Demo Impressions, Screenshots & Videos (Now on XBL & PSN)

Some friends have said that the euro-step with LBJ and Wade and just the B for step-back shots will be too easy to cheese with.

Any comments from you hard-core ballers?

First of all, thanks Jao. Now my on to my comments on the CPUvCPU video:

Some adjustments via sliders are already showing their necessity, unless a higher difficulty will force better choices out of the AI. Too many contested shots with a lot of time on the clock, Westbrook went for a well-contested alley-oop instead of passing to the open guy right next to him or taking the shot himself.

I liked the collisions, the AI actively trying to get open, set picks, push the break, taking advantage of bounce passing and isomotion. If that was 2K13's half-court no-plays offense, I really like what I'm seeing. AI seems really more active than last year, where they'd seem kind of lost and stationary if a play broke or if you went in without a play. Even if the AI is secretly on Auto Playcalling, I'm impressed, but I'd like to see them make better choices on some instances.

I'm not worried, nothing that can't be fixed with difficulty and sliders and tendencies so far.

Really like what I'm seeing.

I understand that in games like 2k12 a year cycle is a short amount of time to really re-create a game so of course there are going to be some similarities between the new and old game for those who keep saying seems like 2k12.

On to impressions for a Demo it is nice...Its not meant to show all of the game but I can tell its going to be fun in Association and My Player because the gameplay to me is much improved. I love the dribbling and defense once I got use to it. I think a lot of people are being impatient as the devs said it taks a little bit to get use to it so if you judge the game after the 1st time playing well what do u expect you don't know what your doing yet lol. Also if you don't like the new dribbling system don't say you don't like the game because 2k has already said you can go back to the reg. controls so it all works out.

The physics are much better, the game is heavier, moves and dunks feel better...on a higher difficulty you can tell it will be competative between user and player. Players play like they are suppose to, speed is much better and rebounding I feel like I really have to box out and go after it Obviously the game can get pretty boring but you have to consider you can't sub, you can't run plays, can't call screens, no timeouts, so it gets a bit redundant(sp) to keep playing 5min. with the same teams.

Overall I'm very excited and happy about the improvements and can't wait to go pick up 2K on Tuesday the overall game I'm sure will be even 10 times better

RS dribbling was the way to go I've gotten used to button shooting now.

Okay, so I downloaded the demo although I usually don't play demos anymore when I have already ordered the game.

Pros

graphics have slightly improved on PS3 in my opinion. Looking sharper and better.
animations! Once again another step forward, best animations of any ball-game ever. Lay-ups look great, some of the dunks seem to be too fancy, but maybe its the sliders.
collision system! no more prescripted collisions. the game really noticed from where the contact comes and the physics work --> Westbrook gets bumped from behind on a layup -> will fall right into the photographers. --> Westbrook gets bumped from somebody in front on him while doing the layup --> while fall awa from the basket and land on his back. Same goes for posterizers. No more in your face dunks which have been captured before. In your face dunks will look different now depending on the dunk animation, where the defender stands, how much contact is made etc. --> make it unique
driving & defense. You can now offer your opponent one side to go to, which is good, although its tough for me because i dont like the camera relative control of the right stick on defense. More contact is made on drives now but it won't take away control from the ball handler. You can stay in front of the ball handler and force tough shots which I like.
player celebrations and reactions are awesome and very well blended, looks very fluid. I like how Harden goes down when hitting a three.
manual bounce pass. Really good to pass the ball inside. Deflections look very good.
pro hop button is back. Way better than the shot stick pro hop last year imo. Also the responsiveness after making pro hop/sig gather and then going for the shot is really fast. I like that.
passing has been improved. Responding faster
new hail mary animations which look great and make it easier to get shots off with the clock counting down. By the way: the show tenth now on the clock.
blocking has been improved


Cons

this fucking guy who screams "woooohooooho" is back. I hate that. Really annoying.
new control is really difficult. So it's maybe not a big con because I can learn it. But I also don't like the new dribble stick. I can do a spin using the left stick although this should not be the dribble stick ... the dribble control just does not seem logic and you can pull off very unrealistic moves pretty easily. Definitely don't like that.
just like almost everybody I don't like the presentation. The golden stuff just does not look very NBA-like. Nowhere near any broadcasting.
signature skills are tough to see, maybe because of the sliders, which make almost everybody a good shooter etc.


Might update this, I played like 10-15 quarters so far.

I'm hearing a lot of positives coming out about the gameplay and physics. Most of what i read so far matches where my expectations are. Can't wait to play it for myself.

Anyone else notice the CPU kicks their leg out while shooting an unnecessary amount?

its the dynamic shot generator shit. Its just an animation chooser for post-shot stuff, like running to the hoop

I don't even know what that means.

its the dynamic shot generator shit. Its just an animation chooser for post-shot stuff, like running to the hoop

Very unpredictable and it can be pretty annoying. Another thing I find odd is the fact most passes connect regardless of difficulty.

Good and Bad

Bad - tried forcing my way to the basket, first with James and Durant, then with others. It works for a score about 50% of the time with James or Durant. Pass the ball to the guy, dribble around while pointing towards the basket, put the shot up once near the basket. It works about 30% of the time for other players.

Scoring is too easy and thus scores are too high even in CPU vs CPU play.

The presentation makes it look like an arcade game. Hip hop litters every aspect of the game.

Good - CPU vs CPU play the stars took the majority of the shots. In most games the top scorer for Miami was James or Wade with Bosh second and leading in rebounds, while Durant led the Thunder in every game. Durant scored on a number of fast breaks. Most fast breaks involved nice passes to Durant as he out paced the defense rather than because of ridiculous full court passes.

I don't even know what that means.

What he means is that he believes the kick of the leg as well as other reactions and movements and animations after the shot is made are the feature touted as "Dynamic Shot Generator". I don't agree completely. IMO, the DSG is the mechanic that chooses the actual shot animation depending on the situation, including what animation the player goes into after an in-air collision, depending on the two players momentum, etc. It may also include the post-shot reactions such as the kick of the leg or players holding parts of their body if they got hit there during the shot, so he may have gotten that right, but I think DSG is 2K's implementation of pseudo-RTP, affecting both the shot animation, and what happens after. That's why we see the increased variety in what happens during and after a collision during a drive and/or mid-air, compared to the handful of 2-player canned animations we had last year.

On another note, I like how most of the people's complaints are things we can easily fix via sliders, ratings and tendencies.

Everyone's been commenting on presentation, I tend to agree, I don't like the menus style the whole gold Beyonce meets Mariah Carey theme. But I can live with it, don't like it, but doesn't bother me really. My ideal menu style would be something clean TNT based.

In regards to music, I really like it. I'm a fan of Jay-Z. There was a Cold Play song in there too. I don't usually care about the music and I turn it off because it gets annoying but it's good this year to have known artists with decent songs. So surprisingly while playing I was like I'm feeling the tracks in this game.

After playing some more, gameplay is pretty solid. Obviously not perfect and there will be some issues that will need to be fixed but overall plays great.

Graphics is very important to me 1-B to gameplay and they didn't address anything graphics wise that I wanted them to, which on PC i'm not worried because with the mods we have this game is going to be beast mode on pc. I'll suck it up on the xbox version .

But yeah, I'm really excited now for this game, it plays really great, and if you have problems with the controls you can switch back. I'm most excited for the PC version: fixed gameplay + our modding community, is going to make this the most enjoyable bball game I've ever played.

Wow. Was guarding Durant on the baseline. He was up against the baseline, I was between him and the basket, a CPU defender was next to him. We had him trapped on the baseline. He spun. He either teleported to the spot beyond me or went through me (it happened so fast I couldn't tell which) and dunked.

at times when i press x to shoot it never responded, it didnt even do a pump fake. not sure if anyone else has had this happen to them..
btw bounce pass was available in 2k10, i was playing it prior the demo launch. honestly 2k10 is visually better

I'm hearing a lot of positives coming out about the gameplay and physics. Most of what i read so far matches where my expectations are. Can't wait to play it for myself.

Anyone else notice the CPU kicks their leg out while shooting an unnecessary amount?

Yea now that you mention it, even in the CPU vs CPU that Jao posted, a couple wide open shots (uncontested one with Battier) where they still kick out. Sometimes it's almost like a momentum shot towards the basket, other times it just looks awkward and for no reason.

Actually it seems like it often occurs when the player misses the shot, as if he's going in to quickly get his own rebound. Maybe it's tied to release then?

Also I still haven't seen an instance of the live ball physics making the dribbler lose the ball. Has this been completely removed? I kind of liked it just because it made you be a little more careful when pushing the tempo.

1. Absolute RS dribbling controls are a must. Shouldn't have to move the RS 20 different directions to pull of the same move just because the player is facing different directions.

2. The computer should just determine if a bounce pass is appropriate. Think about actually throwing a chest pass. You push the ball towards your teammate with both hands. Think about throwing a bounce pass. You push the ball towards your teammate with both hands. The only difference is the angle in which you push your hands out. And in real-life, since you rarely pass the ball to someone that is right next to you, the difference in the angle in your arms between a bounce pass and a chest pass has got to be between 10-25%. Using the LT (or L2) to do a bounce pass would be like saying that in real-life you use two hands to throw a chest pass, and you use one hand and one foot to throw a bounce pass . The motion in both passes is the same, therefore the button combination should be the same, the computer is more than capable of determining which is better. More "control" does not always mean better simulation. Basketball is a game of reaction, where you don't think, you feel (do). You don't actually acknowledge the thought of "there is a defender that is in the way of this chest pass, so I need to pass it so that it bounces parallel with his feet, and skips by him to my teammate." Your brain makes all of those calcuations instantly, and you usually react appropriately.

The game should not be treated like Mortal Combat, where button combinations result in moves. With the theory of LT+Pass = Bounce Pass, it would be logical that there then should be something like LT+LB+Pass = Lob Pass. And then there will be LT+LB+LS Swirl+Pass = Behind the back pass. See how that becomes a problem? These consoles (and PCs) are more than capable of analyzing who it's being passed to, and make the appropriate decision.

Last edited by agiles2303 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why didn't they make it intuitive. Players will have to learn moves instead of largely feeling the move - aka what makes sense based on the movement.

Did anyone notice any improvement in the fast break logic and alley oop animations? Those were two of the biggest problems I had with 2k12.

Again..... how is double-tapping RS to the right intuitive for an in-and-out? An in-and-out is a move that is partially left then partially right. Or partially right then partially left depending upon which hand you start with. Not right then right again or left then left again. Take a real basketball, I want you to try and do an in-and-out, with your right hand, by only moving to the right. It's simply impossibe.

It's great that doing a between the legs is controlled by "going towards the off hand and the players back" except for the fact that the players back could be pointing a hundred different directions. When I do betwen the legs in real life, my perspective is always the same. No matter which way I'm facing I do the same motion to get the ball between my legs, because my perspective doesn't change. But in 2K I may have to push the stick towards 7:30 to do a between the legs when the player is closest to my sideline by the 3-point line, but then to complete the EXACT same between the legs move when the player is at the far baseline I would have to push the stick to 10:30. Just because the player is facing me, instead of facing away from me, I have to try and figure out how to do the same move a different way? The controller doesn't rotate in respect to the player I'm controlling. It faces the same direction at all times, because it is attached to me. Therefore between the legs to the left hand should ALWAYS be, push towards 7:30, between legs to right should always be 4:30.

Again not intuitive.

Or doing a behind the back. When the player has their back to me, I accomplish this by pulling down. When the player has their right arm facing me, I have to push to the left. The same move could have 360 directions to push. As the player rotates within a 3D environment of 360 degrees. Even though my actions control the player, my perspective is not that of the direction the player is facing. It is that of the controller, because that is what I'm getting sensory information from through my fingers.

Not intuitive.

Last edited by agiles2303 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As Jao said, ABSOLUTE RS IS A MUST!!

Anyone else dislike the fact that when the players pass they almost always raise the ball above their head with their passing motion? I just watched a LD2K gameplay video and noticed it happens very often. Not very realistic, imo.

Just played it like 5 times. Awesome stuff so far. First game i was OKC, i tried to use some of KD's signature skills, and I noticed that the dead-eye one was really useful. And then i tried to cross up LeBron with the new stick configuration and it just slipped outta his hands. WTF?! lol so next game i switched to the Heat, and I noticed they put Battier at PF, when Lbj actually played PF during the Finals.... Lol So that means Ibaka was guarding Battier. So Battier gets the ball from an Lbj pass, Shoots it up, gets fouled, and splash baby! The motion was awesome he was like got pushed and lunged the ball forward. Plain awesome. Then another cool thing, i played as Miami again and it seems Wade has a new package, cause he was doing windmills and i know he couldnt do those in 2k12. And at the end, when i tossed up the ball, it was a one handed motion. Awesome. Cant wait for 2k13.

agiles2303, I appreciate your detailed analysis, and some of the stuff you mention do seem counter-intuitive. Just two notes:

1) The game can decide to bounce-pass for you, if it feels it's the appropriate pass in that situation, even if you use just the A button to simply "Pass". It's a context-aware passing mechanism, not an "anything but a bounce pass" button. The LT+A combination is there if you SPECIFICALLY want to do a bounce pass, and not let the game decide whether that's appropriate. I feel they've hit the perfect balance for that. And I don't mind the additional control, like being able to lob pass on demand, if they decide to add that, as long as the A button keeps working just like the X button works, no matter the fact that we have the Shot Stick. In summary, if A just keeps selecting a pass out of the player's arsenal automatically depending on the situation, but I can still override the one the game would pick if I want to do a specific one by using a button combination, that's perfect for me. The way they implemented bounce passing as an override, and not just as a completely separate choice, I feel does exactly that.

2) Please don't double- and triple-post. When you have something you want to add to your previous post and nobody else has replied after you yet, use the EDIT button on the top-right of your post.

I am officially done with reading about the game. Nothing i read anymore impresses or excites me, it just takes away the elements of surprise. I just want to play the damn game already. October 2nd couldn't come fast enough.

i downloaded it and played it on tuesday when it dropped. i had a nice first game vs the cpu to get acquainted with the controls. had a second game and had some trouble passing the ball, but nothing major. noticed offensive rebounds and putbacks were a bit too common for my liking.

then i went online. it took at least 5 minutes to get a game each time. it would go search for a game endlessly and i had to keep quitting and getting back in until it got me a game. had a decent first game except that the opponent was able to inbound the ball to westbrook and turbo for a dunk on the other end. that should never happen in a game, i'm sorry. i still don't like how the game doesn't switch you to the PG automatically, there's so much chaos defensively after a made bucket, especially with the camera and how all the players are off-screen. then the alley-oops of the glass happened. the next guy spammed it to hell. i would have cpu teammates beat defenders on backdoors and hit them but they'd take too long to catch the ball to be effective. offensive rebounds are pointless as players take waay too long to put the ball back up for a layup. i really liked the quick layup animations in Live 10. Fastbreaks with Lebron & Wade are negated by the players slowing to do catch & pass animations. then i played as the thunder in the next game. still too many fancy one-foot shots, floaters, and leaners, probably in my haste to capitalize quickly on defensive mistakes. i had to stop before i threw my controller at the tv.

front end graphics and transitions consisted of one half NBA All-Star 2008 logo, one half equalizer bar. if i see another equalizer bar, i am going to pull out my hair.

i've been a fan of the baseline camera ever since Live went to it (in 2005 or 06), it just makes more sense to me. you get to see plays developing from the player's perspective. if i wanted to watch a game from a tv angle, i'd watch an nba game on tv.

and LOL @ the 1st verse of Mercy being almost completely bleeped out