The Annual Laker Subplot - "Shaq can do no wrong"

[Andrew]

Seems every year for the past couple of years, there's been a subplot to the Lakers' season. Shaq/Kobe feud, mid-season boredom leading to uncharacteristic losing streaks, injuries etc. Laker fans downplay them, Laker haters milk them for all their worth, and those of us in the middle take a mild interest. Here's the latest:

Lakers respond to O'Neal's verbal attacks

For those who don't want to read the whole thing: Basically, some Lakers players have not taken kindly to Shaq's latest remarks which place the blame squarely on the role players.

After the Lakers' 106-102 loss at Golden State on Tuesday, O'Neal told reporters, "Talk to the (expletives) that ain't doing nothing. Don't talk to me."

So what? Why even mention it? Every year the Lakers have a couple of internal disputes and they're three-time defending champions. So far, this small issues haven't done much to destroy team chemistry.

The reason I mention it is simply for the discussion of Shaq's attitude. Shaq has said many times before, both jokingly and seriously, that he's a near-unstoppable force in the paint. He can back that up with game tapes and statistics. But it seems that he's never at fault when the Lakers lose, always the one to credit when they win. Yes, that's not entirely correct. Shaq has often given credit when credit is due. But I think Derek Fisher put it best:

"He's our leader, he can have his opinion. But he has to be careful not to pass the blame on other guys. When you struggle, that's when you really need to stick together."

Of course Shaq's going to be frustrated. It's a different situation than the past few years - they have a losing record, are in a Western Conference that boasts greatly improved rivals (albeit rivals who are yet to dethrone LA). For the first time in the last three seasons, they are having to play catchup. Consider also that the Warriors are one of the bottom teams in the league who should not be expected pull out a win over an experienced, mentally tough and talented Lakers team.

Shaq had an excellent performance against the Warriors - 36 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks, and more than half his free throw attempts were successful. Kobe, Fisher and Horry had decent to good outings. In that game, everyone else on the Lakers that played were pretty much non-factors. Still, the Lakers lost 106-102, and Shaq missed 5 field goals and 6 free throws - that's a potential 16 points that did not make the Lakers' total. Kobe missed 6 field goals and a free throw - 13 points that were not scored. You could attribute that final four point deficit to any player who attempted and missed a field goal.

As Brian Shaq said, "[the Lakers] lose as a team". It's nothing to get excited about - Shaq's return has revitalised the Lakers and they're getting back to .500. Chances are come June, this is going to be 2003's championship subplot. But it will be interesting to see how Shaq will respond if the blame for a game's outcome is placed on his shoulders because of his play.

[:digerati:]

I don't see where Shaq is wrong.

As I've explained countless times, if Shaq's teammates are nulified, he may get all the points he can.

Last night the Hornets somewhat ran the Triangle Defense™, it wasn't the exact thing, but it was similar. End result? Lackers shot 43.6% from the field, remove Shaq, they shot 37.7% (and mustered just 54pts, that's 41.1% if you drop the threes). They shot only 54.5% from the FT line, again, remove Shaq, that drops to 50%. Throw in Brian Shaw being the only one to make a three (two infact, his teammates combined to miss three) and you have a lesson in the real reason I believe the Lackers won't win this year. Their depth is gone. They had it in 2000 and steamrolled everyone, it was still somewhat there in 2001, but last year the lack of depth did get them into trouble at times. This year, they have what appears to be even less due to poor play of the team.

Let's do what you did Andrew, if Shaq makes those 6 shots he missed and 4 FT's. That's 18pts, Lackers win by 2. But...what about the rest of the team? Kobe, Fisher and Fox combined to miss 26 shots (including 4 threes) and 3FT's. That's 59 points (22 for Kobe and Fisher, 15 for Fox). Lackers win by 43. The rest of the team made only 9 FGs, out of 21 (42.9% for those scoring at home). The other person you mentioned, Horry, played 26 minutes, but took only 2 shots (one three) and 2FTA...he made one free throw and scored 1pt.

The Lackers didn't play much D either, Hornets shot 47%, scored 98pts and won by 16, despite bricking 14 of their 18 threes (drop the threes? FG% jumps to 53.8%).
C- 22pts (52.6%)
PF- 16pts (57%)
SF- 21pts (52.9%)
SG- 21pts (45%, remove the 2/7 three bombing, that jumps to 53.8%)
PG- 18pts (35%, remove the 1/8 three bombing, that jumps to 50%)
We can ignore the Center spot since Shaq can't play real Defense and since he did outscore the Hornets there. Walker and Horry did very well shutting down those offensive powerhouses that are P.J. Brown and George Lynch. Fox and George seemed incapable of stopping Mashburn. Kobe couldn't stop the much smaller Alexander and Wesley from besting him by 5. Don't ignore that Alexander scored 2 less points in 17 fewer minutes than Kobe or shot as good from the field as the Lackers did from the line. Baron Davis played the ENTIRE game, yet nobody tried to take advantage and wear down a recovering from injury body.

To be honest, I haven't looked at the rest of the Lackers losses, but I suspect they follow similar themes to this one. Shaq doesn't get support, Lackers don't play their team defense.

Then again, there was that fellow who mused that perhaps the Lackers were thinking about LeBron James?

[Andrew]

Let's do what you did Andrew, if Shaq makes those 6 shots he missed and 4 FT's. That's 18pts, Lackers win by 2. But...what about the rest of the team? Kobe, Fisher and Fox combined to miss 26 shots (including 4 threes) and 3FT's. That's 59 points (22 for Kobe and Fisher, 15 for Fox). Lackers win by 43. The rest of the team made only 9 FGs, out of 21 (42.9% for those scoring at home). The other person you mentioned, Horry, played 26 minutes, but took only 2 shots (one three) and 2FTA...he made one free throw and scored 1pt.

I realise that, which is why I said

Kobe missed 6 field goals and a free throw - 13 points that were not scored. You could attribute that final four point deficit to any player who attempted and missed a field goal.

The point I was trying to make was you could place the blame on anyone who missed a shot, which ultimately leads to a deficit at the end of the game. But you're exactly right about the game against the Hornets, the supporting cast was definitely lacking.

[:digerati:]

Warriors 106 - Lackers 102

Warriors - 49.4% (47.1% without threes)
Lackers - 45.2% (51.9%)
Lackers minus Shaq - 37.5% (42.9%)

Shaq - 5 misses (70.6%)
Lackers without Shaq - 35 misses (37.5%, 42.9% without threes)
Kobe/Fisher/Fox/Horry - 28 misses (39.1%, 44.8%)
Rest of Lackers - 7 misses (30%, 33.3%)

The minutes may not add up to 48 at most positions because they played multiple positions and because I left out non-scorers.
C- 8pts (Dampier/Foyle)
PF- 12pts (Fortson/Murphy)
SF- 21pts (Jamison/Mills)
SG- 26pts (Richardson)
PG- 39pts (Arenas/Boykins)

Now all players are included, not just those that scored.
C- 37.5%
PF- 54.5%
SF- 34.8% (42.1% without threes)
SG- 58.8% (36.4%)
PG- 58.3% (57.1%)

Now, to be fair, I will include the Jazz game, these numbers will be put in parenthesis in the totals because only Rick Carlisie complains when you lose.

Lackers 110 - Jazz 101

Jazz - 42.9% (38.8%)
Lackers - 50.6% (54.5%)
Lackers minus Shaq - 45.2% (48.9%)

Shaq - 6 misses (68.4%)
Lackers without Shaq - 34 misses (45.2%, 48.9%)
Kobe/Fisher/Fox/Horry - 22 misses (48.8%, 52.9%)
Rest of Lackers - 12 misses (36.8%, 38.5%)

Again, there are minute errors when adding totals. Scott Padgett has been added to Centers to boost total.

C- 13pts (Amaechi/Collins/Padgett)
PF- 11pts (Malone)
SF- 30pts (Kirilenko)
SG- 26pts (Harpring/Cheaney)
PG- 21pts (Stockton/Jackson/Stevenson - 2 min)

C- 30.8%
PF- 18.8%
SF- 66.7% (50%)
SG- 52.4% (55%)
PG- 46.7% (42.9%)

Do remember that Stockton (shot 4/10) and Jackson (1/3) are pass-first guards and thus only shoot as a last resort. Also take into account, Fishers age advantage and Shaw's near half a foot and 20lb size advantage.

Totals
Opp. Avg PPG In Losses (with Jazz game)
C- 15 (14.3)
PF- 14 (13)
SF- 21 (24)
SG- 23.5 (24.3)
PG- 28.5 (26)
Total: 102 (101.7)

Lackers:
C- 32 (32)
PF- 12.5 (12)
SF- 14.5 (14.7)
SG- 17.5 (21)
PG- 15.5 (18.3)
Total: 92 (98)

Opp. Avg FG/FG-3s In Losses (with Jazz game)
C- 48.1%/50.0% (42.5%/43.6%)
PF- 55.6%/52.9% (38.2%/36.4%)
SF- 42.5%/48.6% (48.1%/48.8%)
SG- 51.4%/45.8% (51.7%/50.0%)
PG- 47.7%/54.5% (47.5%/51.1%)
Totals: 48.2%/50.4% (46.5%/46.6%)

Lackers Avg FG/FG-3s In Losses (with Jazz game)
C- 67.6% (67.9%)
PF- 36.8%/40% (35.5%/40%)
SF- 40%/57.9% (37.5%/48.3%)
SG- 41.4%/39.3% (45.8%/44.4%)
PG- 30.6%/26.1% (40.4%/42.9%)
Totals: 43.9%/48.7% (46.6%/51.6%)
Shaq - 17 misses (67.6% (67.9%))
Lackers Minus Shaq - 73 misses (107 misses) (37.6%/41.9% (40.2%/45%))
Kobe/Horry/Fox/Fisher - 56 misses (78 misses) (36.4%/40.9% (40.5%/45%))
Rest Of Lackers - 17 misses (29 misses) (39.6%/43.8% (41.4%/47.4%))

Now, from all this crazy data, we can see that Shaq is the only Lacker outplaying his opponents. The rest of the Lackers are playing worse than their counterparts on opposing teams. Thus, why the Lackers are losing and why Shaq is correctly placing the blame on others.

[Andrew]

Statistically, you are 100% correct. But what if Shaq was to make a critical error with the game hanging in the balance, and as a result of his mistake the Lakers lost the game? No matter how well he played beforehand, that final error that lost the game would surely place some of the blame on his shoulders. Sure, he could score 40 points, grab 20 rebounds, block 10 shots and hit all of his free throws in 40 minutes, then miss a shot or commit a turnover in the final 10 seconds that leads to a loss.

Sure, if his teammates were playing up to standard, it would not come down to such a situation, and they could not be absolved of the blame for the loss. But he would still have contributed to the loss with his error. And beyond that, it's a team game, and you win and lose as a team. The Lakers don't need to be arguing amongst themselves or pointing fingers or trying to shift the blame. They just need to get back into regular form and bounce back from the slow start.

[:digerati:]

Shaq's teammates haven't given him the chance to do that.

If Shaq got 40/20/10 the only reason the Lackers would be in a close situation would be on the failings of his teammates.

You can say all you want about how they shouldn't be arguing and point fingers but, they can't get back into "regular form" because of the things they are arguing about. Shaq's teammates aren't playing up to par and he has to point the finger at them so they know they are failing him and the team.

Shaq's doing his job the way he's done it for three years. His teammates aren't. Kobe's bricking away at 41.4% while allowing opposing SG's to shoot 51.4%, yeah, he sure can shut down anyone at will. Fisher and Shaw are incompetant and Shaw's only made one-non-three pointer offensively in the last three games. They should play Pargo there instead of those two. The Lackers aren't losing because of the bickering, they're losing because the team sans-Shaq is stinking up the joint. Until the team stops playing so poor, they're to blame.

I find it ironic that Derek Fisher said:

"He's our leader, he can have his opinion. But he has to be careful not to pass the blame on other guys. When you struggle, that's when you really need to stick together."

Considering he's the one that's stinking it up the most.

[scubilete]

I understand what you're saying Andrew

then miss a shot or commit a turnover in the final 10 seconds that leads to a loss

You know, that's why the Lakers hired Jackson, cause that was the case few years ago or in the first Lakers championship of these 3 cause every team would come to foul Shaq and he of course would miss one out of 2, sometimes he was missing both of them, that was annoying. Watching him do that, he has improved that area so others can't blame him about losing. Now he has the right to point everyone cause he's that he's doing his job, but I bet if he knew he wasn't doing his job, he wouldn't blame or point anyone. All I see there is that he has asked for some support of his teammates, he knows everyone has to do something useful to get the win and he's trying to encourage them to show him that they can do it. The Lakers need a 3rd man to step up, not saying Kobe & Shaq is not enough, but surely they don't have a good game everyday, if you see Kobe scored 28 & Shaq scored 30 or 28 as well, with a good percentage of shooting, you sure can say they won, cause they both had a good game, but if one of them didn't just have his night, then someone has to come with those missing points and right now nobody in the Lakers want to take that charge. I do believe Shaq was angry knowing he had a good game, but I do think he could have been doing that to make the statement that other guys have to start playing better, this is a team not just him or Kobe.

[bishibashiboy]

If Shaq got 40/20/10 the only reason the Lackers would be in a close situation would be on the failings of his teammates.

just because a guy gets tons of stats it doesn't guarantee a win..and it doesn't mean he's not responsible for a loss at all..

You can say all you want about how they shouldn't be arguing and point fingers but, they can't get back into "regular form" because of the things they are arguing about. Shaq's teammates aren't playing up to par and he has to point the finger at them so they know they are failing him and the team.

true they are not playing up to par defensively..but neither is shaq.
offensively..their output is still almost the same.

Shaq's doing his job the way he's done it for three years. His teammates aren't. Kobe's bricking away at 41.4% while allowing opposing SG's to shoot 51.4%, yeah, he sure can shut down anyone at will.

you can't compare kobe's shooting percentage with last year because he had to take a lot more shots under duress at the start of the season..besides..as that punk Iverson shows..you can shoot a garbage percentage and still get the job done. I agree his D is totally lacking this year..but then again the rest of the team's is too..team D is more important than what an individual can do.

Fisher and Shaw are incompetant and Shaw's only made one-non-three pointer offensively in the last three games. They should play Pargo there instead of those two. The Lackers aren't losing because of the bickering, they're losing because the team sans-Shaq is stinking up the joint. Until the team stops playing so poor, they're to blame.

i don't think they're incompetent..but they're definitely not shooting it as well..although brian shaw seems to be hitting big shots from time to time still..fisher on the other hand is in a loong slump.

I find it ironic that Derek Fisher said:
"He's our leader, he can have his opinion. But he has to be careful not to pass the blame on other guys. When you struggle, that's when you really need to stick together."
Considering he's the one that's stinking it up the most.

why is that ironic?..sure he's not playing well..but as a leader Shaq should not be lashing out at them in public..that doesn't solve anything..that just creates more animosity amongst themselves..so i think Fish is right..
the person who was most wrong was Shaq in assuming that he could jump right back into the team after his super late surgery and assume he can lead them to victory..that's not how it works..and i think he's frustrated that his stupidity is showing now..and he's deverting attention away from his late surgery by blaming his players for not playing well.

[:digerati:]

just because a guy gets tons of stats it doesn't guarantee a win..and it doesn't mean he's not responsible for a loss at all..

But. If he's playing that and his teammates are playing like they should, they shouldn't be losing.

true they are not playing up to par defensively..but neither is shaq.
offensively..their output is still almost the same.

Not in that Hornets game it wasn't. Shaq is playing the same defensively as he always does.

you can't compare kobe's shooting percentage with last year because he had to take a lot more shots under duress at the start of the season

But he should be playing this stellar defense he supposidly does to make up for it.

I agree his D is totally lacking this year..but then again the rest of the team's is too..team D is more important than what an individual can do.

But they aren't even playing good individual defense.

i don't think they're incompetent..but they're definitely not shooting it as well..although brian shaw seems to be hitting big shots from time to time still..fisher on the other hand is in a loong slump.

It's not just the shooting, it's the defense.

why is that ironic?

Because Fisher is the one stinking it up the most.

sure he's not playing well..but as a leader Shaq should not be lashing out at them in public..that doesn't solve anything..that just creates more animosity amongst themselves..so i think Fish is right..

He wasn't lashing out at them in public, he was telling reporters to talk to the people that failed the team because he had nothing to say. And if Shaq praised them or ignored the issue it would continue to hurt the team.

the person who was most wrong was Shaq in assuming that he could jump right back into the team after his super late surgery and assume he can lead them to victory

So, Shaq's wrong, but his teammates aren't. For the same thing. Double standard?

that's not how it works..and i think he's frustrated that his stupidity is showing now..and he's deverting attention away from his late surgery by blaming his players for not playing well.

Stupidity? His team is winning more since he came back. He's the one doing it all and the team is playing very bad. Shaq didn't cause the blame, he just pointed it out.

[air gordon]

i find all this laker drama amusing. but in the end, it was the lakers who had the last laugh last season.

if the lakers are still struggling by mid-season, i think the team will be burned out just to make the playoffs. having the one of the oldest (i believe 3rd, i could be wrong) lineups in the league will hurt this lakers team.

[scubilete]

i think he's frustrated that his stupidity is showing now

in what ways is Shaq stupid?, he's the biggest scoring machine ever since Chamberlain or Jabbar, cause he's the only one who knows well how to use his body to get the basket, that's not stupid, that's knowing how to use the brain I believe. Used to hate him in Orlando bcause the way he was embarrasing everyone else, but then he's with the Lakers and I have to admit it, I love the way he plays, lol.

[bishibashiboy]

the only reason i said shaq was stupid is because of his delayed surgery..honestly...what is a GOOD reason for him not having surgery until sept 11???...so he could get some stupid police training crap?...as far as his foot is concerned, he could have gotten doctor's opinions within a week..much less 3 months..
ill admit..even if he had surgery the lakers might still be in trouble..but i doubt they would have started out 2-9 or whatever they were...they've been playing .500 ball since he came back..at the very least the lakers would be there right now instead of 6 games under .500.

oh and another reason i said he's stupid is because off the court he really IS stupid..he may have a high bball IQ..but anybody that says this on Jay Leno has to be a retard: "I'm tough to figure out like the Pythagorean theorum...*shrug* i don't know what that is"