Stern says he wants to stop flopping

[Andrew]

BDL blog here, original article here.

"[Pacers coach Frank Vogel] didn't have a beef; he was just manipulating the refereeing or trying to," Stern said. "I would have fined him much more than our office did."

While Stern chastised Vogel for on Thursday calling the Heat "the biggest flopping team in the NBA," he did intimate that he sees merit in the sentiment.

"I think it's time to look at (flopping) in a more serious way," Stern said, "because it's only designed to fool the referee. It's not a legitimate play in my judgment. I recognize if there's contact (you) move a little bit, but some of this is acting. We should give out Oscars rather than MVP trophies." [...]

"Some years ago I told the competition committee that we were going to start fining people for flopping, and then suspending. And I think they almost threw me out of the room (saying), 'No, let it be.' "

It's nice to hear Stern acknowledge the situation, though as Freeman notes in the BDL blog it seems like Stern is presenting himself as being far more powerless than he really is.

As far as what can be done, you could call a technical foul on the most egregious cases but NBA referees aren't always the best judges when it comes to what warrants a technical and since it's two techs and done, we're likely to see some key players tossed on some questionable flopping calls. I still feel that calling the foul the other way or a non-call is the best course of action. If there's no reward, there's no incentive to flop.

[Nick]

It's a positive sign. I can't stand flopping, it makes me groan.

My only concern is that whatever method they come up with to stop flopping might present a whole new problem/annoyance to deal with. But we'll see.

[Andrew]

That's why I'm not sure about assessing players a tech. It'd slow the game down and it's one step closer to an automatic ejection. Sure, it might encourage players not to flop, but a couple of questionable perceived flops and they're out of the game. Non-calls take away the reward of flopping without slowing the game down, while calling fouls the other way - blocking fouls when players flop trying to draw a charge, offensive fouls when players with the ball initiate contact and flail - adds further incentive not to flop and reinforces the idea that players aren't going to get bailed out by the referees.

The question is, how much gamesmanship do you allow? Where do you draw the line between gamesmanship and flopping, or is there indeed a line in the first place?

[Nick]

Exactly - where's the line?

There's nothing wrong with selling an offensive foul. I mean, most of the time if players didn't sell it, they wouldn't get the call. But then there's flopping: where there's no foul and the refs are tricked into thinking there is. At what point do you punish for flopping vs call the foul vs not call anything at all..? It creates an additional factor for refs to think about. It's hard to decide whether it's worth cracking down on flopping or just accepting it as a flaw of the game.

[Andrew]

It's a tough call to make in a split second, which is why it's easier to say something should be done than implement a system that will prevent flopping. We probably have to accept that we can't stamp out flopping/selling fouls completely and that some gamesmanship is fine. It's the ridiculous, over the top and completely manufactured foul calls that need to be stopped.

You could probably write-off any exaggerated fall by the defender as a flop. When a smaller player runs into a bigger player and the bigger player sells it like they've been shot in the chest by a bazooka, you can probably say it's a flop and be right nine times out of ten, unless the smaller player clearly caught the bigger player with a knee or elbow. If you stop rewarding players who scoot over at the last second to draw a charge - most annoying when the offensive player has already left the ground - then you also eliminate a lot of prime flopping opportunities.

At the other end, you stop rewarding players for jumping and leaning into opponents who are in control and going straight up. They've cracked down a bit on that this year, but they need to get a bit tougher. Just as they assess the offensive foul for sticking out a leg to catch a defender, they need to watch for other little tricks where the offensive player initiates all the contact, purposely gets themselves tangled with the defender and whatnot.

It's still going to be tough to draw the line but I guess you can still look at who's under control and who's playing a bit recklessly, how fake does the aftermath of the contact look, who initiated the contact, etc. Clearer definitions on a few points - what constitutes a continuation and the act of shooting, the conditions for a player being able to draw a charge - would also help.

[[Q]]

as someone who personally loves playing defense and taking charges (not flopping), i don't like penalizing the defense any more than they do now. great offense will always beat great defense, thats the way it is. so the defense is at a bit of a disadvantage already. but then you can't use your hands, and now when there's a guy falling down, it's 1 of 3 things: a charge, a block, or a no-call... 2 of which benefit the offense. on a no-call, it's virtually 5 on 4 which a big enough disadvantage to the defense in my opinion. but to assess a technical during the game or post game? that's a bit much.
this would also penalize guys who do not flop and actually take charges. its a terrible idea.

[Andrew]

It's not about penalising the defense, it's about not rewarding (and discouraging) flopping. If you're going to flop, have a no-call and leave your team playing 5 on 4, then there's a simple solution: don't flop.

[Kenny]

I think fines for blatant cases would probably be the best idea. I wouldn't be so much in favour of video reviews during the game, as it'd slow it down way too much. Start with fines and if people are repeat offenders, then start to think about possible suspensions (like what happens with technicals).

If there's any doubt, the benefit should go to the defender. But cases like Bosh Vs Boozer, I'd say they'd be pretty clear cut.

[Patr1ck]

I think taking no action is the way to go. Players who flop take themselves out of the play. A no call is punishment enough and it doesn't stop the game.

[NovU]

Now now let's not bring flopping bigs of Miami into this thread. No reasons to waste valuable time of our short lifespan on hating people. Thanks you for your cooperation and now allow me to go back to being alone, grieving the loss today.

[jettdaking!]

they should pretty much stop flopping and make referees review in-game collisions. it really pisses people off seeing someone flop act like he got shot in the chest

[SkyLine03LT]

It's hard for the refs to tell if a player flops or not in real time. Sometimes it's hard to tell on the replay. I don't like the idea of player getting fined/suspended/whatever if the refs (or the office) thinks they flopped even though they didn't.

[Patr1ck]

They could adopt a challenge system like tennis.

[Andrew]

I wouldn't be so much in favour of video reviews during the game, as it'd slow it down way too much.

Agreed, I could see that getting out of hand. I think you could perhaps limit those reviews to the final two minutes of the game or as Pat suggested, implement a challenge system similar to the one used in tennis. That way you're not stopping the game every five plays or so to review a charge/blocking call, but the option is there to go to the replay and make sure the call is right in crunch time; alternatively, coaches would have to use their challenges sparingly, else live with a questionable call down the stretch.

[Andrew]

Stern pleased with NBA season but still tweaking

Commissioner David Stern believes the NBA is need of some tweaking even after following the black eye of the lockout with a better-than-expected regular season.

The first forum for change will come next Monday, when the competition committee will discuss ways to try and eliminate flopping for the sake of drawing a foul and to consider whether to expand instant replay.

''Flopping almost doesn't do it justice,'' Stern said Tuesday just prior to the start of the NBA Finals. ''Trickery. Deceit designed to cause the game to be decided other than on its merits. We'll be looking at that.

''We'll be looking at a number of things that make it easier for us to say to our fans what we all know to be true: our referees want to get everything right.''

Glad to see that the idea of doing something about flopping isn't going away.

[Sauru]

i think the best way to handle it is with a tech that does not count towards ejection. after a few in the season (all of which should be reviewed after the game to ensure it was really a flop) start handing out fines. suspsend players. i want this thing gone. some games i cant stand to watch cause of the players (looking at you dwade) throwing them selves all over the court. the problem is the flop has become so good that every single team does it now. i truely believe they teach it during practice sessions now.

now beyond the refs power i would like to see fines handed out for flops the refs missed or got wrong. i am sure none of this will pass but man i hope it does. the flop is horrible for basketball.

also while you are at it start calling offensive foul when players jump into the defender. i am sick of seeing players (like pierce who i have to watch do it every game) pump fake, get the guy in the air, then jump into the guy to go to the line. all the "great scorers" in the league do this now. without it you will not be a top 10 scorer

[The X]

I think if offensive players initiate contact (i.e. jump into a defender who is going straight up/arms up) no foul. If offensive player kick out legs (ala Reggie Miller) no foul. If offensive player fakes out defender, then jumps any direction other than directly towards the hoop to initiate contact & get foul (ala Paul Pierce), no foul. If offensive player flails arms/exaggerates contact (ala Dwayne Wade/Blake Griffin), no foul.

So yeah, for offensive flopping, just call no fouls.

Defensively, it's going to be hard to pick up. I like no calls. If there is anything blatant (ala Chris Bosh/Reggie Evans dives) then they should get fined after later NBA review.

No calls are the best way, although I have doubts that three separate NBA officials will be comfortable swallowing their whistles.

[Patr1ck]

I agree with the no calls like I wrote before. I don't think it's out of control so much that players need to be fined, though.

Good point on the referees. They seem to forget to make calls during some physical stretches of play and then call every little ticky tack contact during another stretch.

I'm guessing some courses on recognizing flops are in order for the referees.

[Andrew]

although I have doubts that three separate NBA officials will be comfortable swallowing their whistles.

True, though they still get to make a judgement call and assert control over the game. Perhaps that'll be enough to give them their fix, either that or the inevitable technicals that'll come from some of the no-calls.

I completely agree in regards to offensive fouls. I also still think they need to clarify what a defender needs to do to draw a charge and enforce that rule accordingly. Continuations also need to be more clearly defined because there's definitely inconsistency there as well.

[[Q]]

i don't see a problem with the way it's done now especially tonight when Harden flopped on Lebron and it led to a no-call & dunk for Bosh.

[The X]

i don't see a problem with the way it's done now especially tonight when Harden flopped on Lebron and it led to a no-call & dunk for Bosh.

That only happened because refs call the game differently for stars. If Lebron had flopped on Harden, the call would've been made.

[Sauru]

like i said before, wade only has a ring cause he learned how to flop very early in his career. the fact that you can flop your way to a title is horrible. this is nothing new and something that should have been solved years ago. the games become almost unwatchable for me at times because of how much flopping is going on. the refs react to the players and make the calls based on that. guy snaps his neck back the refs blow the whistle like harden vs the spurs. guy ran into a pick and snapped his neck back like someone just shot him in the face. offensive foul thunder ball

[Andrew]

i don't see a problem with the way it's done now especially tonight when Harden flopped on Lebron and it led to a no-call & dunk for Bosh.

Consistency is the main problem; there were flops on both sides that led to charging calls in the very same game. The criteria for drawing a charge is too loosely defined and currently still favours floppers.