Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:00 pm
This needs to be bolded
Everything you said was great and well put together. I personally agree with everything you mentioned, I just thought I'd clear a few things up for you.
The Patchers need for fame. People are going to want to be the best at something. Whether it's sports or modifying a videogame. For me personally, the main reason I didn't give permission for people to use my street courts was because I was already making my full fledged street mod. So I didn't want to give up the "exclusiveness" of my courts in my own mod. I didn't want someone to take my courts, make a street mod, and beat me to the punch, if you will, yet I still wanted to release stuff to the community.
The Chinese situation, if i remember correctly, went down like this. Group A, EGS (i think) created the first iff editor. Then 3DM (who cracked 2k9 but refused to release it, lol) also started making an editor. "Santa" leaks out the EGS iff editor here. And a while after, Showfom finally releases the good 3DM tool. They were competing groups, I don't know over what, but it is a completely different type of community.
Generally, when someone gives credit to a patcher in their post, how am I supposed to know they didn't ask permission first. I can't check every patch on here. So the only way I find out is if the original patch maker says something.
The way I do things is if you claim that this is your patch, deny using someone else's as a base when proven wrong, and throw a hissy fit. Fuck off, go somewhere else. They are getting banned. However, if someone gives credit, gets caught, and the original patcher still wants to have disipline against the "stealer" who is sorry. They will get a warning, download taken down, and locked topic. That is it.
Again, a simple work around for this. Let's say I make a street court for 2k9. But I'm not giving permission for it. You can create your street roster, link to my post for the court, and then create a batch file that copies and renames it for your roster. But again, then you have the issue of importing your own textures and crap without my permission.
It's common courtesy to ask for permission, but it's also common courtesy to allow everyone to use your patches.
Everything you said was great and well put together. I personally agree with everything you mentioned, I just thought I'd clear a few things up for you.
The Patchers need for fame. People are going to want to be the best at something. Whether it's sports or modifying a videogame. For me personally, the main reason I didn't give permission for people to use my street courts was because I was already making my full fledged street mod. So I didn't want to give up the "exclusiveness" of my courts in my own mod. I didn't want someone to take my courts, make a street mod, and beat me to the punch, if you will, yet I still wanted to release stuff to the community.
The Chinese situation, if i remember correctly, went down like this. Group A, EGS (i think) created the first iff editor. Then 3DM (who cracked 2k9 but refused to release it, lol) also started making an editor. "Santa" leaks out the EGS iff editor here. And a while after, Showfom finally releases the good 3DM tool. They were competing groups, I don't know over what, but it is a completely different type of community.
Generally, when someone gives credit to a patcher in their post, how am I supposed to know they didn't ask permission first. I can't check every patch on here. So the only way I find out is if the original patch maker says something.
The way I do things is if you claim that this is your patch, deny using someone else's as a base when proven wrong, and throw a hissy fit. Fuck off, go somewhere else. They are getting banned. However, if someone gives credit, gets caught, and the original patcher still wants to have disipline against the "stealer" who is sorry. They will get a warning, download taken down, and locked topic. That is it.
Again, a simple work around for this. Let's say I make a street court for 2k9. But I'm not giving permission for it. You can create your street roster, link to my post for the court, and then create a batch file that copies and renames it for your roster. But again, then you have the issue of importing your own textures and crap without my permission.
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:12 am
That all sounds very fair JaoSming, especially the actions you take. No complaint there.
The issue with the street courts is something I hadn't considered and it makes the issue more grey rather then black or white. Because being beaten to the punch after all that time spent, wouldn't be a nice feeling. The batch file is like a loophole to the rule, but is not ideal for someone who has no experience with patching. Patches should be easy to use for a patcher to install, or also someone who isn't good with computers. That's why texmod fails to an extent (but it's better then nothing). I guess sometimes there is no easy solution.
Finally I want to say thank you to all the work you do, as I am sure when you first picked up your first NBA game policing "stealers" isn't what you had in mind. You and the others (Andrew, pdub etc) give up your time to keep this place running smoothly, and it's not an easy job to deal with this stuff all the time. Thanks for reading my bible sized post and responding.
The issue with the street courts is something I hadn't considered and it makes the issue more grey rather then black or white. Because being beaten to the punch after all that time spent, wouldn't be a nice feeling. The batch file is like a loophole to the rule, but is not ideal for someone who has no experience with patching. Patches should be easy to use for a patcher to install, or also someone who isn't good with computers. That's why texmod fails to an extent (but it's better then nothing). I guess sometimes there is no easy solution.
Finally I want to say thank you to all the work you do, as I am sure when you first picked up your first NBA game policing "stealers" isn't what you had in mind. You and the others (Andrew, pdub etc) give up your time to keep this place running smoothly, and it's not an easy job to deal with this stuff all the time. Thanks for reading my bible sized post and responding.
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:22 am
dude, you're one of the good ones 
thank you for making your voice heard
realizing that CFs, tats, and stuff are all in 1 file for 2k9. if you make new tats and want to use a CF but cant get permission, maybe you can have the original poster use your tats and re-release it
thank you for making your voice heardrealizing that CFs, tats, and stuff are all in 1 file for 2k9. if you make new tats and want to use a CF but cant get permission, maybe you can have the original poster use your tats and re-release it
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:56 pm
It's posts like WebberF1's I really like reading. Yes, it's pretty long but it's in posts like this that we find out about what others think, what they want to say and hopefully learn from what they want to share.
I'd like to share my views regarding this as well. First, I'd like to say that I agree with WebberF1 totally that we should all be here to make the game better for the community. Like he said, it still is 2K's property. The only reason we get away with patching is coz we don't charge money for what we do. We don't benefit from this. What we do is all for fun, a hobby. Knowing people use and appreciate our work is the best reward we can get.
But here's the sad part. When people try to pass off someone else's hard work as their own, that's when the fun part ends for the original patcher. We don't want every Narek, Migo, or Urh (just to name a few of the best) to just stop patching coz of cases like this. What happens when they decide to stop patching, then the whole community suffers too coz they lost some great patchers. A simple credit would have done the job. It's from these kind of people that I think our admin is trying to protect patchers from. It's not just all about what the community needs and what it wants. Sometimes the community also has to be vigilant with regards to these kind of people to protect those who try to make the game better for them as well.
2K9 ---> Patcher A ---> Patcher B
I think everyone here knows we all are modifying 2K. Right? So, when "Patcher A" modifies the original file, everyone knows it, even if "Patcher A" does not give credit to 2K. It's a given fact. But when "Patcher B" decides to smudge an area on "Patcher A's" work, coz he was too lazy to make his own without giving credit, those who do not know it belonged to "Patcher A" originally, will think it was "Pacher B's" original work. This could then be very annoying and frustrating for "Patcher A" knowing someone else got credit for all his hard work. Suddenly it becomes "Patcher B's" original work. Would you honestly be happy if someone suddenly got recognized because of your hard work without giving you any credit? I know I will feel bad. Not because someone modified and made my mod better, but because the hard work I put making my mod suddenly became someone else's own hard work.
2K9 -----------------> Patcher B
With regards to permission issues, that really depends on the patcher. I used to allow people to modify my work without my permission, to save us both the trouble of having to pm me then reply to them regarding permission requests. A simple credit is all I ask from people who want to modify my work. But since our admin made a rule on getting permission first, then I have to follow it, (even if I have a choice not to). Why? coz it will help make our admin's job easier to ban stubborn and wacko stealers. If it will help keep order in here, then I'm for it.
As for the patches not to be included in someone elses bigger mod, I think it's pretty clear why. It's for us to keep track of our work and others work with ease. One excuse less for stealers to claim they did not know or pretend they did not know where they got it. I think this applies to roster mods most. Let me get things clear first before I get violent reactions from roster patchers. I don't have anything against them or their roster mods. I have very high respect for you guys. It's just that I don't see the point of including courts, jerseys or cfs that are available for download in different patcher's thread as well. That I realized only now. It saves people time downloading a very big mod too. I hope I make sense. Like our admin said, a simple work around would be to give a link to the the post for the files they think the community needs for their mods to work better.
I just wanted share my views. Hope I didn't offend anybody. Peace! Thanks to our admins for keeping things in order here.
I'd like to share my views regarding this as well. First, I'd like to say that I agree with WebberF1 totally that we should all be here to make the game better for the community. Like he said, it still is 2K's property. The only reason we get away with patching is coz we don't charge money for what we do. We don't benefit from this. What we do is all for fun, a hobby. Knowing people use and appreciate our work is the best reward we can get.
But here's the sad part. When people try to pass off someone else's hard work as their own, that's when the fun part ends for the original patcher. We don't want every Narek, Migo, or Urh (just to name a few of the best) to just stop patching coz of cases like this. What happens when they decide to stop patching, then the whole community suffers too coz they lost some great patchers. A simple credit would have done the job. It's from these kind of people that I think our admin is trying to protect patchers from. It's not just all about what the community needs and what it wants. Sometimes the community also has to be vigilant with regards to these kind of people to protect those who try to make the game better for them as well.
2K9 ---> Patcher A ---> Patcher B
I think everyone here knows we all are modifying 2K. Right? So, when "Patcher A" modifies the original file, everyone knows it, even if "Patcher A" does not give credit to 2K. It's a given fact. But when "Patcher B" decides to smudge an area on "Patcher A's" work, coz he was too lazy to make his own without giving credit, those who do not know it belonged to "Patcher A" originally, will think it was "Pacher B's" original work. This could then be very annoying and frustrating for "Patcher A" knowing someone else got credit for all his hard work. Suddenly it becomes "Patcher B's" original work. Would you honestly be happy if someone suddenly got recognized because of your hard work without giving you any credit? I know I will feel bad. Not because someone modified and made my mod better, but because the hard work I put making my mod suddenly became someone else's own hard work.
2K9 -----------------> Patcher B
With regards to permission issues, that really depends on the patcher. I used to allow people to modify my work without my permission, to save us both the trouble of having to pm me then reply to them regarding permission requests. A simple credit is all I ask from people who want to modify my work. But since our admin made a rule on getting permission first, then I have to follow it, (even if I have a choice not to). Why? coz it will help make our admin's job easier to ban stubborn and wacko stealers. If it will help keep order in here, then I'm for it.
As for the patches not to be included in someone elses bigger mod, I think it's pretty clear why. It's for us to keep track of our work and others work with ease. One excuse less for stealers to claim they did not know or pretend they did not know where they got it. I think this applies to roster mods most. Let me get things clear first before I get violent reactions from roster patchers. I don't have anything against them or their roster mods. I have very high respect for you guys. It's just that I don't see the point of including courts, jerseys or cfs that are available for download in different patcher's thread as well. That I realized only now. It saves people time downloading a very big mod too. I hope I make sense. Like our admin said, a simple work around would be to give a link to the the post for the files they think the community needs for their mods to work better.
I just wanted share my views. Hope I didn't offend anybody. Peace! Thanks to our admins for keeping things in order here.
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:14 pm
i enjoyed reading this too...great posts guys...
i agree with most of what i read... and wont bother quoting it...
just wanted to give my opinion on Mir's last statement : "It's just that I don't see the point of including courts, jerseys or cfs that are available for download in different patcher's thread as well. "
I do because I work on a oldschool mod : im using oldschool jerseys + oldschool CFs and some oldschool courts
i tried to give full credits to all the people's work i will be including in the begining of my thread... but its hell to ask permission for 60 CFs + 10 jerseys to many different patchers individually... Hell i dont even remember who's magic johnson im using... so i credit all oldschool CF making patcher hopefully:)
of course big shoes or current jerseys and CFs or courts updates i wont include, because it up to the users to take them themselves from the patcher they prefer...
why i wanna include someone work ? because artest in the pacers doesnt look the same as in the rockets... for example...
and i personally think that a mod installation must be as user friendly as possible...
I believe Including somebody else's untouched work in a roster should be allowed as long as credit is given of course... but i might forget some credits...
but anyway if a patcher recognises his work in a roster...he should be happy he sees it:) just like when i see some of my dornas in some cf previews...
As far as perfecting somebody else's CF or court or jersey or roster should always be released with permission given ONLY !
Other than that I feel 2K should steal most of nlsc's work:)
Thx to the admins of the best NBA patching site for enforcing rules + Patchers for allowing others to use their work when credit is given...
i agree with most of what i read... and wont bother quoting it...
just wanted to give my opinion on Mir's last statement : "It's just that I don't see the point of including courts, jerseys or cfs that are available for download in different patcher's thread as well. "
I do because I work on a oldschool mod : im using oldschool jerseys + oldschool CFs and some oldschool courts
i tried to give full credits to all the people's work i will be including in the begining of my thread... but its hell to ask permission for 60 CFs + 10 jerseys to many different patchers individually... Hell i dont even remember who's magic johnson im using... so i credit all oldschool CF making patcher hopefully:)
of course big shoes or current jerseys and CFs or courts updates i wont include, because it up to the users to take them themselves from the patcher they prefer...
why i wanna include someone work ? because artest in the pacers doesnt look the same as in the rockets... for example...
and i personally think that a mod installation must be as user friendly as possible...
I believe Including somebody else's untouched work in a roster should be allowed as long as credit is given of course... but i might forget some credits...
but anyway if a patcher recognises his work in a roster...he should be happy he sees it:) just like when i see some of my dornas in some cf previews...As far as perfecting somebody else's CF or court or jersey or roster should always be released with permission given ONLY !
Other than that I feel 2K should steal most of nlsc's work:)
Thx to the admins of the best NBA patching site for enforcing rules + Patchers for allowing others to use their work when credit is given...
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:04 am
tnt23 wrote:i tried to give full credits to all the people's work i will be including in the begining of my thread... but its hell to ask permission for 60 CFs + 10 jerseys to many different patchers individually... Hell i dont even remember who's magic johnson im using... so i credit all oldschool CF making patcher hopefully:)
of course big shoes or current jerseys and CFs or courts updates i wont include, because it up to the users to take them themselves from the patcher they prefer...
I believe Including somebody else's untouched work in a roster should be allowed as long as credit is given of course... but i might forget some credits...
I hear you.
By the way, I was referring to CFs, Courts, Jerseys, etc... that were installed together with the game, whether current or old school, but were just modified by patchers. That's why i said, I think, there is no point for them to be included in the rosters coz they already are in the game in the first place. I don't think there is a different version of Artest in the game so basically there is a need for him to be created in his Pacer days with a new iff file & no. Some CFs have different versions in the game like Ewing, AI, Kareem, Kidd etc... They are already in the game. So basically, you only need to include those that aren't originally in the game like Artest in his Pacer days. That's what I was referring to, just to make things clear. It really is hell to ask permission from different patchers.
That's why I think posting a link to their thread would be much easier and won't be as time consuming, waiting for permission. I already placed all my links in the first post so users can find them easily. I think it's a different thing when you see your dornas in CF previews coz CF patchers do not include dornas or jerseys in their release.
I'm happy people use & appreciate my work. Like I said, It's the best reward. But it's another thing when you see it being modified or released by someone without being given any credit at all.It's still your call on how you handle things with respect to your mods. As long as you give proper credit.
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:46 am
MiR, i hear u too bro as im on finalising the project i dont know how ill proceed yet... but for 2K10 i will make a excell file and hopefully keep track of everybody CFs im using ...
btw some legends missing in your first post no ?
as im on finalising the project i dont know how ill proceed yet... but for 2K10 i will make a excell file and hopefully keep track of everybody CFs im using ...btw some legends missing in your first post no ?
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:25 pm
Well i will say one thing that is most common in patch stealing sometimes people download some cf's from various patchers:MIR,NAREKjAN,Bbmylove or any other patcher
And they combine their cf's: i think this thing is in a lot of forums like: example: NAREKjAN made D-Wade And Bbmylove made D-Wade, so people try to combine their works to make them ''non-patch stealing'', like giving D-Wade some textures from NAREKjAN and then giving some textures From Bbmylove and making it ''yours'', this thing is very hard to see, because sometimes it does look similar, but they sharpen the textures,give them so scars,freckles or any other shit so they could make the cf be ''his'',and not saying that he combined or even used something as a base from that cf, i think this is one of the most patch stealing problems, because i know that people try to combine something, making it better, but i think, when you're making the stuff by yourself, it gives you patching experience for other stuff, like making headshapes,alligning stuff, so the face color match the default color and all, i know this is a big problem in all patching forums, so it's hard to see,but yeah this is one of the biggest patch stealing problem, but if people do that well we can't change their minds, without banning them or give warnings or suspensions or any other stuff, i think i wrote a lot but yeah i had a lot of stuff in my mind with this thing haha
And they combine their cf's: i think this thing is in a lot of forums like: example: NAREKjAN made D-Wade And Bbmylove made D-Wade, so people try to combine their works to make them ''non-patch stealing'', like giving D-Wade some textures from NAREKjAN and then giving some textures From Bbmylove and making it ''yours'', this thing is very hard to see, because sometimes it does look similar, but they sharpen the textures,give them so scars,freckles or any other shit so they could make the cf be ''his'',and not saying that he combined or even used something as a base from that cf, i think this is one of the most patch stealing problems, because i know that people try to combine something, making it better, but i think, when you're making the stuff by yourself, it gives you patching experience for other stuff, like making headshapes,alligning stuff, so the face color match the default color and all, i know this is a big problem in all patching forums, so it's hard to see,but yeah this is one of the biggest patch stealing problem, but if people do that well we can't change their minds, without banning them or give warnings or suspensions or any other stuff, i think i wrote a lot but yeah i had a lot of stuff in my mind with this thing haha
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:46 am
Patch Stealing is BAD.
If a patch in NLSC is distributed in other forums, and this new-comer shares them here back to us (modified or not)....would this user be banned, or should we analyze it first? If he is really innocent, how do we know if he really is?
Solution: Give a warning to the user and explain. and let him remove it. If he insists, he will be banned.
If a new user comes and says, "you stole my work"! Which one should we believe? The older member or the new comer...since we cannot really tell which one is the author.
Solution: Stop both parties from producing (that particular) work in this forum. Lets keep this forum safe and peaceful. Real Authors can always produce new stuff, copycats would always be delayed in releases.
If a patch in NLSC is distributed in other forums, and this new-comer shares them here back to us (modified or not)....would this user be banned, or should we analyze it first? If he is really innocent, how do we know if he really is?
Solution: Give a warning to the user and explain. and let him remove it. If he insists, he will be banned.
If a new user comes and says, "you stole my work"! Which one should we believe? The older member or the new comer...since we cannot really tell which one is the author.
Solution: Stop both parties from producing (that particular) work in this forum. Lets keep this forum safe and peaceful. Real Authors can always produce new stuff, copycats would always be delayed in releases.
Re: Patch Stealing and You, How to Get Banned
Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:17 pm
JaoSming wrote:R4zoR, that total courts thing i made was an open source thing i released for everyone without needing to give me permission
and I am aware of the DvoC situation
Let me emphasize one thing, the creator of the original patch usually has the say for a ban or not, so thank you for bringing this stuff up to me, but Klaidux or Macgyver666 needs to be the one to contact me for the case you provided
Oh I'm so sorry for what happen, I truely didnt think it was a big deal, I repeat I may be late but I'm sorry, I was so busy with trying to get my college transition together that wen I took a break, I missed a lot of postS, I AM VERY SORRY PEOPLE, EVEN THOUGH, I'M A BIT LATE, KLAIDUX AND MACGYVER666, I WISH YOU GUYS WOULD HAVE CONTACTED MY THROUGH EMAIL, AND WE COULD HAVE SETTLED IT, ONCE AGAIN SORRY, ME STEALING ANYTHING IS THE LAST THING I WANT TO DO.
