Flopping to be punished

[The X]

But again, I think the most effective method of stamping it out is to not give players the call. Let them flop, but also let them watch the player they were defending square up for an open jumpshot or blow by them for an easy layup or dunk. Then hit them with a T if they get up and complain about it. If there's no reward, there's no incentive.

I think you're onto something here. No calls would be sweet & make the player look like an arse. And as you said, if they complain, hit them with a technical.

[Andrew]

And as I also said, you could still fine players on top of that. If players aren't getting the calls, having their paycheques lightened and perhaps even receiving a one game suspension if they're involved in too many incidents, they won't be resorting to that technique.

[Oskar]

It would be much easier, but it's not like: " Hey, that guy is a flopper, I think he just flopped man ! " always, it's hard to understand it, you have to watch game tape seriously and you must look for a flop if you want to find it. So it's kind a hard to stop the game and it's easy to make wrong calls and get booed then.

[galvatron3000]

I don't see how the league is going to decide who is actually flopping and who is actually drawing the charge. Furthermore, with the game's rules so in favor of the offensive players and the even greater advantages they have I fail to see why the emphasis is on flopping.

I hate both but in all fairness, I hate to see an offensive player get a call for little or no contact just because the league would like score to be up. You can't breathe on a player today without the whistle but we'll sit here and focus on floppers.

Defenders can no longer use their hands. Which helps the player who has no true offensive game, has a mid range game absent from his arsenal and increases the advantage of the Franchise players in the league.

I thought atleast their was some kind of balance but more importantly, unless the footage shows no contact, how can you fine a players when he falls when even on replay you can't always be sure.

This new world we live in where cameras dictate rules, fans have to hear from the coach or player after every quarter in the heat of battle and mic throughout the huddle and on court play is just too much.

Reggie Miller's infamous shot-kick drawed the foul consistently even after it was exposed on national TV. Dennis Rodman was probably the greatest flopper ever but help the BULLS win 3 championships.

It's time out.

Let's not panick and just enjoy the game and tweak rules, that's more controllable.

[puttincomputers]

yeah i hate that shot kick. i played against a kid in my early years who used it. beins i could not jump, " think i was 5'3" 210 at age 13!, and this not unly jumps but kicks as well. i would just back off. i didnt feel like gettin nailed in the privates! often had to think since then that it would have been fun to grab his leg and slam him to the ground. btw his team won the league championship by cheating. his couch was the manager of the league and had the refs in his back pocket.

[shadowgrin]

btw his team won the league championship by cheating. his couch was the manager of the league and had the refs in his back pocket.

Excuses.

[Sauru]

Why is Reggie the poster child for flopping now?

for the offensive flop anyway, divac is the master of the defensive flop

[Modifly]

The only thing I can say is, I wish this rule have been established before Kirilenko flopped

[Andrew]

I thought atleast their was some kind of balance but more importantly, unless the footage shows no contact, how can you fine a players when he falls when even on replay you can't always be sure.

The same way a play is described as a flop now. As long as it's established what constitutes an offensive foul it shouldn't be too difficult. If the player with the ball doesn't extend his forearm or push off or it's clear there's no contact, yet the defender falls down as though they've hit with a knockout punch then it's pretty easy to identify as a flop. One could argue that he simply slipped or lost his balance but I think that too could be proven or disproven simply by watching a player's feet in the replay.

[puttincomputers]

btw his team won the league championship by cheating. his couch was the manager of the league and had the refs in his back pocket.

Excuses.

well lets just put it this way the refs called a foul in the last few seconds on an inbound pass. our player was nowhere close to a defender and it was his last foul. if the foul would not have been given we would have been given the ball due to their inefectiveness of the inbound versus the time. that foul put me on the floor and we only had five guys left. oh and did i mention our best player was injured in that game? oh and even the parents knew it was a bad call.

[galvatron3000]

I thought atleast their was some kind of balance but more importantly, unless the footage shows no contact, how can you fine a players when he falls when even on replay you can't always be sure.

The same way a play is described as a flop now. As long as it's established what constitutes an offensive foul it shouldn't be too difficult. If the player with the ball doesn't extend his forearm or push off or it's clear there's no contact, yet the defender falls down as though they've hit with a knockout punch then it's pretty easy to identify as a flop. One could argue that he simply slipped or lost his balance but I think that too could be proven or disproven simply by watching a player's feet in the replay.

I'd agree but the facts are the offensive calls and blocking calls are NOT consistent so you can't argue that point. Commentators for years stated that players feet (on defense) had to be set in order to draw the charge yet a few years ago on NBA TV the league's lead official, at the time, stated it was in accurate. A player with the ball is not allowed to just plow through a defender. Here's the thing, a charge should be a charge regardless if a player falls or not. A block should be a block but because of the inconsistency with calls, especially throughout this years playoffs, how can you fine a player for just flopping. I've seen clear flops(last year Raja Bell) but for the most part it's a matter of opinion.

Also, if you fine a player then you're saying there was cheating and how will this play into the distrust fans have now since last year's Donague scandal. What if a flop cost a team a game? How can a referee not notice if a ball hit the rim or not, aren't they watching the ball once it goes up? Aren't there three referees? Why don't refs call fouls at the end of playoff games, yet the league and official state over and over again that games are called the same from regular to playoff season? Are makeup call real or imagination?

[Sauru]

i would be more worried about the nba losing fans for not doing something about flopping than for them hurting a team cause a player on thier team is trying to manipulate the reffing

[Andrew]

I'd agree but the facts are the offensive calls and blocking calls are NOT consistent so you can't argue that point. Commentators for years stated that players feet (on defense) had to be set in order to draw the charge yet a few years ago on NBA TV the league's lead official, at the time, stated it was in accurate. A player with the ball is not allowed to just plow through a defender. Here's the thing, a charge should be a charge regardless if a player falls or not. A block should be a block but because of the inconsistency with calls, especially throughout this years playoffs, how can you fine a player for just flopping. I've seen clear flops(last year Raja Bell) but for the most part it's a matter of opinion.

Ideally that would be tightened up as well. If certain guidelines are consistently enforced as far as what constitutes a blocking foul and what constitutes a charging foul then it becomes easier to identify a flop. If there's no push off, no contact, no extension of the arm or dropping of the shoulder by the offensive player, it will cut down on the sketchy charging calls. Furthermore, any player who tries to sell this non-contact by flopping would be punished by a non-call.

Also, if you fine a player then you're saying there was cheating and how will this play into the distrust fans have now since last year's Donague scandal. What if a flop cost a team a game? How can a referee not notice if a ball hit the rim or not, aren't they watching the ball once it goes up? Aren't there three referees? Why don't refs call fouls at the end of playoff games, yet the league and official state over and over again that games are called the same from regular to playoff season? Are makeup call real or imagination?

Well, like I said in my first post in this thread a fine alone isn't going to matter after the fact but it's something the league could do on top of changing the approach to the officiating to further discourage players from flopping. If there's no benefit in flopping because you won't get the call and you get a fine on top of that, you're not going to make a habit of it.