% or less. Most star point guards are 15% or less.

And yet Ricky Grace, the greatest point guard in NBL history according to most, is at 22%. 'Conventional wisdom' can be wrong, sure, but can it be that wrong? Or am I missing something?

[benji]

The shot the other player takes ends the possession.

Oh, thought we were talking about professional leagues. Not amateur ones. I can't tell you shit about the "reasonable" numbers for every rec league in the world.

[koberulz]

The shot the other player takes ends the possession.

And? You can still determine quite easily that the player in question hasn't turned the ball over in that possession.

Oh, thought we were talking about professional leagues. Not amateur ones. I can't tell you shit about the "reasonable" numbers for every rec league in the world.

...what.

[benji]

And? You can still determine quite easily that the player in question hasn't turned the ball over in that possession.

He didn't use the possession, the player shooting did.

...what.

I think it's pretty clear. Different leagues have different standards. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize Chris Paul would vaporize the hell out of the NBL but the league average for point guards could still be 30% TOV%.

Making a massive leap and assuming Mr. Grace would keep his numbers in the NBA his most similar point guards in possession usage are:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... kro01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... iro02.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ipe01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... oma01.html

[koberulz]

He didn't use the possession, the player shooting did.

So it's less a measure of turnover percentage than a measure of turnover-to-shot ratio? I mean, as pointed out on another forum:

Point guard 1 has the following game:
0/0 FG, 0/0 FT, 15 ast, 5 stl, 2 to

Point guard 2 has the following game:
0/16 FG, 0/4 FT, 0 ast, 0 stl, 2 to

Point guard 1's Turnover Percentage = 100%
Point guard 2's Turnover Percentage = 10%

Different leagues have different standards. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize Chris Paul would vaporize the hell out of the NBL but the league average for point guards could still be 30% TOV%.

And, of course, the NBL doesn't have advanced stats available, so you can't easily check the average. Still, given that most numbers are coming out at 18-25%...

On the other hand, Grace's NBA TOV% is superb...

[benji]

The first player used only two possessions, both of which he turned it over on. The second player used 20ish, two of which he turned it over on. Not rocket surgery and also a sample size of one game, aka meaningless.

Not sure what you're expecting out of box score stats.

This is from years ago for David, a lot of it is useless/outdated but some of it may help you: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/820953/nbl.xlsx

[koberulz]

Not sure what you're expecting out of box score stats.

I really don't see why the metric doesn't involve assists. Obviously the box score can't give you turnovers per touch, but including assists would get a lot closer to that, which at least as far as I can see would be a better evaluation metric.

[benji]

Because assists don't end a possession. What do you gain from including assists? It tells you nothing about how the player ended a possession. It will just lower the turnover rate as you get more assists which is useless information.

In your first player example his turnover rate would be 11%. Which means he somehow had .24 turnovers in the game since he still only used two possessions.

[koberulz]

What exactly does one achieve by determining a player's TOV%? It's clearly not how likely that player is to turn the ball over, which is what it initially sounds like and I could see the use for.

[benji]

How is it not? LeBron uses 31.5% of Miami's possessions and turns it over on 13.8% of those, so when he's on the court there's a 4.3% chance he'll end Miami's possessions with a turnover.

[Abctest123]

Although he never played in the NBA, Mark Jackson's brother Troy played in college at 500+ pounds.

Since this thread is bumped up, I was reading through the older posts and I came across this. Not thread worthy obviously, but I never knew until today that Troy "Escalade" Jackson was related to Mark Jackson.