LeBron James to win fourth MVP Award

[benji]

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/st ... mvp-fourth

MIAMI -- The worst-kept secret among NBA award recipients will be formally revealed Sunday when Miami Heat star LeBron James is named Most Valuable Player for the fourth time, league sources confirmed Friday.

James has been voted MVP for the second straight season and for the fourth time in the past five years. He'll join Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Wilt Chamberlain with at least four MVP awards.

...

Abdul-Jabbar leads all players as a six-time MVP, and Russell is the only other to win the award four times in five years.

James, 28, will be the youngest in NBA history to hoist his fourth trophy, although Abdul-Jabbar won five by the age of 30.

Also, he must read the NLSC:

"My free throw shooting," James said Friday, referring to his 75.3 percent success rate. "I want to -- I need to shoot in the 80s. That's my next goal. And then, just continue to do what I've been doing the last couple of years. But my free throw shooting is what I really want to zone in on."

[NovU]

Wade got snubbed once again but whatever.

Also, he must read the NLSC:

Who doesn't.

[shadowgrin]

Good thing LeBron is taller than 6'2 or else he won't even be in the NBA.

[Axel The Great]

Should have been James Harden. Playoffs, no, 30+ wins, would not have been possible without him.

[[Q]]

the big question is: will it be unanimous? (i think it should be. hell he should've won dpoy too)

ft shooting is the last "hole" in his game. its the thing that he's "worst" at and still shoots 75%. if he shoots 80+ he cements himself the best all-around player ever, if you dont already think that

[SoF'nAwesome]

"LeBron James to win the first unanimous MVP award in NBA history" is what this thread should have been named. But meh, it's benji so I'm not not surprised.

We are all witness, yes we are.

And fuck it, even if he is ft shooting is 60%, who cares. He is the G.O.A.T even without that.

Should have been James Harden.

As in he should have won the MVP award this season beating LeBron?

[NovU]

God damn it benji. What did I tell you about drinking and posting? PUI is just as dangerous as DUI.

[Stress Fracture]

Should have been James Harden.

As in he should have won the MVP award this season beating LeBron?

Where would the Rockets be without Harden?

Remove LeBron from the Heat's lineup and still they can whip the other teams' asses.

You bandwagoners don't analyze, do you?

[stereoxide]

Most Valuable Player must be renamed to Best Player of the Year to justify Lebron winning the award.

[NovU]

Most valuable to the team or league? Either way, LBJ earned it(has a strong case in all regards). I wouldn't have minded if CP3 or KD won it. These three separated themselves from rest of the pack.

Harden's best years are ahead of him. Be patient, Rockets fans.

[Stress Fracture]

Most valuable to the team or league? Either way, LBJ earned it(has a strong case in all regards). I wouldn't have minded if CP3 or KD won it. These three separated themselves from rest of the pack.

Harden's best years are ahead of him. Be patient, Rockets fans.

We know it. We just want for some considerations. Unlike those "real" fans out there.

[Martti.]

I don't think it will be unanimous, pretty sure CP3, Melo, Duncan or Durant will get some first place votes.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Where would the Rockets be without Harden?

Remove LeBron from the Heat's lineup and still they can whip the other teams' asses.

You bandwagoners don't analyze, do you?

...We know it. We just want for some considerations. Unlike those "real" fans out there.

You can't argue with ignorance, that's what I'm learning here in every post with you through analyzing. Who cares where the Rockets would have been without Harden? It's not like Harden took his team all the way to the 1st seed laughing at Jordan, breaking all records possible in the way. They barely made it to the playoffs. And similar case can be made for Kobe as well who was the only reason Lakers made it to the playoffs. 'cause I think that without Kobe or Harden, Lakers and Rockets are pretty much the same. As we are talking shooters, do remember that Harden still comes on number 3 on that list behind of Kobe & DWade. And what's that shit "remove LeBron from Heat and they will still win"? How does that come into the MVP discussion?

"Considerations", you mean sympathy? The only label that can be put on Harden is "Team MVP". To say that he is to be awarded the MVP while LeBron is like "hats off nigga for bringing up HOU" is just plain dumb shit.

I don't have anything against Harden or HOU. Harden really stepped up his game this season but be realistic. It's the first unanimous(yes, it is) MVP we are talking about here, being considered the greatest by A LOT and it's only his 3rd season at the Heat.

And maybe add some new vocabulary the next time? I'm getting a bit annoyed of that "bandwagoner" shit, anus taster.

[Axel The Great]

Who cares where the Rockets would have been without Harden?

I do.

It's not like Harden took his team all the way to the 1st seed laughing at Jordan, breaking all records possible in the way.

Is it really necessary to do that to be considered MVP?

They barely made it to the playoffs.

The Lakers "barely" made it to the playoffs. The Jazz "barely" missed the playoffs. The Rockets had a playoff seed clinched with about four or five games remaining in the regular season.

And similar case can be made for Kobe as well who was the only reason Lakers made it to the playoffs. 'cause I think that without Kobe or Harden, Lakers and Rockets are pretty much the same.

No they're not. Didn't you see the Lakers get butt-raped by the Spurs? With Kobe, I'm sure they take a game or two. Without Harden, who's the go-to guy? Lin? Parsons? Asik? The former two may be able to get the job done, but they aren't near as consistent as Harden. Also, that statement is contradictory. If Kobe is the only reason the Lakers made the playoffs, how can they still be the same without him?

As we are talking shooters, do remember that Harden still comes on number 3 on that list behind of Kobe & DWade. And what's that shit "remove LeBron from Heat and they will still win"? How does that come into the MVP discussion?

That factors into the discussion because if you remove LeBron or Harden from their respective teams, Miami is still a 50+ win team while Houston doesn't even smell playoffs. Therefore, we're speaking in "added wins" to approximate the "value" both have to their respective teams. The added wins may be almost the same, but Harden raises Houston from irrelevant team to perennial playoff team. That counts as valuable in my book.

Really, this debate is just about defining what "Most Valuable" means. It's a topic that's been discussed numerous times, so it's pretty much like beating a dead horse. I'm not going to debate that Harden should be MVP over LeBron, because arguments are heavily in LeBron's favor, but my first comment was simply just a sarcastic, biased Rockets fan remark which shows my praising of the Beard.

[benji]

The added wins may be almost the same, but Harden raises Houston from irrelevant team to perennial playoff team.

Not yet.

If you swap Harden and LeBron, which team gets better, Miami or Houston?

Let's also keep in mind that they added not just Harden but Asik, Lin, Delfino, Beverley, and practically added Greg Smith. Also got 1000+ more and much better minutes out of Parsons and Morris. In other words they basically added 7.5 of their top nine players this season. Next on the list is Toney Douglas, so 8.5 of top ten. It's not like they added Harden to a 25 win team and won 20-25 more games, they added Harden and 7 other players to a 42 win team and made it a 50 win team.

[SoF'nAwesome]

I do.

That part was not meant to be taken literally. Of course at least the people of Houston care.

Is it really necessary to do that to be considered MVP?

You can't really say what's "necessary" to be MVP. You just be it. Also, in most cases the MVP is at least breaking and making some new records on the way.

No they're not. Didn't you see the Lakers get butt-raped by the Spurs? With Kobe, I'm sure they take a game or two. Without Harden, who's the go-to guy? Lin? Parsons? Asik? The former two may be able to get the job done, but they aren't near as consistent as Harden. Also, that statement is contradictory. If Kobe is the only reason the Lakers made the playoffs, how can they still be the same without him?

I wasn't talking about Lakers being the same without Kobe. I was talking about Houston and Lakers being the same caliber(teams that will suck) without their stars; Harden and Kobe.

That factors into the discussion because if you remove LeBron or Harden from their respective teams, Miami is still a 50+ win team while Houston doesn't even smell playoffs. Therefore, we're speaking in "added wins" to approximate the "value" both have to their respective teams. The added wins may be almost the same, but Harden raises Houston from irrelevant team to perennial playoff team. That counts as valuable in my book.

And the fact how LeBron made Heat dominate isn't valuable? Harden made Houston irrelevant to perennial while LeBron made Miami elite to the untouchables. Major upgrades both ways. The latter one may have been a fancy one.

Really, this debate is just about defining what "Most Valuable" means. It's a topic that's been discussed numerous times, so it's pretty much like beating a dead horse. I'm not going to debate that Harden should be MVP over LeBron, because arguments are heavily in LeBron's favor, but my first comment was simply just a sarcastic, biased Rockets fan remark which shows my praising of the Beard.

Yes. And Houston should be proud to have a "fearful bearded star" with a bright future. I respect that. But my stance was against the other person in this conversation who told me to "analyze" and was looking for "consideration" which there shouldn't be any because this season was just not that one.

[Stress Fracture]

And maybe add some new vocabulary the next time? I'm getting a bit annoyed of that "bandwagoner" shit, anus taster.

lol pwned.

[shadowgrin]

The bandwagoners in this thread smh.

[SoF'nAwesome]

[_Steve_]

Looking at his (advanced) stats, that MVP trophy for LBJ is well justified.
The question that intrigues me is, could he have put togerher a similar statline with e.g. the Bobcats or Magic and would he have had a significant impact on those teams win totals.
Next question, how would have been Miami's record if they had played in the West. The Heat played a great season but they also had it easier as teams in the West...

[Martti.]

So, 1 guy didn't give LeBron a first place vote and gave it to Melo. Damn New York writer.

[Axel The Great]

Let's also keep in mind that they added not just Harden but Asik, Lin, Delfino, Beverley, and practically added Greg Smith. Also got 1000+ more and much better minutes out of Parsons and Morris. In other words they basically added 7.5 of their top nine players this season. Next on the list is Toney Douglas, so 8.5 of top ten. It's not like they added Harden to a 25 win team and won 20-25 more games, they added Harden and 7 other players to a 42 win team and made it a 50 win team.

I see your point. However, if you take the current team, without James Harden, would the Rockets still be able to mount 42 wins? That's how I'm looking at it. I'd bet no, but you can definitely argue the opposite. Having gained Harden, Lin, Asik, Delfino, etc., the Rockets lost Lowry, Scola, Dragic, Courtney Lee, Budinger, Kevin Martin. You take Harden away, I doubt this team gets 40+ wins. Meanwhile, the latter squad mentioned did.

The only sure-fire way to see if a Harden-less Rockets would accumulate 40+ wins would be if he sat out an entire season with an injury (*knocks on wood*), and see how the rest of the team would adjust. Yes, the group of Lin, Parsons, Delfino, Asik, Smith, and Beverley contributed to the overall improvement of the Rockets, but I firmly believe Harden's contribution was the largest of them all.

And the fact how LeBron made Heat dominate isn't valuable? Harden made Houston irrelevant to perennial while LeBron made Miami elite to the untouchables. Major upgrades both ways. The latter one may have been a fancy one.

Yes it is, but that's not what I was debating. And I wouldn't go as far as rating the Miami Heat "untouchable." Unstoppable? Yes, they're extremely hard to stop. But I don't think they're at the untouchable level. At least not yet.

[Jackal]

So, 1 guy didn't give LeBron a first place vote and gave it to Melo. Damn New York writer.

Was a Miami guy that voted for Melo.

[benji]

"LeBron James to win the first unanimous MVP award in NBA history" is what this thread should have been named. But meh, it's benji so I'm not not surprised.

God damn it benji. What did I tell you about drinking and posting? PUI is just as dangerous as DUI.

This is what you dopes get for calling me out for only reporting the facts instead of Miami fan speculative wankery.

Yes, the group of Lin, Parsons, Delfino, Asik, Smith, and Beverley contributed to the overall improvement of the Rockets, but I firmly believe Harden's contribution was the largest of them all.

A couple things. I wasn't arguing Harden is not the biggest impact, merely that you can't ascribe the change in record to him alone considering how the entire rotation was overhauled. And I think the original question I asked is more relevant to the debate you were having more than the mere "eliminate this player from existence" hypothetical: if we swap LeBron and Harden, which team do you expect to get better, Miami or Houston?*

Another thing is that if they didn't have Harden they would have still had Kevin Martin, who while not at Harden's level is still a guy who can get close to 20 points per on quality efficiency. (And he even managed to play 77 games this season!) So while they would have dropped, likely out of the playoffs, and certainly wouldn't have had a near Top Five offense I don't think they'd drop too far past the Mavericks. Though I haven't done a projection or anything.

*(Or maybe for a real world hypothetical assume we swapped out Sixth Man of the Year James Harden from the Thunder for Kevin Martin...)

[NovU]

What am I missing here besides a simple sanity?