Live 2000 vs. its successors

[mortalsoul3]

Surveying the NBA Live 2006 wish/request list attached to this site, I come to the conclusion that the Live series hasn't improved much since the quintessential 2000 edition in terms of its simulation features and realism. In fact, perhaps it's regressed.

Given that, I'm wondering what elements of the game have improved? I'm an addicted 2000 (PC) player/simmer . . . yet one game feature that truly bothers me in 2000 is the poor point guard play on cpu teams. Decision-making is erratic, even for the game's very best PGs. Court-vision and general passing skills are shoddy. PG shot selection is horrendous, partcularly at the end of relatively close games -- unless you consider one bricked three attempt after the other bricked three attempt after the third bricked three attempt ( etc.) good basketball? Good scoring point guards tend to defer excessively to mediocre teammates. Poor scoring point guards tend to hold on to the ball obsessively, stealing shot clock ticks and shot attempts from superstar teammates. To me, this is the most significant shortcoming within an otherwise stellar basketball sim game.

Is the point guard A.I. any higher in later versions of LIve? If so, what else has evolved within these later editions, aside the graphics?
Thanks.

[alexboom]

I didn't played NBA Live 2005, but I own Live 2004.

In terms of AI and gameplay, you could feel some big improvements compared to NBA Live 2000. Live 2004 is really far from being perfect, there is really room for improvement, it's also a shame to see some glitches still remaining, but it's still fun to play. The most satisfying thing is now that when a player on offense is free, he shoots or attacks the basket, contrary to NBA Live 2000, when it is very frustrating to see the CPU point guard going alone in offense, and stopping his run at the three point arc, waiting for teamates.

The biggest improvement remains the graphics though.

[mortalsoul3]

The most satisfying thing is now that when a player on offense is free, he shoots or attacks the basket, contrary to NBA Live 2000, when it is very frustrating to see the CPU point guard going alone in offense, and stopping his run at the three point arc, waiting for teamates.

I completely forgot to mention that fool element of the guard play in 2000. Glad to hear that snafu has been addressed. Thanks for the reply, Andrew.

I look forward to hearing your take on Live 05 & 06, particularly the Franchise modes. Here's hoping EA re-introduces the "Create A Team" option in 06 . . .

[TMACool]

YEP 2000 point guards remind me the early years of IVERSOn ...... not to speak the games AI. but in sim situations 2000 comes close to realism. later NBA lives really inmprove 300% of the graphics but has been converted to arcade style which EA believe is what the majority of fans really like. but not for me

[mortalsoul3]

As long as you draw and recognize the distinction beteween "early days" A.I.VERson and the contemporary All. Ivey/reincarnation of Tiny Archibald in his prime, we're all good.
Peace.

[TMACool]

PEACE 2

[mortalsoul3]

Thanks to you and Andrew for comments, my friend. Peace.

[alexboom]

me not Andrew me Alexboom

[mortalsoul3]

My fault, Alex. What came over me . . . respect due, Boom.

[TMACool]

hey guys i have NBA live 2005 now. it cost me big time but no worries. what a game. everything is doing fine for me for the moment. and im testing everything on it. i already found flaws but i'm not judging yet. lets say im in the getting to know mode for now. so far it is the best of all the live series for me but the conclusion will have to wait. I will leave all 2000 editing n patching for the moment and give this 2005 a dry run. i will post soon if it really surpasses our beloved nba live 2000. it sure surpass 2004 though

[mortalsoul3]

Live 05 better than Live 00? Seriously? Does trading draft picks work in franchise mode? And what's up with the GM rankings and receiving offers to manage other teams leaguewide? Is Create-A-Team back? I haven't picked up a new Live since 03 -- best feature of that edition, by far, was the J.Kidd cover. Now that I think about it, that was the only memorable component. Has 05 salvaged the Classic series?

Another question: what factors does the game database take into consideration when choosing All-NBA teams?

I just finished simming a season in Live 2000, and only one of the All-NBA selections (Tim Duncan - a rare appropriate MVP) actually played for a team that qualified for the playoffs. A player whom I created ("Enzo Mancini" -- think Andre Kirilenko with a 20-foot jumper and back-to-the basket game) qualified for the All-NBA First Team over C.Webb, who lead the Kings to the #2 seed out West and averaged 19.6 pts, 12.2 rbs, 1 blk & 1 ast & shot over 50% from the field; an updated version of Elton Brand, who lead the Clips to the #7 seed, averaging 16.3 pts, 10.8rbs, 2.2asts and shooting .836 from the free throw line; a revised Dirk, who put up just under 21pts, just over 10 rebounds, and 2.8 assists for the #8 seed Mavs; and KG, whose Wolves barely missed the playoffs, although the Big Ticket lead the league in rebounding with 15.7/game while blocking 2.5 shots/game.

Enzo's season numbers were solid and reflective of his well-rounded game: 17.8pts, 9.2rbs, 3.8asts, & 2.5blks, but not only did he average less than a double-double, his Supersonics won barely 30% of their games and finished with the second worst record in the Western Conference.

Oh, and he made it over my Zach Randolph replica too . . . that guy put up 18.2 & 10.2 for the #6 seed Warriors. I personally watched him drop a triple double on Denver in December of this simmed 2000-01 season.

So obviously, the cpu doesn't select All-NBAers premised on statistics, performance, winning, scoring, defense, or boardwork, so what is the true All-League criteria, gurus, and is it somewhat consistent position-by-position? Thanks.

[TMACool]

the all nba team i think depends on how may times you get to be the player of the game most of the time. i dont even know that a guy with 12 points 11 reb get to be the player of the game over a guy with 31 pts and 7 reb. sometimes the cpu does strange things.


go get your self a copy of nba live 2005 and you will know what i mean

[mortalsoul3]

As a GM in Live 2005, can you scout potential draft eligible players during a current season in franchise mode? Another shortcoming of 2000 is that a team may "tank" a season (i.e., trade its best players if the squad is underperforming), without any available insight into whomever may be available during the offseason via the draft or free agency.

If said GM had been aware that Greg, Peter & Bobby Brady, Theo Huxtable, Steve Urkel, and Bilbo's overgrown, pigeon-toed cousin would be the best ballers available in the incoming draft, perhaps he might have resisted trading away the established stars already on his roster and/or facilitated more potentially beneficial trades rather than "tanking" the season.

[Andrew]

Overall, I consider NBA Live 2005 to be the best game in the series but NBA Live 2000 is probably better in terms of the smaller presentation details (such as some of the statistics screens) and a couple of little things in Franchise Mode (cancel/confirm trades). As far as the gaming experience is concerned, I consider NBA Live 2005 to be the superior game but NBA Live 2000 still remains one of the best games in the series.

[TMACool]

yep if you put sliders and great graphics nba live 2000 will be the greatest sim basketball game ever.



wonder what happened to all those programmers in the nba live 2000 team. if ever they were hired again then the series will surely be on the right track again. seems like from 2001 till 2005 they were using the same crew for the game programmers. go check out the credits in the game

[TMACool]

a little tweak in the AI and upgrade for the music. my wish list is get the live 2000 engine of gameplay into the 2006 game that would be wishful thinking but atleast it a start


wadya think?

[Andrew]

I personally don't agree, as far as realistic scores go NBA Live 2004 and NBA Live 2005 have been the best games in my opinion. There are a few issues with the stats though, notably assists, but I consider NBA Live 2005's gameplay superior. In NBA Live 2000, you couldn't even back down an opponent unless you started dribbling first. From NBA Live 2001 onwards, we've been able to put the ball on the floor and immediately start backing down an opponent in the post.

Dynasty Mode isn't perfect, but it's better than NBA Live 2000's Franchise Mode in terms of features. I agree that some tweaking is required for NBA Live 2006, but I don't think it should be more like NBA Live 2000 per se. When I went back to play NBA Live 2000 for the retro review I noticed some issues that didn't stand out so much back then, but are often forgotten these days.

[TMACool]

it all boils down to the human thrist for perfection.

i guess there wont really be a perfect game afterall even for future live games.


at least some games will surely just be on the satisfactory level
and im sure is satisfied with 2000,2004 and 2005

[Andrew]

I don't think NBA Live will truly ever be a 100% true to life simulation of NBA basketball, not because I don't have faith in the production team but simply because I don't think it's possible. There are some elements of real life that just can't be duplicated properly electronically.

[mortalsoul3]

No one answered my question yet. Sorry for my lacking clarity.

So, Andrew, in 2005's Dynasty Mode, can I -- as GM -- scout players potentially available in the upcoming offseason draft during the regular season itself?

[TMACool]

yep you can

just browse in the scouting report field and pay some dynasty points to scout potential players which you feel will be in the range of your draft pick or the picks you think will be good enough for you to trade next seaso.


another wuestion though

can the dynasty point cheats be use more than twice? i just can't seem to cheat again

[mortalsoul3]

"Dynasty Points" . . .? In other words, a GM must invest some of a team's salary cap "moneys" into scouting. That's phat. And I can "cheat" like this during a regular season in progress?

I still think I'm going to wait for Live 06 . . . hoping the next edition takes simultaneous steps forward toward the ESPN/Sega series available on X-Box and steps backward toward the seminal EA Live 2000 simulation experience.

Thanks, Mac.

[TMACool]

it cost around 300 points


the cheat is 50000 but it is easily gone for buying team planes and stuff. you can check the 2005 thread because there are a lot of questions in there that might be same as yours