2013 NBA Finals: San Antonio Spurs (2) vs Miami Heat (1)

[[Q]]

ABC ... showed how to create a real pre-/half/post-game show with ninth-level NBA experts Michael Wilbon and Magic Johnson.

who the fuck is this jesse williams guy they kept promoting at halftime?

[kingjames23]

The Heat won the Championship fair and square. there are no asterisks. A Danny Granger or a Derrick Rose may have derailed them, but unless you have a time machine or have mastered travel to parallel dimensions you can never know for sure that it would have made any difference. What is, IS. Should we put an asterisk on the Detroit Pistons beating the Lakers back in 90? Injuries to Magic Johnson and Byron Scott meant the Pistons had little opposition and swept through the finals. How about in 04 when a knee injury kept Karl Malone from suiting up for game 5 for the Lakers against the Pistons thus leaving Shaq pretty much as the only big on the floor for LA.? What if that injury didnt happen?" What if Malone had a monster game and inspired LA to come back and win the series? what if WHAT IF! now, being a Lakers fan all my life, i don't call those titles by Detroit "asterisk" titles. The fact of the matter is, Detroit won those titles fair and square. Every season has had injuries to notable players, and every one of those players might have been what their team needed to put them on top. We will never know because it simply did not happen! So quit dogging on MIAMI for not "really" winning a title. All that matters is the score when the clock hits 0.00, 4 out of 7 times. congratz to the Heat on their hard fought and well deserved victory.

also...

comparing Duncan to Kobe or Lebron/ Kobe to Jordan is ludicrous. first of all, when Jordan played, defense was more physical. theres no way to know how the current crop of players would respond to the rules resetting back to the way they were in Jordan's heyday unless the rules did in fact change and allow for more physical play. Its like comparing pre shot clock players to post shotclock, pre 3 point line shooters to post 3 point line shooters. Would a Bill Russel teleported to todays NBA play at the same level? no. He would be physically dominated by much bigger/skilled bigmen and wouldn't get 20 boards a game because the pace of the game has slowed considerably while shooting accuracy has gone up. Wait, I can't make this argument can i? Because as i already stated "What if?" and "What is" are 2 different things.

besides Duncan doesnt even play the same position as Kobe so how can you compare 2 players who are nothing alike? All you can really compare is team play, and in one year or another, one team was better than the other. Perhaps one has had one or 2 better years than the other... but that doesnt diminish what one or the other has accomplished. Jordan was the greatest of his era and for a short time Kobe was the greatest until Lebron finally overshadowed him. Its inevitable that times will change. Players hit their prime while others start to lose the battle with time. Until a career is finished, a player retired (Looking at Lebron and Kobe) you simply cannot compare their career to Jordan's.

and another argument that just makes me sick... that Lebron didn't do it himself. This guy carried a weak ass Cavs team to the finals the year before he left. They came back the year after without Lebron and won how many games? Yeah, thats what I thought. He did the best he could with what pieces could be put around him. In an era of superteams with multiple allstar players... Do the Heat REALLY have some kind of unfair advantage? Jordan had Pippen, Rodman and was surrounded by great jumpshooters and roleplayers. The object of building any franchise is to put the best possible team on the floor right? Magic, Kareem, Worthy? Bird, Mchale, Parish? Kobe, Shaq? Duncan, Ginobili, Parker? Garnett, Pierce, Allen? I suppose you would say they all DID IT themselves? get outta here with that crap. Guess what? while you are a ninja behind a keyboard in your mom's basement... Every damn player i mentioned is or was a champion at some point and haters can't ever take that away from them. So go ahead and cry about it.

[benji]

now, being a Lakers fan all my life

Right, like somebody named "kingjames23" who does nothing but tear down a great one like Kobe Bryant in order to lift up the joke loser that is LeBron James is a lifelong Lakers fan.

Do the Heat REALLY have some kind of unfair advantage? Jordan had Pippen, Rodman and was surrounded by great jumpshooters and roleplayers. The object of building any franchise is to put the best possible team on the floor right? Magic, Kareem, Worthy? Bird, Mchale, Parish? Kobe, Shaq? Duncan, Ginobili, Parker? Garnett, Pierce, Allen? I suppose you would say they all DID IT themselves? get outta here with that crap.

You could rely on any one of those players except maybe Rodman to take a clutch shot and win a basketball game. You could rely on all of them to have a big time game when the team needs it and provide leadership.

You can't do that with LeBron. You can never know when he'll just give up in an early round like his final season in Cleveland. You'll never know if he'll run off to play with and hide behind other All-Stars. Or even after that spend an entire Finals hiding in the corner scared of the big stage like he did against the Mavericks. All while blaming others for his failures. All things a true leader and winner like Kobe Bryant would NEVER do.

[koberulz]

ABC ... showed how to create a real pre-/half/post-game show with ninth-level NBA experts Michael Wilbon and Magic Johnson.

who the fuck is this jesse williams guy they kept promoting at halftime?

They're not promoting him, he's promoting the phone. But yeah, who the fuck is he and who thought that was a good idea? "Meet me back here at half time"? Where the fuck do you think I'm going?

Opted to watch the game. What a waste of a day.

[benji]

Grey's Anatomy actor.

CORPORATE SYNERGY

phpBB [video]

[Jackal]

Awesome final game, was close the whole time. Congrats to the Heat, monster game by Lebron.

A real shame for Timmy D, much pleasure watching Leonard.

[shadowgrin]

I like how people rationalize things with long rants that denigrate true winners like Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, and Kobe Bryant just because their idol has less rings than those mentioned true winners who never quit on their original team.

Red Auerbach retires from coaching and no more Bob Cousy, Bill Russell didn't quit on the Celtics instead became playing coach.

Pistons handing down Jordan's ass year after year, he didn't leave the Bulls to join Barkley or a winner in Magic.

Kobe kicked Shaq out of LA because Kobe wants to handle the pressure of being the main guy and he remained with the Lakers despite those losing seasons of rebuilding.

LeBron gets beat up by the Celtics what did he do, he quits on his team and joins a proven winner in Wade because LeBron can't handle the responsibility and pressure of leading your team past obstacles.


On the bright side LeBron now has the same amount of rings as Adam Morrison and Joel Anthony finally avenged the loss of Darko's Pistons to the Spurs in 2005.

[NovU]

Summary:

LeBron: Good bye Kobrick. Hello Jordumb.
Wade: Sup Kobrick.
Spoelstra: LoL, Pop.

[Jackal]

I didn't bother reading the rants or anything but I still think it's a bitch move by those three instead of playing against each other (lol at Bosh being in the same convo), it just doesn't fit in with my idea of being competitive like Magic/Bird/Jordan were.

But that's besides the point, they won this year so now the people of Miami can pretend they all love basketball for a few days.

[RedPhazon8]

The Heat won the Championship fair and square. there are no asterisks. A Danny Granger or a Derrick Rose may have derailed them, but unless you have a time machine or have mastered travel to parallel dimensions you can never know for sure that it would have made any difference. What is, IS. Should we put an asterisk on the Detroit Pistons beating the Lakers back in 90? Injuries to Magic Johnson and Byron Scott meant the Pistons had little opposition and swept through the finals. How about in 04 when a knee injury kept Karl Malone from suiting up for game 5 for the Lakers against the Pistons thus leaving Shaq pretty much as the only big on the floor for LA.? What if that injury didnt happen?" What if Malone had a monster game and inspired LA to come back and win the series? what if WHAT IF! now, being a Lakers fan all my life, i don't call those titles by Detroit "asterisk" titles. The fact of the matter is, Detroit won those titles fair and square. Every season has had injuries to notable players, and every one of those players might have been what their team needed to put them on top. We will never know because it simply did not happen! So quit dogging on MIAMI for not "really" winning a title. All that matters is the score when the clock hits 0.00, 4 out of 7 times. congratz to the Heat on their hard fought and well deserved victory.

You can't honestly say that beating injury riddled teams is on the same level as beating teams at full strength. Regardless if you win have a second ring for it, you're still getting it while teams are no where close to the form they were when they entered the season. You may be fine with the bottom line, but I would not be satisfied with beating on limping teams. (ultimately comes down to personal option if you have legit reasons)

[shadowgrin]

Wade is still nowhere close to Kobe's level.
5 rings > 3 rings.

Spo being handed down a core of good players in their prime is not the same as Pop having aging core players even if one of them is the greatest PF in NBA history.

[NovU]

Of course, now's a good time again to be whining how the Heat team shouldn't have been put together, on this very day. That's just being sore losers at their best.

Asterisks? Only thing that's askerisked are *Kobe's 2* Finals* MVP* for being the most pathetic Finals MVP in the history of Finals MVP in all sports.

This Heat team will go down as one of the best in our gen of basketball. The Bulls, Celtics, Spurs, and the Lakers had their own versions of dynasty era. It just so happens to be Heat's time now. Deal with it, haters.

[benji]

even if one of them is the greatest PF in NBA history.

After a disastrous loss like this I don't know if that claim is as easily defensible anymore. Rodman has more rings, Horace Grant has as many and without any asterisks plus he beat Duncan in 2001. Then there's Robert Horry who also beat Duncan a few times. Bill Russell would be a PF if he played during Duncan's first decade.

He never toppled Kobe when it mattered, let alone someone like Shaq.

When it looked like he might tie Kobe then the discussions of his greatness could have started, but after a collapse like this against this team and against LeBron James of all people, I think that is a real tarnish on a legacy. Especially in a game seven. Throw in one title was a lockout title and two others that never went through the most dominant player of the era in Kobe. (And brought Robert Horry along for the ride...sounds like what LeBron did in Miami hmmm...speaking of which one of those titles was OVER LeBron, so that's another asterisk right there.) Not to mention fewer All-Defensive First Teams than Kobe. Duncan looks a lot closer to Barkley, Malone, KG, etc. than he did after Game Five.

Duncan maybe gets an edge over two of those guys because he beat the best PG of all time (as well as Kobe) in 2003, but KG and his collusion assembled super team did beat Kobe in the Finals.

[hova-]

Deserved win and deserved title for the Heat. Whenever they needed a three they got one and LeBron as well as Wade finally had a game where they hit their shots from the perimetre.

About the injury riddled other teams: Well, that's just the NBA and I don't see it as a big problem. It maybe just shows that this Heat team is not there with any all-time top team that became champion, but then again my Mavs weren't either in 2011 and I still cheered my nuts out.

Although nobody likes to compare him to MJ I want to compare the development of the players. LeBron is 28 now, right? I guess he has learned a lot and the next two or three years he will be unstoppable because of the mixture and variety of his game. Reminds a bit of MJ, who also took some time to win it all and become the deadly player he was.

It will be very interesting to see the Spurs transitioning now. Leonard could be a star in the making if he developes some kind of leadership takeover mentality. He was sick in game 7 and the whole series. Clutch threes, three point plays, crashing the boards and playing defense.

Next thing is, I hope Dwyane Wade retires soon. I just hate Wade. His arrogant style, his performances, I just hate this guy. And then he is probably the third or second best SG in the history of modern NBA which makes me even hate him more, because I hate players that I hate to be good. So let's hope his decay starts soon.

Oh and about Bosh: there may be a lot of flaws in his game, but his game 7 performance was great. He did a very good job defending Duncan and he did not take away shots from LBJ or Wade who were clearly more into a rhythm. That's just clever - rather being the sidekick or even give other role players more shots just to win it all. He could have easily brick 15 shots this game. But he wanted to win it all.
He's still a homo - don't get me wrong. But sometimes even haters have to find kind words for the winners.

[Sauru]

No matter who wins tonight this series will go down as one of the greatest of all time two super teams going at it in a back to back battle for the trophy,in one decisive Game 7

you need to explain to me how this series is one of the best series of all time. the nba finals have had too many blowouts and was over all rather boring to watch. now the stanley cup finals have been exciting all the way through. 3 out of the 4 games have gone into overtime, cant wait to see how that one finishes.

anyway congrats to miami for doing exactly what everyone knew you would

[Sauru]

This Heat team will go down as one of the best in our gen of basketball. The Bulls, Celtics, Spurs, and the Lakers had their own versions of dynasty era. It just so happens to be Heat's time now. Deal with it, haters.

the heat could win a ring without the best teams all being injured. that sure would help in considering them great

[NovU]

What gives... really,

Injuries happen all the time, each and every year. Talent pool in today's league still is very deep and consists of quality players. How big of a factor is that to negate what the Heat have done in a historical perspective? That's just hating talk for idiotic haters. The bottomline is that, for most teams in the league, what the Heat achieved in last three seasons alone would have been a magnificient glory. 2 championships out of 3 trips to the Finals is a feat that only a few historically has enjoyed.

About the injury riddled other teams: Well, that's just the NBA and I don't see it as a big problem. It maybe just shows that this Heat team is not there with any all-time top team that became champion, but then again my Mavs weren't either in 2011 and I still cheered my nuts out.

First of all, I'm rather obliged to hear honest/somewhat-fair feedback on the Finals from a self proclaimed hater like yourself. LoL. Anyways, I find it interesting what it would have been like if those 2011 Mavericks were built with such quality from several years before to the date. Wouldn't they have competed in the Finals for couple more times at least? Toughest challenge in those period would have been the same ole Spurs and Lakers w/ Gasol(in West). And Dirk was so much unfortunate to have Jason Terry as the second best player on the team during all those years. Imagine now what if Dirk had somebody of Chandler/Gasol quality all along.

Next thing is, I hope Dwyane Wade retires soon. I just hate Wade. His arrogant style, his performances, I just hate this guy. And then he is probably the third or second best SG in the history of modern NBA which makes me even hate him more, because I hate players that I hate to be good. So let's hope his decay starts soon.

Don't worry. I don't think Micky will be able to keep the roster intact in a near future anyways. Probably the last of superstar team for awhile. In recent era, we had fun watching Lakers w/ Shaq,Karl,Payton, then the Celtics w/ wheelchair,KG,Ray, and lastly the current Heat. Not that superstars aren't going to find ways to play together, I just don't think it'll be the same anymore. So let's just enjoy(or hate even more in ur case, lol) what's probably last of em.

Oh and about Bosh: there may be a lot of flaws in his game, but his game 7 performance was great. He did a very good job defending Duncan and he did not take away shots from LBJ or Wade who were clearly more into a rhythm. That's just clever - rather being the sidekick or even give other role players more shots just to win it all. He could have easily brick 15 shots this game. But he wanted to win it all.
He's still a homo - don't get me wrong. But sometimes even haters have to find kind words for the winners.

Yep. I really liked what he did for the team in this series. Sure, Tim outplayed him but nobody else on the team was better at guarding Tim than Bosh. And he was aggressive on help D as well. In game 7, he never looked for his shots. He's such an unselfish player imo. A good teammate to have because he's a homo, not a crybaby like Dwight, and not a demanding ex-wife like Kobe.

[atlwarrior]

Wade has the heart of a warrior. He will recover from his injury and go back to averaging in b/t 23-25 ppg but he has put a lot of stress on his body over the years.

[Jackal]

The bottomline is that, for most teams in the league, what the Heat achieved in last three seasons alone would have been a magnificient glory. 2 championships out of 3 trips to the Finals is a feat that only a few historically has enjoyed.

I'm sure a lot of teams could do that if the best player in the NBA got together with perhaps the best SG in the NBA and another All-Star and got other surrounding pieces to follow them for peanuts in search of a ring.

[MJALLDAY]

1st championship was an asterisk championship, I'm calling this one the cripple bowl (No Kobe, Rose, Deng, Rondo, Westbrook, Granger)

[Andrew]

Does anyone else get the impression that Wilbon hates Bill Simmons with the fury of a thousand suns? Like there's some "they finally give me the show I deserve and this nobody INTERNET asshole has to sit over there and get all the love..." beef.

I get the feeling that Simmons isn't that popular with any of his fellow panelists. You can hear the restraint in their voices every time he interrupts them.

[SoF'nAwesome]

NovU, what are you still doing here homie? It's bomp bomp time! Don't try and justify in front of haters, even if LeBron wins 7 rings they will still have fuck "facts" to use and hate.

So, bugger off from the anti-hate community and pat yourself on the back for being a fan of the best NBA team

I'm sure a lot of teams could do that if the best player in the NBA got together with perhaps the best SG in the NBA and another All-Star and got other surrounding pieces to follow them for peanuts in search of a ring.

Isn't Kobe the best according to youse Lakers fanboys? Also, by any chance you referring to what the Lakers tried and failed to do this season?

[Stress Fracture]

Damn, Miami fans still getting butthurt. Come on, you've already won the title.

[Sauru]

miami fans are mad because everyone realizes that their second title(last year) came from teams being injured. this season there was also a ton of injures but i am not convinced that even if everyone was healthy they would have beat the heat. i am 100% positive that both the bulls and celtics would have beat the heat last season though if not for injuries. either way history will only remember them as champions. the celtics beat the lakers with an injured bynum at center then the laker turned around and beat the celtics when they had an injured perkins. injures happen but man the heat really have benefited from it more than any team i can remember. this year the heat themselves were not at 100%. the heat were the best and deserved it this year.

[kingjames23]

Benji I am and always will be a Laker fan, I am also a LeBron fan, a Jordan Fan, a Shaq fan, a Kobe fan, a Vince Carter fan even. So I am a fan of the teams those guys played for as well. Don't give me shit about loyalty, we are all free to like whoever we want. I have always hated the Spurs so naturally I would go against whoever matched up with them. Lakers had a shit year, so lets go HEAT!

The fact is about Lebron, he is still young and while he choked in the past he made it to the finals at a younger age than MJ ever did... He won his first and 2nd titles at the same ages that MJ did 27, 28. So he has already been to the finals 2 for times than Jordan at the same age. He is unselfish with the ball (his ONLY "fault") and he failed a few times because of it. He has confidence now and when he is rolling he is the best player in the game today, and he is already the greatest athlete to ever play. The kind of momentum he has now, his youth and confidence being on his side... he has the potential to match Kobe or Jordan title for title. when he has his 6th ring or maybe 7th... then you can all sit and spin.