Formulas

[Dee4Three]

I am going to say this, as I have more freedom as I am a contributor (not an admin) to basically say what is on my mind freely.

Skoadam, cut the shit. And I say that as a friend on here, I always got along with you. But seriously, grow up and cut the shit.

The entire premise of your project could be considered a copycat project, the entire thing. The UBR came first for 2K12, and this mod came the year after with a lot of similarities. I could give two fucks about what you chose for a name, I am talking about the project itself. I am not saying you copied, because you didn't copy exactly, and you had some of your own modders (like Slimm, Monzki) who contributed a lot of work. But, this bullshit of attacking nyflava for using some of Slimms ideas to improve the UBR, using his inspiration from Slimm to help that project, is nothing short of petty and childish. You can kick and scream all you want, you can say "I expected more out of you, Dee", you can say "HOW CAN YOU SIDE WITH THEM ON THIS!", etc. None of that matters, I've been following this from the beginning and my stance is rock solid. He drew inspiration from Slimm, he did not copy Slimm exactly, and similarities will exist between both rosters as they seek a ton of the same goals.

Nyflava actually kept the UBR alive, which Hawk based his updates on. I am disappointed in Hawk for not sticking up for Nyflava (I have no problems with stating this publicly), Hawk and I have always had a good relationship. I am disappointed that he has stayed silent outside of one outburst he made, I am disappointed that he is continually asking other people to make decisions in regards to things like faces/research etc that I believe he could do himself. This is the first he is seeing of my disappointment, and he may not give a shit (Which is his choice). But I don't like the way things have been handled since his return, either. Especially him not sticking up for Nyflava, and basically not handling conflicts himself. He should be at the forefront, as he is the leader of his project, and he should stand up for those who help him in his project.

I think you are handling this like a crybaby, I think Hawk is also not handling his side right, I think NyFlava could have noted that he took inspiration from Slimm from the start (but should be allowed to continue), etc. I also stand with Andrews handling of the situation, as I think it was a fair resolve. I think that NyFlava should be allowed to continue, I think both projects are fantastic and should be continued, and I think that both of you (Hawk and Sko) need to realize the impact these two porjects have had on thousands of people, and appreciate that. I'm not saying hold hands, or even help eachother, I am saying handle things properly, maturely, and move the fuck on.

Sko and Hawk, I love what both of you guys bring to the community. You are ELITE in what you do project wise, I've always thought that. Maintaining these projects for years is ridiculously hard work, and I appreciate it. Hawk made me fall in love with 2K14 for the PC, Sko you made me fall in love with 2K13 for PC, all because of these massive mods and the work contributed by those behind them.

Let it go, move on.

Seriously, who are you to tell a modder he's a crybaby and he has to move on when a parasite steals "HIS" hard work. I'm sick and tired of people being politically correct. Investigate and take action!

I don't think nyflava is a parasite, and the way this is being handled isn't right.

But nyflava hasn't answered my question about if he copy and pasted ANYTHING exactly for Slimm, and just slightly changed the values after.

[Dee4Three]

I also want to point out.

I said how much a I respected Sko, his work, and his team.

I apologize to Sko for calling him a crybaby, I'm just frustrated with the situation like everybody else. Honestly, I just want him to keep going and for the community to get along. I consider him a major part of the NLSC (Like Hawk), and I just want them to be happy, the modders to be happy, and the people who use the work to be happy.

With that being said, I am sorry Sko.

Ill say again though, I would like to know if Nyflava Copy/pasted directly from Slimm into RedMC, and made small adjustments, followed by calling it his own. I want to hear that from him. And if that is the case, not mentioned Slimm in credits (Or asking for permission to be released in the UBR) is not a good look, and he shouldn't be doing that. I also don't like that this is all being handled in the URB thread, and think that once this is resolved (And I think it will be) this fued/conflict should be removed from this thread (Like it was from the UBR thread). This is largely to do with work being used in THAT project, not this one. So to have this all here, and the UBR thread be clean, doesn't make sense. I am sure Andrew would agree with that, and would have done that anyway.

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Dee4Three]

'm just seeing this... I'm gonna say this once... keep it classy and keep it moving.. I'm a grown man, I don't have time to go back and forth with other "adults" about a 5 year old video game...

First off, this all started about me copying Slimm44's work simply because I posted a picture of Wilt Chamberlain averaging 50 pts in the 62 season. From me simply posting that pic, I was assumed to have stolen Slimm44's work because seemingly in you alls world, he is the only person on the planet capable of coming up with ratings for 2k. Slimm44 saw that picture and wrongly thought that since I helped him breifly last year with some retro rosters, the only way possible I could've achieved the sim outputs in the picture mustve been by using his work. He posted after seeing the pic that I better had not been using his work. Some of you all know the rest that played out. In that all there was never any shred of evidence of me using Slimm44's work or even a clear point on what I "took" from him. I even posted side by side pics of our player ratings from our 2016 & 2017 rosters, since to date that is the only rosters I've ever released... and they were totally different! I even explained in forum how I came to my ratings and they were different than Slimm44's. Me and him talked privately a day or two after all that, I told him how I achieved the outputs in that pic Wilt Chamberlain, and even he finally understood I didn't use his work and all was put to rest.

The funniest thing about that whole ordeal, I posted that same exact pic of Wilt averaging 50 pts (Page 226 of the UBR thread) before me and him ever spoke privately and before me and him ever collabed. In fact, I posted that exact pic, showing MY work, saying I would message him that next day for the first time to work with him. To add, Slimm44 asked me to help him with his project, I didn't come to him. Also, Slimm44 knows all I've ever done in regards to his work is entering stats into a spreadsheet. That's it. How would that even lead to me having access to his work is beyond me. All undeniable facts. And yes people, that was all over me posting a screenshot.

A few days ago, after that whole unwarranted fiasco and some obvious digging, Slimm44 messaged me again saying the coaches tabs for the 2017, 2018 and 2019 rosters were copied from URB to UBR. I explained to him that as some of you know and he knows, I disappeared from NLSC in April of 2017 and have not been back on here until maybe a month ago. I only returned when I saw Hawk23 was back. I was done with modding. By this point, Hawk23 had been gone for going on 3 years. There is no way I could've known he was coming back. I never released my completed 2017 roster nor did I intend to. It was strictly for personal use.

When Hawk23 was back, he asked me if I ever completed a 2017 version of my roster. I told him in fact I did, and hastily and mistakenly sent over a version of my 2017 roster that used the coaches tab from the URB roster. Again, this roster was for personal use, evident by the fact that is was released a year late. It was an honest mistake me sending Hawk23 that roster. From there Hawk23 unbeknownst to the mistake used my 2017 roster for the basis of his 2018 and 2019 rosters. All a mistake.

Now, let's be clear, that is the only thing that is the same in the rosters. I had honestly forgot I even used the coaches tab from URB, and honestly it was just a lazy attempt so I could have the updated coaches in my personal 2017 UBR mod. When I sent it over to Hawk23, it wasn't on my mind about the staff tabs, nor did I think it was that big of a deal to begin with.

So yes, UBR is currently mistakenly using your staff tab for 3 seasons. That's it. That's your sole smoking gun. Let's be clear, Hawk23 had nothing to do with that. I take full responsibility for it. But seriously tho... That's kind of a reach on you guys part... Coaches tabs for 3 seasons of rosters. For an inexperienced, infrequent modder such as myself. A nicer person would've addressed this privately and understood a rookie mistake. Yes a rookie as that has literally been my only release to date. You seriously think all this is warranted or furthermore that it means everything about UBR is "stolen" from you all? Get over yourselves.

Do not worry tho, all coaches tabs in UBR, the correct and updated ones were already sent to Hawk23 yesterday. I prioritized correcting this issue because it is the only thing ever you could say I used of yours. From here, there isn't a single similarity between mods that cannot be attributed to simple coincidence. Trust me, I might want that more than any one. I want nothing to do with your work, nor do I need anything from it. It's a shame because I always supported you guys work, and you've been on this wack ass witch hunt trying to make it seem like I owe you all something.

We are all tired of hearing the crying and I cannot wait til the correct staff tabs get applied in UBR so I never have to hear anything again. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

Just realize, you've given me added motivation, so when you see my upcoming works, you'll know they have nothing to do with yours and you'll wish you would've been nicer to someone who was always willing to help you. Mark my words. I'm not going to stoop into some petty competition with you all, I'm just gonna let my work speak for itself. Thank you for that.

Also and again, recognize the fact that this is a video game and I'm a real ass man... watch it with the "bitch" talk... I'm not the one...

So, I think this is a fair response. The only thing I certainly would have done different (if I were Hawk and you) would have been to give credit or ask permission from SLIMM before those tabs were used in the UBR. Or, if found out later, state that on here with an apology to Slimm, and state that you would change them.

The good news is: You have changed them, and it sounds like no similarities exist anymore (copy and paste similarities). I imagine that Sko was pretty angry when he saw the coaches tabs copied, as he should be, but your explanation does make sense and that fact that you fixed it is the right move.

My opinion is (And I'll bow our after this). That the matter should resolved, as we now know what was copied, that was was copied was changed, why it was copied, and that no copy paste exists anymore between UBR and URB.

I sent Sko a PM today apologizing to him again for my behavior during this conflict, and thank you to nyflava for coming on here and giving a detailed explanation.

Hopefully we can move forward, and Sko will come back. Would be a shame to lose him.

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

[skoadam]

nyflava2k9, you finished ?

[Dee4Three]

Dee4Three:
I don't think nyflava is a parasite, and the way this is being handled isn't right.

But nyflava hasn't answered my question about if he copy and pasted ANYTHING exactly for Slimm, and just slightly changed the values after.

Bro, this BS with the staff tab is the only thing that has ever been the same between mods and it was an honest mistake. I have always given Slimm44 due credit. His name is literally in the credits for my mini update (Page 227 UBR thread) which is the only rosters I've released. I've been more than kind and transparent if anyone reads through the UBR thread.

I will be creating a whole thread explaining my ratings for players and coaches if I'm still around. Already planned on it. I have no issue sharing my work. If i was really trying to steal from them, like why would I have changed everything in the players tab but nothing in the coaches tab. The player ratings are totally different. They are based on my own formulas I came up with on my own. I even just newly created a coaches ratings spreadsheet this past week after the staff tab thing was brought to my attention. I assure you, especially after you saw what played out weeks ago, Slimm44 didn't help me make that or have any influence whatsoever on that. I am more than capable of coming up with ratings on my own. All I'm guilty of is using URB's staff tab in what I thought was going to be a personal mod that was never going to be released. I forgot to remove it. Wow..

If anyone wants further evidence the mods are completely different, other than this staff tab bs... Sim the 2016 and 2017 rosters in both UBR and URB and tell me which one produces more realistic outcomes. Tell me the ratings are anywhere close. I dare any one (not coming at you) to do this and then have the audacity to say they are the same work or ever doubt the depth of my work again. The updated coach tabs going into UBR soon will be all the evidence I need of the depth of my skill. Look up things like contracts, years coaching and you'll see which tabs are more accurate when I'm actually engaged on that sort of thing. Look up things like OFF, DEF ratings from each specific year and the see how they are accurately reflected in the coaches ratings I just did. See how Sko will probably try to update theirs now. Compare the new staff tabs once they are released in UBR to the screenshots Sko posted. Anyone will see I've taken things beyond. Like I said, its just motivation. I hope to put all this behind us peacefully from here and still be around, but if not. So long all. I've officially said all I have to say.

The staff tab is not BS, and it came out well after the fued started (publically). It's not BS to a modder who created it, who put work into it. You say it's fixed now, which is great, and that was the right move. But don't call it BS. I had someone take my signatures (exactly) from a number of players without any credit, and I made a statement about it because as a modder who put work into them (watching videos, going into practice and testing, etc) it bothered me. So I don't agree with you making light of it.

Either way, If it were me, I would consider the matter resolved. As we have figured out exactly what was copied, it has not been changed, and the projects can carry on. Again, that's the way I would handle it.

I'm going to bow out now.

[skoadam]

Dee4Three, nope you are not goin anywhere

Last edited by skoadam on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[slimm44]

Dee4Three:
I don't think nyflava is a parasite, and the way this is being handled isn't right.

But nyflava hasn't answered my question about if he copy and pasted ANYTHING exactly for Slimm, and just slightly changed the values after.

Bro, this BS with the staff tab is the only thing that has ever been the same between mods and it was an honest mistake. I have always given Slimm44 due credit. His name is literally in the credits for my mini update (Page 227 UBR thread) which is the only rosters I've released. I've been more than kind and transparent if anyone reads through the UBR thread.

I will be creating a whole thread explaining my ratings for players and coaches if I'm still around. Already planned on it. I have no issue sharing my work. If i was really trying to steal from them, like why would I have changed everything in the players tab but nothing in the coaches tab. The player ratings are totally different. They are based on my own formulas I came up with on my own. I even just newly created a coaches ratings spreadsheet this past week after the staff tab thing was brought to my attention. I assure you, especially after you saw what played out weeks ago, Slimm44 didn't help me make that or have any influence whatsoever on that. I am more than capable of coming up with ratings on my own. All I'm guilty of is using URB's staff tab in what I thought was going to be a personal mod that was never going to be released. I forgot to remove it. Wow..

If anyone wants further evidence the mods are completely different, other than this staff tab bs... Sim the 2016 and 2017 rosters in both UBR and URB and tell me which one produces more realistic outcomes. Tell me the ratings are anywhere close. I dare any one (not coming at you) to do this and then have the audacity to say they are the same work or ever doubt the depth of my work again. The updated coach tabs going into UBR soon will be all the evidence I need of the depth of my skill. Look up things like contracts, years coaching and you'll see which tabs are more accurate when I'm actually engaged on that sort of thing. Look up things like OFF, DEF ratings from each specific year and the see how they are accurately reflected in the coaches ratings I just did. See how Sko will probably try to update theirs now. Compare the new staff tabs once they are released in UBR to the screenshots Sko posted. Anyone will see I've taken things beyond. Like I said, its just motivation. I hope to put all this behind us peacefully from here and still be around, but if not. So long all. I've officially said all I have to say.

Hey, everybody! I spent a few weeks away from the forums after asking Andrew to make my account inactive. I honestly didn't want to deal with the drama of it all anymore and felt GREAT since I've been away. Then, Sko mentioned the coaching profiles to me so I looked into it. In regards to that topic, Nyflava2k9 is partially correct. We did speak about this issue about a week ago and he told me that he had inadvertently used my coaching profile in all rosters he updated for Hawk. We had a great conversation (and have had great conversations since the initial posts I made challenging his work). I accepted his words at face value.

Then, Sko tells me this morning that he found some more similarities in our 2019 roster file and in the one Nyflava2k9 produced for Hawk. So, I started looking into his concerns. The following screenshots are what I have found in the hour or so I've put into it this morning. Then, I read this post where you say "Tell me the ratings are anywhere close. I dare any one (not coming at you) to do this and then have the audacity to say they are the same work or ever doubt the depth of my work again."

So, here goes.



Those are comparisons for information from low post shot rating to hot zone 14, excluding signature skills. I did not include signature skills because I 0'd them out due to how they influence gameplay for the worse. In these screenshots, you will see 5 different colors...green, yellow, orange, blue, and black.

Green player information is from my roster.
Yellow player information is from nyflava's roster.
Orange is very similar information in both rosters.
Blue is nearly identifical information in both rosters.
Black is for players who weren't in both rosters or that were in nyflava's roster that I haven't edited yet (ie rookies)

Notice that nearly every single category of data that is not tied to statistically-driven ratings and tendencies are nearly identical in both rosters (blue). I haven't run basic statistical analysis (I can if necessary), but the eye-test says that the information is over 90% identical in both rosters. I haven't bothered to count the columns of information in regards to this conversation, but I would guess somewhere between 50-60% of ALL information in UBR's roster either identical or nearly identical to mine.

The blue columns that are either completely identical or nearly identical are as follows (none of the following influence the simulation engine in any way but have serious influences on gameplay:

Code:

Ratings:
Euro Step
Hop Step
Runner
Step Through
Ball Handling
Off Hand Dribble
Ball Security
Hands
Stamina
Speed
Quickness
Strength
Vertical
Hustle
Durability
Potential
Emotion

Tendencies:
Pump fake
Triple Threat
TT Shot
No TT
Straight Drive
Size Up
Hesitation
Drive R or L
Crossover
Spin Dribble
Step Back Dribble
Half Spin
Double Cross
Behind Back
Hesitation Cross
In and Out
Simple Drive
Fadeaway
Step Back Jumper
Spin Jumper
Dunk vs Layup
Alley Oop
Use Glass
Crash
Post Up
Post Spin
Post Drive
Aggressive Backdown
Leave Post
Drop Step
Face Up
Back Down
Post Shots
Post Hook
Fadeaway
Shimmy Shot
Hop Shot

Hot Zones

Keep in mind, I didn't post pictures of coaching profiles because nyflava2k9 has already stated those are mine.

nyflava2k9, my question to you is, how did you put so much nearly identical non-statistically driven ratings and tendencies and coaching profile data as mine into your roster file? Again, this is not a little bit of information here. This appears to be 50-60% of information. Was it through copy and pasting or did you use our roster file as a base then input the information you developed by your own formulas?

nyflava2k9, I took your word multiple times. I still have no hard feelings. However, I would genuinely like you to respond to this post and explain how your information is so similar to mine if you didn't either copy and paste it or if you didn't use my roster file as a base. Please, don't play the victim and talk about ducking out or quitting editing. Man to man, please respond directly to the screenshots I've posted.

PS The players in these screenshots are scattered across various teams in the roster file. I've skimmed through the rest of the players in the roster files not included in these screen shots and the trends I've identified in this post seem to be consistent throughout the roster file. I have not compared any other roster files, but I'm assuming that the same trends and identical properties would be found in all roster files nyflava2k9 has "updated" for the UBR mod. However, I could be wrong in this as I haven't analyzed them.

In the infamous words of Omar, "If you come at the king, you best not miss" (Since some people didn't get it, this was a joke )

Last edited by slimm44 on Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

[skoadam]

Its a sea of blue...

[Dee4Three]

Dee4Three, nope you are not goin anywhere

Ha.

Well, I'll let you guys sort it out and shut my yapper. I'm seeing new info is coming out, and I want you guys to be able to deal with it without my intruding.

[johnwest1985]

good info slimm

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Dee4Three]

I'm Just going to leave this here... This is my very first post I ever made regarding a UBR update. It explains why I did an update and what influences were used... Read what I have highlighted in the green boxes...


[ Image ]


As you can see, I have never ran from the fact that my work was influenced by Slimm44. I made no secret that my work referenced Slimm44 works from the very beginning. As you can see, Slimm44 didnt have a problem with this then. Even recruited me to help him in his project in the very next post. Yall didn't have a problem for the whole over a year since I released my mini update in April of 2017. No, all this is because Hawk23 recently came back and called URB a copy cat and you guys are butt hurt and too bitch made to address him directly. I was gone from here for over a year. I have been gone for longer than that before as well. I tried to share something small with the community. A small 2 season update that I specifically called "THE UNOFFICAL UBR UPDATE" because it was just that, an unofficial, fan work. It was strictly for nostalgic purposes to try to add a few of the most current seasons to UBR. I maintained from the very begining that most of my update was pieces of others modders work. If I crossed lines in that, so be it. I'm done with this shit. A bunch of grown ass men sitting here whining that I used a couple of columns from their ratings. You all know that know I have never contributed anything before this, and you all know I have given much credit throughout. You all also know I was a willing member of the community who has offered nothing but help and support in the past. You couldnt message me privately with a simple, hey thats not cool. No, from the start of all of this, you all have acted like complete dicks. You guys feel good about yourself now?

Whatever made it into UBR from URB, that YES I used some of as a base (never ran from that) solely in the interest of fucking contributing a minor update, could have easily been pointed out and I wouldve gladly apologized and removed it. If there are tendencies too that are the same, my mistake. Fucking message me and tell me and I wouldve easily changed it. But dont try to hang me out to dry in public, knowing I'm new at this and have been nothing but kind and again, offer support and help. I'm a man before anything. Yall are acting like something totally different.

Slimm44, you know my ratings system is different, which your initial claim against was. Now, you're fishing for other shit that I told you personally in the past I got from you. I told you I got the idea to zero out certain tendencies from you. This was never a secret. But keep playing this game in public. You're good at it.

And come for the king?? Do you hear yourselves? You mod a five year old basketball game.... You're the king of ratings for it. You happy about that? Did 2K get you that application yet? You all are the most juvenile bunch I've met. You can have your mod and title of whatever you guys are aiming to be. This is why modders dont stick around. No support whatsoever. I can easily change the minor few columns back to UBR originals. You didn't even give me the chance though. You called for me to be banned and came at me sideways before I could even respond. Like I said, if the community wants me gone, I'm gone. My life goes on. You all will still be here next year trying to compete with a mod that was dead for 3 years. Good luck with that. Sorry to others for my tone, but this shit is ridiculous. I feel so lame to ever have been a part of any of this. I've been beyond nice, apologetic and supportive. But fuck all that now. You guys have succeeded in nothing more than running away someone who has done nothing but been kind and receptive to you. Now go look in a mirror and see if you feel better about yourselves. See if you really feel like a man now. Pat your self on the back and see how much better your lives are because you guys treated me like this. Banner day at URB.... Pathetic AF....

Slimm never gave you permission to use exact information from his rosters, in UBR official releases, which happened. This is what upset Slimm and Sko, and.... during this fued you could have stated all of this, that many aspects were kept intact exactly how Slimm had them, which is "copied". You are only coming out and admitting this stuff now that actual screenshots of the copied material is being shown, otherwise you wouldn't have come forward with it.

These are part of the official releases of the UBR, it's no longer personal use at that point, it becomes published work that somebody else produced. You intending to use this for personal use, is a moot point now. It was made into a moot point once that work because part of the official release.

That's the point, Slimm does have a reason to be upset, I would be as well. Sko also does. I like that this situation is coming to an end, but I think it's a good lesson for everybody (including me).

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Dee4Three]

I'm Just going to leave this here... This is my very first post I ever made regarding a UBR update. It explains why I did an update and what influences were used... Read what I have highlighted in the green boxes...


[ Image ]


As you can see, I have never ran from the fact that my work was influenced by Slimm44. I made no secret that my work referenced Slimm44 works from the very beginning. As you can see, Slimm44 didnt have a problem with this then. Even recruited me to help him in his project in the very next post. Yall didn't have a problem for the whole over a year since I released my mini update in April of 2017. No, all this is because Hawk23 recently came back and called URB a copy cat and you guys are butt hurt and too bitch made to address him directly. I was gone from here for over a year. I have been gone for longer than that before as well. I tried to share something small with the community. A small 2 season update that I specifically called "THE UNOFFICAL UBR UPDATE" because it was just that, an unofficial, fan work. It was strictly for nostalgic purposes to try to add a few of the most current seasons to UBR. I maintained from the very begining that most of my update was pieces of others modders work. If I crossed lines in that, so be it. I'm done with this shit. A bunch of grown ass men sitting here whining that I used a couple of columns from their ratings. You all know that know I have never contributed anything before this, and you all know I have given much credit throughout. You all also know I was a willing member of the community who has offered nothing but help and support in the past. You couldnt message me privately with a simple, hey thats not cool. No, from the start of all of this, you all have acted like complete dicks. You guys feel good about yourself now?

Whatever made it into UBR from URB, that YES I used some of as a base (never ran from that) solely in the interest of fucking contributing a minor update, could have easily been pointed out and I wouldve gladly apologized and removed it. If there are tendencies too that are the same, my mistake. Fucking message me and tell me and I wouldve easily changed it. But dont try to hang me out to dry in public, knowing I'm new at this and have been nothing but kind and again, offer support and help. I'm a man before anything. Yall are acting like something totally different.

Slimm44, you know my ratings system is different, which your initial claim against was. Now, you're fishing for other shit that I told you personally in the past I got from you. I told you I got the idea to zero out certain tendencies from you. This was never a secret. But keep playing this game in public. You're good at it.

And come for the king?? Do you hear yourselves? You mod a five year old basketball game.... You're the king of ratings for it. You happy about that? Did 2K get you that application yet? You all are the most juvenile bunch I've met. You can have your mod and title of whatever you guys are aiming to be. This is why modders dont stick around. No support whatsoever. I can easily change the minor few columns back to UBR originals. You didn't even give me the chance though. You called for me to be banned and came at me sideways before I could even respond. Like I said, if the community wants me gone, I'm gone. My life goes on. You all will still be here next year trying to compete with a mod that was dead for 3 years. Good luck with that. Sorry to others for my tone, but this shit is ridiculous. I feel so lame to ever have been a part of any of this. I've been beyond nice, apologetic and supportive. But fuck all that now. You guys have succeeded in nothing more than running away someone who has done nothing but been kind and receptive to you. Now go look in a mirror and see if you feel better about yourselves. See if you really feel like a man now. Pat your self on the back and see how much better your lives are because you guys treated me like this. Banner day at URB.... Pathetic AF....

Slimm never gave you permission to use exact information from his rosters, in UBR official releases, which happened. This is what upset Slimm and Sko, and.... during this fued you could have stated all of this, that many aspects were kept intact exactly how Slimm had them, which is "copied". You are only coming out and admitting this stuff now that actual screenshots of the copied material is being shown, otherwise you wouldn't have come forward with it.

These are part of the official releases of the UBR, it's no longer personal use at that point, it becomes published work that somebody else produced. You intending to use this for personal use, is a moot point now. It was made into a moot point once that work because part of the official release.

That's the point, Slimm does have a reason to be upset, I would be as well. Sko also does. I like that this situation is coming to an end, but I think it's a good lesson for everybody (including me).

The thing is, I never intended to release any of this. I truly forgot his work was in their. If I had remembered or been told a simple, hey, that's not cool, it could have easily been resolved. My work with ratings focused on stat outputs. Nothing that effects stat outputs have been copied from Slimm44. The other fields that I used from URB were just residuals from the base that I never updated. Again, it wasn't some master plan to steal his work and a real man would've recognized, hey, this guy is knew, maybe he doesn't know, and addressed me one on one. I would've taken it upon myself to issue a public apology at that point. But no, this has been handled straight childish. I consider others intentions. Ask yourselves, what do I have to gain from any of this? That right there should tell you if there was any malice in my actions. It's honest mistakes that could've easily been handled in private. Ask yourself why all this was brought into the forum instead of me. This is nothing but an attempt on their end to stop UBR. A more understanding, adult would've handled shit totally different. If it's an apology they seek: I apologize. If It's transparency they seek: this was a mistake that I am not running from. If it's credit they seek: I have tried to give credit from jump. What else do they want from me other than to discredit absolutetly everything I've done and also UBR in process simply because of few, insignificant in my book, periphial ratings were used mistakenly. I have been more than willing from jump to come to quiet, simple solutions. They don't want that.

It doesn't matter if you intended to or not, of course they are going to have elevated reactions if the exact information is used in official releases. I don't blame them at all now that the full story is out. You yourself could have squashed this earlier had you stated the facts when the fued first started, stating that there was quite a bit of information copy and pasted.

They are not trying to stop the UBR, they are trying to make sure that unique information from the URB isn't copy/pasted into another project. This became a bigger deal once Slimms work was used in official releases of the UBR without permission/credit.

[Dee4Three]

And I'm not disregarding Slimm44 or Sko's feelings in any of this. I get their upset. Give me a chance to fix it is all I ask. Sorry i didn't call out from my 2 jobs so I could find the time to make the necessary changes quicker. They truly weren't even a thought to me. This work was from over a year ago. I truly forgot. I apologize for any inconvenience and apologize for not being more detailed. What else can I do except fix this which is what I'm trying to do. Please, if there is anything I have used, let me know, it will gladly be changed. I don't want to steal others work. That never was my intention. Again, I get nothing from any of this. All I want is for this to be resolved, and to know what I'm doing wrong so i can right it. No one has given me that respect from jump.

I'll shutup now..

Slimm/Sko/Nyflava/Hawk, have at it.

I am having trouble staying out of this, not sure why. I think it's because my 2K17 projects were similar to these two projects.

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

[slimm44]

I was going to respond with a significantly different and longer post than this one, but changed my mind.

Happy gaming, nyflava2k9.

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

[[Q]]

I don't see a reason why you 4 can't continue to create 2 different but great mods on your own. You guys are talented and have a good understanding of how to do it, so for everyone's sake can we continue on without any sharing/borrowing/"stealing" or whatever between the two projects unless agreed upon by everyone involved?

Thanks.

[Andrew]

So, obviously a lot of new information and communication to discuss here. First of all, I'll own my mistake in terms of my previous ruling. These further screenshots and admissions have confirmed what's happened, so I extend my apologies to skoadam and slimm44 for the earlier error in judgement. The situation is a lot clearer now in light of all that.

I think most of us could accept that honest mistakes have been made here and there using someone else's work, and it seems the situation with the staff data was more or less smoothed over and a misunderstanding, but it's a really big oversight to use that much data in terms of the player ratings in a publicly released project; especially when the issue has already been raised and the point clearly made that that data wasn't to be used. Mistakes happen, especially rookie mistakes, but it's a lot of data to forget about having used as a base, in three seasons' worth of rosters. You were adamant that different ratings were going to be used, but that hasn't been the case.

A sincere apology is definitely appropriate at the very least. I can see you've offered up apologies already, though it's not for me to accept them because it's skoadam and slimm44 that you're apologising too. In terms of the roster, there absolutely needs to be no URB work included in future releases. If it's a matter of remaking those rosters, then that's what's going to have to happen. If UBR rosters or data had been used as a base without permission, it would be the same deal. I would also suggest that HAWK23 needs to know about the situation so it can be appropriately acknowledged and properly rectified in UBR moving forward. It's only fair, and again, the same would be true if UBR work was used thusly in a release for URB.

Frankly, there is grounds for a ban here. Mistakes happen and second chances can be offered, especially when there's a sincere apology. You did double down at first however, and it took some screenshots for everything to come to light and the story to be straight. It does make it harder to be lenient in those circumstances, even though I realise you just wanted to create something good for the community. Again, I did advocate for you in the original argument about the situation, because you insisted you'd be using your own formulas and ratings, but that's not what's happened here. Even if you're working on that stuff,that work should've already gone into the recent official UBR releases, rather than any of the URB data.

So we're still coming to a resolution on this, and it's past 4 AM here, so I will need to turn in soon and pick this up again as soon as I possibly can. But as we try to move forward here, I'll reiterate that there needs to be a genuine apology, and the situation acknowledged and rectified as far as UBR is concerned. I think it would be appropriate that you notify HAWK23 of the situation with the rosters you provided, admit what's happened, and what needs to happen moving forward. Like I said, there's grounds for a ban as well and all things considered, it's probably going to come to that, because it has turned out to be quite a bad situation.

My hope is that both projects can continue and thrive moving forward, but this does need to be sorted out.