Mo Williams traded to Cavs

I had a really nice post about how Mo isn't a pass first pg, but then my internet stuffed up - and I cant be bothered redoing it.

So I'll just say this - without more stats surrounding it, that assist % doesnt say who is a pass first pg - it just says who gives out more assists.

I had a really nice post about how Mo isn't a pass first pg, but then my internet stuffed up - and I cant be bothered redoing it.

So I'll just say this - without more stats surrounding it, that assist % doesnt say who is a pass first pg - it just says who gives out more assists.

What might those stats be? Also, assist % doesn't say he gives out assists. That's only a part of it. Assist % tells you what % of the rest of the team's baskets are assisted, not necessarily from the player. This is the only single stat (that I know of?) that accounts for "second assists" which I always felt does exist in basketball should should be reflected somehow representing a player's ability to start an offense.

I wouldnt have a clue what the stats are...

Does this stat mean that of all Milwaukee's assists, Mo gave out 30% of them while he was on the court?

Wow what a terrible trade for the bucks. They trade Mo and Mason for Luke Ridnour???? I thought we should be getting more. Not just expiring contracts.

No, as I said, it means that Williams assisted on 30% of his teammates baskets while on the court.

Ridnour had an assist or passing turnover on 40% of his touches, Williams did on 32%.

That doesn't seem very conclusive... I'm sure Arenas assists on quite a high % of his team mates baskets as well...

Either way, from what I've heard Mo is nothing like a pass first pg...

Just out of interest, is there a statistic that measures a player's passing in context, such as assisting on baskets simply because his own isolation attempt has failed or taking bad/contested shots rather than looking for teammates? Obviously such "watch the game" assessments are subjective, so I'd be interested to know if and how that kind of play is reflected in the stats.

is there a statistic that measures a player's passing in context, such as assisting on baskets simply because his own isolation attempt has failed or taking bad/contested shots rather than looking for teammates?

Yes, it's the number of those things.

I'm sure Arenas assists on quite a high % of his team mates baskets as well...

27-27.5%.

I wouldn't use assist percentage to define "pass-first" but still:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... i?id=IgA5z

Yes, it's the number of those things.

Well, I figured as much but isn't that still subjective? I mean, we can define what constitutes a bad shot or selfish decision but I was just interested if there was anything more objective or reflected in any other way in the stats you're interested in.

glad to see Mo Williams out of Milwaukee, although I'm sure they could've got something more....let's hope Ridnour improves a lot....not holding out on it though....

bucks did it because of the luxury tax! and what a move for cavs!!! i wish it would be miami instead them, we need solid pg too! this mean only one thing - riley has cooked up smth good already and soon we'll found out what!

Well, I figured as much but isn't that still subjective? I mean, we can define what constitutes a bad shot or selfish decision but I was just interested if there was anything more objective or reflected in any other way in the stats you're interested in.

That's the entire point. Stats are just data to support arguments, arguing something is important or not is just the human addition. I personally don't put a lot of worth into assists or passing, lots of people think it is very important.

Especially using Synergy anyone could find any of that. The question is what's important. We put a lot of value on "hustle" but most of it is really irrelevant.

I like this trade for the Cavs, this gives then an option to put in a running team on the floor to match or out run other teams. Perhaps they can also trade away the big Z and create a new look on the floor. A team that will run more, and more dynamic in the roles in offense.

OKC I think did well too. They get solid veteran players to help develop their young team, and they get to dump a contract they were unhappy with. Perhaps this will also play a big factor in settling down in their new home. Plus, they will have millions to spend on free agents in the 2009-10 or even wait up until the great fire sale known as the 2010 free agency. Hopefully they aren't going after go after the likes of steve francis, jason kidd or Antoine walker in '09.

Free agents in 2009 and 2010
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... ents-09-10

The bucks though, I have no idea what they are trying to do. I guess they don't think Yi will ever be a superstar in the league and traded him for the proven veteran Richard Jefferson. Then I guess they wanted a more traditional point guard. But I really doubt this formula will turn out aces for the bucks.

I ran a few eight-ten man rotations for the teams involved, using players from last year:
Cavaliers. Statistical Projection: 48-49 wins.

Code:

james,lebron   40.2 ilgauskas,zydrun   31.5 gibson,daniel   29.1 varejao,anderson   27.6 pavlovic,sasha   13.1 jones,dwayne   6.3 williams,maurice   33.9 wallace,ben   31.5 west,delonte   21.8 szczerbiak,wally   7.3

Bucks. Statistical Projection: 25-26 wins. (I almost gave up trying to figure out logical minutes for all the reserve guards. Only a team owned by a Senator could turn a point/combo guard glut into...another.)

Code:

bogut,andrew   36.3 redd,michael   37.8 ridnour,luke   29.1 villanueva,charl   33.9 allen,malik   7.3 bell,charlie   14.5 lue,tyronn   9.7 jones,damon   7.7 elson,francisco   9.7 gadzuric,dan   7.3 sessions,ramon   10.2 jefferson,richar   38.7

Thunder. Statistical Projection: 22-24 wins. (I used Marko Jaric for Russell Westbrook. I have my reasons. None of them good. Using Ridnour is 22-23 wins.)

Code:

durant,kevin   35.3 watson,earl   31.4 green,jeff   22.7 collison,nick   30.0 wilkins,damien   12.1 wilcox,chris   30.0 petro,johan   12.1 mason,desmond   26.6 smith,joe   17.4 swift,robert   4.8 sene,mouhamed   2.4 westbrook,russell   16.9

I like this trade for the Cavs, this gives then an option to put in a running team on the floor to match or out run other teams. Perhaps they can also trade away the big Z and create a new look on the floor. A team that will run more, and more dynamic in the roles in offense.

It's not only the players, it's the coach's system also. Mike Brown isn't high on a running offense, he likes them half-court set-ups.

I like this trade for the Cavs, this gives then an option to put in a running team on the floor to match or out run other teams. Perhaps they can also trade away the big Z and create a new look on the floor. A team that will run more, and more dynamic in the roles in offense.

It's not only the players, it's the coach's system also. Mike Brown isn't high on a running offense, he likes them half-court set-ups.

Perhaps it's a holdover from his days on the Spurs coaching staff. But in my opinion trying to build a team to play half court sets centering around LeBron is a waste of his talent. New look might mean new coach. hehe...

There won't be a power struggle between williams and lebron no way. If williams is open lebron will pass it to him, lebron needed help plain and simple, he doesn't care how he wins or how many points he has he just wants to win. As far as trading big z, i love him he can shoot first of all did you see that three point shot a couple of years ago he made against phoenix? And don't forget they already have varajeo plus they have the rights to sasha khaun? If you're going to trade big z trade him for a shooting gaurd because cleveland needs one bad. All they have is kinsey and they might use one of their point gaurds as a shooting gaurd. They need to fire mike brown maybe? And get an offensive coach and some defensive assistants. But one thing cleveland was stupid to trade hughes and gooden to chicago, they should have gotten michael red and trade gooden to and cedric simmons to another team, maybe for chris wilcox theat would have been better. I like Ben Wallace but he's not a good fit for cleveland in a way he is though because he bring rebounding and blocking. But he's old and too expensive, cleveland trade him for zack randolph is you can!

Last edited by Cleveland wins on Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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