TOP 10 Greatest of All Time.

[big-shot-ROB]

This has been a topic of conflict since LeBron has achieved success. I want to hear what the NLSC members think about this, especially the old ones who probably have seen the 70's. I'm going to start with mine:

For pure talent:

- Michael Jordan
- LeBron James
- Hakeem Olajuwon
- Magic Johnson
- Shaquille O'Neal
- Larry Bird
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar
- Kobe Bryant
- Wilt Chamberlain
- Doctor J

Everyone from 5 to 10 can be exchanged, it is difficult to compare talent from different eras and different positions.


Talent + Succes + Career

- Michael Jordan
- Magic Johson
- Bill Russell (11 championships and leadership, something Wilt never had.)
- Tim Duncan (He showed us basketball is a team sport.)
- Kobe Bryant (5 championships and the icon of the NBA during the 00's decade.)
- Larry Bird
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar
- Saquille O'Neal
- Lebron James
- Wilt Chimberlain

[Jeffx]

Wilt
Jordan
Russell
Oscar
Kareem
Magic
Hakeem
Bird
West
Duncan


You can't have an NBA top 10 list and not include The Big O and Mr. Clutch.

[Kevin]

1.) Michael Jordan
2.) Kobe Bryant
3.) Bill Russell
4.) Magic Johnson
5.) Larry Bird
6.) LeBron James
7.) Oscar Robertson
8.) Shaquille O'Neal
9.) Wilt Chamberlain
10.) David Robinson
11.) Tim Duncan
12.) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
13.) Reggie Miller
14.) Julius Erving
15.) Hakeem Olajuwon

[Mandich]

Anyone who puts Kobe at No.2 should be banned for a day.

[Kevin]

Anyone who puts Kobe at No.2 should be banned for a day.

Too bad you don't moderate the forums.

[Jackal]

Also Duncan behind Robinson? Robinson dominated in the regular season but had his troubles in the playoffs. That's crazy. Reggie over the Dream? Kobe that high up? Stop it man, you're making Laker fans look like Heat fans.
Edit: Just saw you're Canadian. Carry on.

I'd probably go with Jeff's list, Oscar was Lebron before Lebron was Lebron and Jeff is old as balls so I'm guessing he watched him play to know what he's talking about.

As a huge Shaq fan it pisses me off how good he could have been if he had any sort of work ethic.

[Mandich]

As a huge Shaq fan it pisses me off how good he could have been if he had any sort of work ethic.

He wanted to be a superstar that exceeds just basketball. He clearly managed that. He still probably is the best center of the three-point era.

[Jeffx]

Also Duncan behind Robinson? Robinson dominated in the regular season but had his troubles in the playoffs. That's crazy. Reggie over the Dream? Kobe that high up? Stop it man, you're making Laker fans look like Heat fans.
Edit: Just saw your Canadian. Carry on.

I'd probably go with Jeff's list, Oscar was Lebron before Lebron was Lebron and Jeff is old as balls so I'm guessing he watched him play to know what he's talking about.

As a huge Shaq fan it pisses me off how good he could have been if he had any sort of work ethic.

You nailed it - Lebron is a bigger combo version of Oscar & Magic. Now I saw The Big O when he played with Milwaukee. My dad saw him in his prime, and he swears Oscar was the greatest ALL-AROUND baller of all time.

The way you feel about Shaq I feel about Rasheed Wallace. But Shaq is in my next ten greatest.

[shadowgrin]

As a huge Shaq fan it pisses me off how good he could have been if he had any sort of work ethic.

The way you feel about Shaq I feel about Rasheed Wallace. But Shaq is in my next ten greatest.

Derrick Coleman?

[Jeffx]

As a huge Shaq fan it pisses me off how good he could have been if he had any sort of work ethic.

The way you feel about Shaq I feel about Rasheed Wallace. But Shaq is in my next ten greatest.

Derrick Coleman?

He could have been as great as Karl Malone, but didn't have the Mailman's work ethic.

[Moz]

As a huge Shaq fan it pisses me off how good he could have been if he had any sort of work ethic.

He doesn't need that though with the amount of talent surrounding him in his prime years beside the fact that he's a once in a lifetime specimen...

He still probably is the best center of the three-point era.

[Jackal]

What kind of logic is that? Kobe had the same amount of talent around him but didn't go all "I got injured on company time, I'll heal on company time" stupid.

It's not about whether he needed to or didn't need to.

[NovU]

We've been through this topic before and I must say I'm confident that:

1) Kobe isn't top 10, try top 30.

2) Robinson is vastly underrated. His best teammate prior to Duncan era was Dennis Rodman, but that was for half season only. And he was still the best player in his first championship with Duncan. We've been through a discussion how David Robinson is better than Olajuwon outside of couple instances.

3) Sad to say this but LBJ is within MJ's realm in terms of individual excellence. Wilt was better than two of them combined though.

4) Russell <<< Wilt

[big-shot-ROB]

We've been through this topic before and I must say I'm confident that:

1) Kobe isn't top 10, try top 30.

2) Robinson is vastly underrated. His best teammate prior to Duncan era was Dennis Rodman, but that was for half season only. And he was still the best player in his first championship with Duncan. We've been through a discussion how David Robinson is better than Olajuwon outside of couple instances.

3) Sad to say this but LBJ is within MJ's realm in terms of individual excellence. Wilt was better than two of them combined though.

4) Russell <<< Wilt

Wilt didn't have work ethic at all and neither was a leader. Sure Russell was not a monster like Wilt, but he had leadership. He also had a really good team around him, but he was the spark that fired those celtics to win 11 rings. That team had lost at the east division semifinals/finals all the years before he was drafted.

[Mandich]

2) Robinson is vastly underrated. David Robinson is better than Olajuwon o

I can't stress how important this is.

Things Dream fans bring up to the discussion:

His rings, which were asterisksed due to KJ injury problems , bad Knicks offense, and no MJ. His superb defense, which is no better than the one of David Robinson.His superb passing and offense, which is not better than Robinsons.His awards, that were given by the MEDIA.

During their prime, Robinson was the better player. He simply was.

Stop looking at media given awards and start checking stats, people.

	P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48	BPM	VORP	TRB%	Years
Shaq	26.6	11.3	3	.581	114	100	29.3	.240	6.6	40.8	17.7	95/96-02/03
Robinson	24.3	11	3.1	.591	118	97	28.1	.263	8.8	50.2	17.2	90/91-96/97
Olajuwon	23.3	10.8	2.9	.562	109	98	25.1	.190	5.8	38.7	16.8	90/91-96/97

Granted, Robinsons BPM and VORP are inflated due to his bad teammates, but that just makes his other stats even more impressive. You can tweak with Hakeems prime to maybe a year or two back where his teams didn't make it out of the first round and where he did indeed rebounds and defend at a higher level, but that won't change much. He'll stay the same in pretty much every other category, and won't make that big of a push in defense in rebounding to make a significant difference.

[NovU]

Wilt didn't have work ethic at all and neither was a leader. Sure Russell was not a monster like Wilt, but he had leadership. He also had a really good team around him, but he was the spark that fired those celtics to win 11 rings. That team had lost at the east division semifinals/finals all the years before he was drafted.

It's all myth, leadership, work ethic, willingness to win. Kobe is a horrendously selfish leader and a bad teammate but has 5 rings. LBJ is a good teammate but a dumb leader but has 2 rings. Had they had Obama's leadership how much difference would it make? Is it because of lack of work ethic and willingness to win that KD isn't winning like LBJ or Kobe? We have been through this meaningless talk. It's all narratives that media sells all the time because nobody cares to look into it and masses will absorb it as fact anyway.

Russel's intangibles were great no doubt but he had lots of hall of fame bound team-mates on a dynasty team run by the best coach/gm of his era running a system he fit into perfectly

ultimately unless you award points for pixie dust intangibles this is a joke

[air gordon]

I can't stress how important this is.

Things Dream fans bring up to the discussion:

His rings, which were asterisksed due to KJ injury problems , bad Knicks offense, and no MJ. His superb defense, which is no better than the one of David Robinson.His superb passing and offense, which is not better than Robinsons.His awards, that were given by the MEDIA.

During their prime, Robinson was the better player.

I think a lot people have ingrained in their memory Hakeem outplaying Robinson in the conference finals. Or at least I do. The admiral had a solid game mixed in there but it was the Dream who came up big in the clinchers.

[atlwarrior]

Dream has to be the most skilled Center I've ever seen play the game. The guy had so many moves he could beat you with and could put the ball on the floor. Kareem is my second favorite C with that unstoppable sky hook.

[Sauru]

As a huge Shaq fan it pisses me off how good he could have been if he had any sort of work ethic.

he should be considered the second best ever and in the discussion for first if only he had any sort of work ethic. being a celtic fan i thank him for not having one. i just wish he would stop trying to brag about everything whenever anyone gives him a mic