10 for 2009-10: Team Killers

[benji]

10 for 2009-10: Team Killers

I originally was going to do point guards first, but since there was some interest in this it will go first. A team killer is someone who uses a ton of possessions but has no business doing so. The great ones historically include Antoine Walker and Darrell Griffith. Here's this season contenders.

WIRB is Wins If Rasual Butler, one of the most statistically average players last season. We're just straight replacing their minutes last season with Butler's. WILB is Wins if LeBron James, because well, he's LeBron. You should already know the rest.

1. Baron Davis
2. Sebastian Telfair
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Yi Jianlian
5. Mike James
6. Marquis Daniels
7. Al Thornton
8. Rashad McCants
9. Spencer Hawes
10. Jason Kapono

I'll be editing this post to include the whole article later. Need to change the markup on the tables.

Comment, post your own guys/list, make irrational statements based on your emotions, etc. You guys know how to do it.

[Lamrock]

Surprised to see Hawes and Kapono on the list. I always assumed Kapono's three-point shooting ability made him an efficient player, but his career's been going downhill since he landed in Toronto. Hawes went to UW so I guess I'm a homer in that case.

[Martti.]

Also surprised to see Hawes. Very interesting read, props man!

[Andrew]

Hawes is probably the biggest surprise for me but looking at the numbers I can't disagree.

[shadowgrin]

I'm surprised Mike James doesn't have a higher spot.

[J@3]

Personally I'd have Westbrook and Yi above Telfair for three (sets of) reasons/variables:

1: Westbrook and Yi both started more games, thus giving them a bigger chance to kill their teams. Also their teams... especially in Westbrook's case, are more reliant upon them when it comes to the future of the basketball club. No one's ever going to make Telfair their long term starting PG, but Westbrook may be.

2: Telfair backing up Davis now means that he is only the secondary team killer on his own team. It's like if someone murders a prostitute then you kick her in the ribs once she's dead. Does it do damage? Yeah, but does it matter? No, the real damage has already been done.

3: The Thunder picked Westbrook 4th in a draft where they could have taken the likes of Kevin Love, Eric Gordon or Brook Lopez. Similarly, Yi was traded for Richard Jefferson who while not the most efficient player in the league is definitely not going to show up on any team killers list. Telfair on the other hand has been a makeweight and cap filler for his whole career.

[benji]

I don't necessarily disagree with a number of your points so:

1. Yes, but Telfair played almost 50% more minutes than Yi. So he had 50% more chance to kill them. I was trying to look at how much damage they did over the course of the season. They both actually were at 26mpg to before the break after that it becomes 31mpg for Telfair and 19mpg for Yi. Don't disagree with the future reliance but:

2. I was basing it on last year, but yeah, Telfair won't kill as much this year, but the potential of him and Davis being the Clippers point guard rotation has to get you excited.

I was hoping people could find some more guys, instead of jerking over Hawes or quibbling too much with the order. (I basically just ordered it by the Butler/LeBron change), I probably shouldn't have numbered it as I agree it's not really clear cut. (Outside of Davis being number one easily.) I think there's a better case to be made for replacing some players over moving them around.

[J@3]

Raymond Felton:
Started 81 games, averaged 37.6 minutes per game.

USG%: 21.9
TS%: .483
eFG: .435
TO%: 15.9
ORtg: 101
WS: 4.1

PER 36: 13.6/3.6/6.5/1.5 ... even though I understand FG% is relatively useless when you have eFG/TS, his FG% was .408. Started more games and played more minutes than everyone on your list,

Rodney Stuckey
Started 65 games, averaged 31.9 minutes per game.

USG%: 23.0
TS%: .508
eFG: .452
TO%: 14.3
ORtg: 104
WS: 3.6

PER 36: 15.1/3.9/5.5/1.2 ... I know he is a personal favourite of yours. Can't shoot, doesn't really dish out many assists and is the future of the Pistons at PG. Might be on the fringes of maybe a top 15 moreso than top 10 though.

Edit: Removed Quis, I did read the article despite this show of stupidity.

[Alejandrov011]

I'm surprised Mike James doesn't have a higher spot.

Me too, by the way... how many assists he averages

[jettdaking!]

the team killer of all time must be Keith van Horn

[Lamrock]

How so? He was a perennially solid player.

[jettdaking!]

i was talking about the time he got signed to NJ for a 1-year $11 mil contract but almost never played a game in that particular season. his other years, (Milwaukee, etc.) those were solid.

[benji]

When did he sign a one year $11 million contract with New Jersey?

[jettdaking!]

late in his career (and i'm not sure if it's $11 mil, but it was a great deal of money)

[benji]

You mean the $4.3 million that NJ agreed to pay him to not play in order to make the Kidd trade work after Devean George blocked it?

How did he kill the team?

[jettdaking!]

no. that time there was no Keith van Horn

[benji]

What?

[Alejandrov011]

4.3 Million is a lot of money compared to 11 Million

[NovU]

That's some good stuff. I expected Yi to be first on your list, but I can see why he isn't as you explained already. I am surprised to see Baron on top as I like watching him play. I guess I didn't realize how bad he played last year. Hope to see him play better next season though.