Love not interested in staying longer in Minnesota

[Andrew]

Against the Bulls, though? It's not as though they've got Shaq in his prime to throw at the Cavs.

[air gordon]

Cavs will probably hide love on d by having him guard Noah. Put sideshow on gasol. Best chance to punish Cleveland frontcourt would be to put Gibson and gasol together and compliment them with perimeter shooters

[_Steve_]

Love is an pretty good one on one defender on the block BUT he's in real trouble when he has to guard pick and rolls.
As mentioned before Varejão has health issues over the past couole of years.
Thompson might be a solid defender but lacks size and strenght to go against a legit 7 footer.
On offense Cavs could play Love at C and LeBron at PF, on defense this combination would make them vulnerable.
That's why I think Cleveland will have trouble against bigger frontcourts this may even include the Pistons.

[Jackal]

Lots of smack talk against Gasol, looking forward to what kind of season he'll have.

Will be a fun season all around.

[NovU]

The Cavs' problem is probably that they don't have a rim protector (LBJ but he's a SF more with LoveJao). I think Varejao is a great defender but an average rim protector. Love has lateral quickness to guard perimeter and strength to bang in the post but is a midget 6'7" PF who can't contend shots vertically. This is something Miami got away without having. So there's probably still good chance that they will be ok defensively. But top 5 I'd assume won't happen. Waiters and Irving are terrible defenders and probably needs to be addressed as well.

Lots of smack talk against Gasol, looking forward to what kind of season he'll have.

Jackal, I have less expectation on Gasol than Wade. Looking at last 2 seasons, Gasol was under average player overall and is older than Wade by 2 years, and just as injury prone. Wade however was a star though not a superstar.

[NovU]

From the ROTO

The Cavaliers are still trying to acquire Timofey Mozgov, according to Brian Windhorst of ESPN.
As the Cavs continue their search for a center to backup Anderson Varejao, their search is focused on the Nuggets' Mozgov and Kosta Koufos of the Memphis Grizzlies. Windhorst adds that the Cavs have been trying to acquire Mozgov for the last six to eight weeks while the Grizzlies are reluctant to part with Koufos due to Marc Gasol's injury last season. Mozgov wouldn't have much fantasy value in Cleveland, but a trade could open up more minutes for JaVale McGee and J.J. Hickson in Denver.

Cool, as we were just talking about lack of depth at C.

[air gordon]

Good chance they are ok defensively?

You just stated their backcourt has one guy who is arguably the worst defender in the league and the other is a terrible defender.

Lebron gave up caring about defense. So its Andersen mutombo that's keeping everything together?

[NovU]

Dont you think LBJ and Varejao are capable defensive anchors?

LBJ in his career never played on a bad defensive team largely due to his own presence. What makes you think it changes now with him still in prime. Better yet how much do you think they will struggle defensively? Below league avg?

As a matter of fact, their defense only has to be ok. They got the best player in the world and the best powerforward in the world. Does anyone really believe they need to be a top defensive team to compete at the top level? LoL

[air gordon]

Your decree of defense is about system, not individual PLAYEerS

Varejao is a capable defender but hardly is a defensive anchor. Opponents will not alter their game plans because andersen mutombo is patrolling the paint

James was a good defender but we already had this discussion. He rests on defense, usually deferring to guard the weaker of the perimeter scorers. Even last year he was fatigued guarding Tony parker for small stretches. He will be having his vaginal cramps during the regular season if he is expected to be a defensive stopper for most of the game

It's a legit argument the Cleveland defense will indeed struggle considering these factors along with 2 poor perimeter defenders

When the bulls faced miami, they had to worry about stopping their offense AND put up points.

This year against the cavs, stopping them will still be a concern but putting up points shouldn't be a major obstacle.
I never said they wont be able to "compete"

[NovU]

I agree that 2 poor perimeter defenders are a concern. But don't believe Waiters playing time is guaranteed if he becomes a liability in entire defense scheme. Miller, Jones, Dellavedova and Marion could eat up his minutes to death.

The Heat defense did fine last season otherwise for the Finals. The Heat did it without a legit 7 footer. LBJ practically replaced Bosh, Wade, Birdman with young legs of Varejao, Irving, Love. Keep in mind this eliminates rebounding problem the Heat had, which was the main reason for Heat's defense struggle for giving up so much size. I don't believe teams now easily can dominate inside against LBJ. Size advantage is history against his team.

Difference is now that LBJ gets to roam around perimeter more on defensive end . Penetration now deals with LBJ at near top of the key praying for steals and Varejao/love inside clogging lanes and eyeing for rebound.

This year against the cavs, stopping them will still be a concern but putting up points shouldn't be a major obstacle.

Even if that's true, creating(or protecting) possession won't be as easy now even with size. The teams will have to do it more efficiently because LoveJaoBron won't allow as many possession as they did in Miami for your team to work with.

[_Steve_]

Defense is why I'd kept Wiggins and signed Love later.

[air gordon]

The Miami comparison is invalid according to you since we don't know what system the coach will be using

Varejao saw his better days as a defender back when ilgauskas was around. Chalmers defense is better than any cleveland perimeter player or whatever washed up veteran they sign

James shouldn't be roaming like a free safety since he'll be forced to guard the other teams best wing scorer and still provide help side for his poor perimeter defense playing teammates

[NovU]

The Miami comparison is invalid according to you since we don't know what system the coach will be using

LoL. That fallacy is what you made out of our entire discussion so far?

[NovU]

phpBB [video]

[air gordon]

This is nothing new. Sideshow is nowhere near a rim protector bogut is. GSW has 2 solid defenders in Thompson AND Iggy. Hinrich is a sold defender while Irving and waiters are turnstiles

The vid even confirmed James doesn't play defense anymore lol

[NovU]

It indeed is nothing new. That's the thing. It's proven LBJ can play defense, so can Varejao. Especially when demanded with higher stake, there's no reason to believe they will suck entirely at defense.

Like I said, poor defensive backcourt is a concern but their overall D probably is already considered well above league average (thus Ok but not superb). Question is how much and will it be enough? It's stupid to be saying their defense will be top notch but it's also only morons that are saying their defense will entirely stink.

[air gordon]

Hey Hyperbole- who said their defense will entirely suck?

Your post doesn't add up. They are "probably" considered well above average yet you concluded they are just ok?! And who is this varejao guy? Probably the Brazilian bill Russell?

There's no shame in admitting James can't be that defensive force anymore. There will be an awful lot of pressure on him to guard the oppositions best perimeter player every game. There's no one on that roster, not even on chalmers level, to help him on the perimeter. Marion, miller or whatever curbside trash they bring is not the answer

[NovU]

Your post doesn't add up. They are "probably" considered well above average yet you concluded they are just ok?! And who is this varejao guy? Probably the Brazilian bill Russell?

It perfectly adds up. The Suns and Magic had average defense last season. Being just better than those perfectly average defensive teams deserves no more than 'ok' label. Why this is hard to understand is beyond me actually.

As for Varejao, he's a capable defender by all means of stats. Check out his defensive rating (from various metrics). He's actually not garbage as you're trying to depict. Also consider the Cavs LBJ/Love boosted now, the players can spend more energy on defense as they win.

There's no shame in admitting James can't be that defensive force anymore. There will be an awful lot of pressure on him to guard the oppositions best perimeter player every game. There's no one on that roster, not even on chalmers level, to help him on the perimeter. Marion, miller or whatever curbside trash they bring is not the answer

Cut the nonsensical crap. Just say how bad you think Cavs will be defensively? I get the notion that 'under-average' by your logic. Defensive system nor synergy don't matter nor exist in basketball but only individual's capability as a defender matters.

Great. LBJ is dead and Varejao is garbage, I get that. So the Cavs defense is absolutely non existent according to you, lollolol. Great.

[air gordon]

So your logic is well above average is = ok
What is average? Just ok? Lol

If you had a chance to score a date with maggie Gyllenhaal, would you be bragging to your friends about it? Yeah sure she is well known actress but its maggie Gyllenhaal!


2 inferior perimeter defenders + guy who used to play defense + good rebounder + "capable" center = well above average/ok?

Varejao is capable but to what extent? Is he on the level as a rim protector as bogut or noah? Or broke back howard? Even gortat?

Gasol owned sideshow and nene in fiba. Good times

Lets see lebron play stopper for most of the game. Should start a cramp tally.

[NovU]

Only issue here is that you have no real point in your argument.

I already get that you think LBJ is a dead body on defense and Varejao is a shit rim protector. And everyone else is shit nuggets. (So you can stop repeating this same crap over and over again.)

But what are you really saying here? So the Cavs are horrendous defensive team that will falter away from being a contender? Or are you simply suggesting that they are bad defensively? So you don't believe they won't be a better defensive team than league average Hawks/Suns/Magic? Oh boy. Stop dodging the real question.

[air gordon]

I already answered the question, Claire.

It's your prerogative if you think none my points don't make a point. I'm not going to have a debate with someone that deals in hyperbole... And in absolute, Sith Lord. I never said Cleveland is out of the contender conversation.

Throwing around words like capable, listing 2 words that don't mean the same thing but insist they do, saying defense is about system then later saying opposite, and name calling my points doesn't make a sound argument.

Sure against the league as a whole, their weakness on d will not be exposed. Shit, even the bulls cracked 100pts a few times with that train wreck offense. That should put them somewhere at average at best. Against any good team, they are going to struggle. We'll see it in the marquee games and we'll see it in the later stages in the playoffs assuming the east improves

If this discussion is at the point of crapping and lol, I'll let you continue it with your buddy, velvet

[NovU]

Your points made little sense because it led to no real point.


What you just said is actually more serious farce in hyperbole than my 'above avg' prediction. Not built for playoffs, against good teams, SHIT that's genius.

[air gordon]

Thanks, coprophiliac! Say hi to Maggie!