Miami Heat Thread

[NovU]

That article's got some great points, benji. All this time, Lebron was actually better on post up than Kobe. The stats says so.

I want to see how others here will try to counter his logic.

[shadowgrin]

I think 'informed' basketball fans know that James can score in the post, the gripe is he doesn't do it enough with that freakish body of his.
As the article shows he 'only' had 160 post-ups as compared to Bryant's 300, Joe Johnson's 202, and Carmelo's 274.
Considering he's effective, he should do more of it.

[NovU]

Considering he's effective, he should do more of it.

it was effective, but those possessions also killed the shot clock, and when the defense brought a defender from the weakside,

While most people tend to primarily think of back-to-the-basket moves when picturing a player posting up, the face-up game, from the same position, is just as important.

I still don't see the point that why people(including koberulz) consider post up moves are such an important part of the game that Lebron really needs to improve/expand on. Why? Is it really the best for “It’s about him really becoming the best player he can be,” case? Why and how, really?

“People don’t realize it’s hard for him to get great at something because he can do so many things,” Fizdale said. “He could come off a screen and catch and shoot, he can run pick and roll, he can isolate, he can post – for him to master something he has to really lock in on that one thing but it’s hard for him because when you’re good at so many things, it’s harder to spend time on one of them.

Does he really have to become a post-up player when he's also good at so many other things and can be just as effective if not better?

[benji]

He doesn't do it because he wants to go to the basket, and Spoelstra doesn't have any kind of offense they could run around a LeBron post-up anyway.

You could come down and post one of the three every single time with the other two on the weak side. Then rotate it around the three back to the original one who has cut to the basket as the last step if the D doesn't break down. The Kings used to do this and nobody figured it out.

They need some time to play together and a better supporting cast no matter what. LeBron turning into the greatest post player ever won't solve everything, especially against the Bulls D.

[shadowgrin]

I was referring to post scoring in general and not a single specific move that he did with the Cavs...

In Cleveland, James was the definition of a bruiser in the post. He would back down his defenders with multiple dribbles, often from the left side of the key, looking to use his size to get an edge on his defender, turn over his right shoulder into the middle of the paint and either finish over the top or draw a foul. As the numbers showed, it was effective, but those possessions also killed the shot clock, and when the defense brought a defender from the weakside, James lacked a counter-move to get himself out of trouble. The ball would stick, and the team would be left scrambling with a short clock.

...and over dribbling in the post is always trouble. Just ask any person who likes to play in the post.

[imefimef]

I think 'informed' basketball fans know that James can score in the post, the gripe is he doesn't do it enough with that freakish body of his.
Considering he's effective, he should do more of it.

Well considering he's more effective driving the basketball, why should he even post up at all?

[rise]

So it doesn't get too predictable. If he does the same move over and over and over again, you'd think a half way decent team would be able to stop it.

[Andrew]

You'd think so, but when a player has the skills and an athletic/physical advantage, it's still sometimes easier said than done. Similarly, Kobe's offense is a bit predictable at times, it's usually obvious when he's going to shoot or try and take someone off the dribble (he often stiffens and goes into a familiar combination of fakes and jukes) but he still scores at will when he wants to.

[Dan's Brain]

it's also a question of longevity. Once the athleticism is gone (which is admittedly a long way away), then driving to the basket isnt going to be anywhere near as effective.

[imefimef]

Umm is anybody else watching LeBron terrorize people, burn down villages and eat babies? Or is it just me?
And for the koberulz and batman(aka charlie sheen) nd others, has he answered the whole "LeBron can't hit a jumpshot to save his life and def can't hit a shot in the clutch if the fate of the heats (and or the world) depends on it? And what I find super duper funny is this:

Best record in the east, 60 plus wins, lost to team with multiple threats in the playoffs.
LeBron: Sucks, can't hit a jumpshot to save a life, is unclutch, should go die somewhere.
Derick Rose: Oh he doesn't have enough help??
First, LeBron never even had as much as Carloz Boozer and Luol Deng and secondly if now you know players need help to win championships, why are u getting mad at LeBron for teaming up with Wade and Bosh?
Bottom line, doesn't matter what Bron Bron does, people just enjoy hating on greatness.
If only this happen pre my post getting locked. And that is all folks.

[NovU]

It's understandable why so many don't like him as everyone got their own personal standard.

But it was funny people saying that he didn't deserve to be in All NBA Defensive team or that he isn't as great on defence as hyped, even after his playoffs performance. He shut down league MVP in Rose to Finals MVP from 3 seasons ago in Paul Pierce, while playing PF position often times and helping out greatly on Help D. Evidently, he's done something that nobody could have done in today's league could(can anyone guard pg to pf consistently?). The stats were there all season long why he was a great defender. If that didn't convince anyone they just had to watch couple Heat games. Yet doubters gone doubt, or haters gone hate.

Now it's will be fun to see if he could guard Dirk effectively, which is something that nobody was able to do even 7 footers like Pau and Bynum.

[Martti.]

James was impressive, but I still believe Deng > LeBron defensively.

[imefimef]

James was impressive, but I still believe Deng > LeBron defensively.

Hahaha omg that's ridiculos, sure Deng is a great defender that's not up for debate but he is not the caliber defender James is, especially after what we've seen in these playoffs. There's no way you tell me than Loul Deng can pretty much shut down a Derrick Rose, he could'nt stay if front of LeBron(not because he isn't good but because LeBron is so quick/fast) but Rose is pretty quick himself(fast don't lie) and LeBron was able to keep Rose in front of him consistently. And Deng is pretty much a no factor in the shot blocking department (on ball or off ball). Bottom line like the post above me says, LeBron can gaurd 1 to 4 (idk about 5 yet) almost Scottie pipen-ish(lol I kno not as good, but if Scottie said LeBron is prolly better than Jordan, you can live with this) and you simply can't say the same for Deng.

[url]sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6599168[/url]

[NovU]

The season comes to an end with a bit of bitterness in what could have been if it weren't for those collapses in 2 Finals games. I like how the Heat got so close to winning it all but still hard to swallow those final few losses. Especially the ones that we were looking so comfortable with only a few minutes left on the clock. It just shows how the Heat were so close to closing the series in 4 if everything went right but the Mavericks were surprisingly good throughout the playoffs consistently getting it done in crunch time, a few against OKC and then against the Heat. In the end, the Mavericks completely figured out the Heat and played better as a team. The Heat had no answer in 4th and 3rd sometimes. Whether it was Lebron disappearing or Wade making clumsy mistakes, the Mavericks just were better. Simple as that. And Dirk finally getting the ring, it was long due I guess. It's hard to say it as a Heat fan but he deserved it over Lebron and Wade. If I am right, he set the record as the player who took the most years to win the ring while remaining as a team's top scorer throughout all those years. Also their team showed that old guys still can play some serious ball and kick some young uns asses. They became the oldest team to win the championship(Correct me if I am wrong) and probably the one of the most wise ones as well. Only thing I hate about the Mavericks is their owner but he's a winner I guess. Still there just is something about him that I always hated.

Back to the Heat talk, this was an odd season that was filled with worries, doubts, frustration but also with excitement and lots of fun. There was a time when the Heat were looking like a 500 team. There was a time when the Heat were looking unstoppable. And there was a time when it seemed like the Heat trio were just unable to beat the teams with winning record, consistently. In the result the Heat had to fight till the last game of the season to secure the home court advantage over the Celtics. Overall the regular season left me with the feeling that the Heat had shortcomings in many criteria as my expectations were higher. However, I am happy how the playoffs turned out to be. The playoffs experience I think will eventually make this team better. The team looked to have figured out how to play their best ball at times. If they could build on that and be able to play like that consistently I think next season the Heat will become the true powerhouse which they were supposed to be this year.

And I tried evaluating the team for the season on some key players. Grade ranges from A++ to F.

Riley/Spoeltra: B+
Despite the heavy criticism, I finally came to an understanding that they’ve done well both in managing and coaching the team. This wasn’t an easy team to coach and both Riley and Spoeltra had to figure it out as the season went on. I know I know Riley didn’t coach. But he still had much impact and control over the coaching job. And Riley definitely did his job right surrounding the trio with all available veterans around the league.

Lebron James A
Best player arguably both during the regular season and playoffs. His Win Share stats speak for itself, best in the team. He was unselfish most of time and proved that he had no problem sharing the spotlight with Wade. Of course, the Finals performance was bit discouraging as it seemed he was deferring too much. People say he was choking and his nerves got the best of him. And I actually agree with them to a certain extent. He didn’t need to do anything else or do anything differently but do what he was doing all his career long but he didn’t and just shied away. For that reason alone, he doesn’t get + or +s on his A. And here’s to the hopes that he will come stronger next year, mainly mentally better prepared.

Dwyane Wade A+
He did what he always has been doing as a Heat. His stats remained pretty much the same from his previous years. Perhaps little bit lower in some categories but even taking that into consideration the changes in statistics department is mere when he’s also sharing the court with Lebron James. We couldn’t really ask much more from him as this Wade probably is as good as he can get.

Chris Bosh B-
He played like a Bosh. But I’m pleasantly surprised on some of his stats as they aren’t really too shabby when you consider all those criticism he has been getting. Nonetheless, he was soft in many games and wasn’t able to toughen up the interior. As a superstar in his prime, he cannot be the weak link in so many games. Am I the only one that wants to see him getting some muscle on his body? Perhaps, having been in Toronto so long around so many European players, he naturally got soft.[/jk]

Joel Anthony B
The Heat certainly didn’t expect much from him this season but he provided more occasionally. Only if he could finish around the rim better and learned what to do when he has a ball in his hand, he certain could have logged more minutes in the playoffs.

Mario Chalmers C
He was a nice surprise in the playoffs. I am guessing it will lead him to a big contract this off season. As I have been saying I wouldn’t mind him not coming back. He was far from the Heat’s answer at 1.

Mike Bibby C-
I always have been a fan of him ever since Vancouver drafted him at number 2. But he definitely is a has-been. I feel sorry for him with this joining the Heat thing not working out for him despite the money loss. Thank you though for letting me root hard for you once again.

Mike Miller & Udonis Haslem D
Imagine what it could have been with these 2 healthy in the line up all season long. Arguably 2 best players other than the trio. They get a passing grade in D as they at least came back in last minute.

[Andrew]

I believe they've extended the qualifying offer to Chalmers, making him a restricted free agent. I'd say he'll be back and that's not a bad move, he's a respectable defender who can also knock down shots and does a decent job of handling the ball. With Wade and LeBron around, the Heat don't need Chris Paul at point guard. That's not to say they can't or shouldn't look to upgrade at point guard but if they're at least keeping Chalmers around as a backup, I think that's a solid decision.

[NovU]

I'd say he'll be back and that's not a bad move, he's a respectable defender who can also knock down shots and does a decent job of handling the ball. With Wade and LeBron around, the Heat don't need Chris Paul at point guard.

120% agreeing with you. Wade and Lebron make it hard for ordinary PGs to shine as they carry the ball a lot, replacing PG's job constantly. It'd be pretty sweet if we could keep this guy. But this guy has never been paid big bucks and I am feeling this time there is going to be at least one team in the league who will overpay this guy. Not sure if the Heat will match it or not. Also you are right that I am hoping for an upgrade as he was mistake prone.

[Andrew]

I doubt he'll get too many ridiculous offers that they're unlikely to match. He's currently got the chance to start or at least play for a team that has a chance at winning it all and they probably won't lowball him, so there's probably a good chance that his preference is to stay. Of course, it remains to be seen how everything will work under a new CBA, if indeed we have a season next year.

[Andrew]

Riley lauds Heat season, says he won’t coach again

Doesn't sound like Spoelstra's going anywhere and even if he was, it seems Riley wouldn't be taking his place unless it was temporarily and out of necessity. I think that's a good approach, Spoelstra's taken too many hits for the Finals loss. I thought he did a good job this year, if not for LeBron's quiet fourth quarters and some other player errors, the Heat could be champions and nobody would be calling for Spoelstra to be fired.

[shadowgrin]

No surprise there. It works well for Riley. He gets to 'coach' Spoelstra on what to do and at the same time avoids the flak if the team goes through a rough stretch.

[NovU]

One of buddy who happens to be a pinoy and a Mav fan told me that his dad likes the Heat cuz Spo is half filipino. After the Mavs won in the Finals he wrote "YEAH DALLAS FTW" or something like that on his facebook page. I simply replied "I blame the coach..."

[shadowgrin]

I have nothing against Spo preaching his Filipino roots (even if he's as Filipino as Jae ever will be) since he did some charity work here during the past offseasons that's not picked up by the mainstream media. Unlike those 'foreginers' that say they are proud of their Filipino roots for the sake of peddling whatever they are selling here. That slut from the Pussycat Dolls comes to mind.

Though I'm annoyed at the news media here always inserting the words "half-Filipino" whenever referring to Spoelstra or the Heat, especially in the Finals coverage as if it has any relevance to the game.

[Andrew]

I think it's the same the world over. The brief mentions that Kyrie Irving gets in the Aussie sports media tend to note that he was born in Melbourne, holds dual citizenship and has expressed an interest in playing for the Boomers. I can't recall that being widely mentioned by the US media (and fair enough, he's an American citizen and has lived there since he was two), I think most countries like to lay claim to famous/successful people wherever they can...at least until they do something to tarnish their reputation.

[Dan's Brain]

Russell Crowe wins an Oscar, he's Australia's Russell Crowe.

Russell Crowe chucks a phone at someone, he's New Zealand-born.

And Mel Gibson.... I think we disowned Mel a long time ago.

[NovU]

My buddy also told me Spo made it to coaching from video tapes analyst or something. Making him definitely not one of your usual coaches out there. Well, I like his personality and what he has done for this team in three seasons as a coach. Wade always has been cool with him and rarely had a problem so I hope to see him winning titles with this team. Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7... Yes we will.

[shadowgrin]

Wade always has been cool with him (Spoelstra) and rarely had a problem so I hope to see him winning titles with this team. Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7... Yes we will.

Always? Not really.