Dee4Three wrote:So can somebody explain to me the "real player %" thing for shooting?
Doesn't this mean that it doesn't matter how you release it, it goes by the real players FG% (as it relates to its attributes?) Or am I misinterpreting it.
bluejaybrandon wrote:Dee4Three wrote:So can somebody explain to me the "real player %" thing for shooting?
Doesn't this mean that it doesn't matter how you release it, it goes by the real players FG% (as it relates to its attributes?) Or am I misinterpreting it.
That's exactly what it means. The idea is that Korver will shoot closer to his field goal percentage, while Roberson will shoot closer to his. If you're using the meter, in theory, someone could consistently stroke Roberson's threes if they got the timing down exactly.
Dee4Three wrote:But that takes skill out of the game, it makes the skill gap much smaller. Getting a green release every time is almost impossible, especially when the shot is contested. And, it still goes by the attributes when it's set to "timing".
Vicerex wrote:Dee4Three wrote:But that takes skill out of the game, it makes the skill gap much smaller. Getting a green release every time is almost impossible, especially when the shot is contested. And, it still goes by the attributes when it's set to "timing".
It doesn't take the skill out at all. What it does is make the game more realistic. Yes it is possible to learn a bad players shot release and master it, it's incredibly unrealistic and for us who are wanting a real simulation experience we see the shot meter as cheesing.
The real skill in the game is using real player % and knowing who and who should not take a shot in any given situation. It's knowing that there's always a chance no matter how open you are that you can miss (good NBA shooters miss open shots all the time). It's a skill in knowing who is guarding you and how close they are and knowing that it would not be wise to take that shot. It requires real knowledge of basketball and players which in itself is a skill.
I've played both ways and I got tired of using the shot meter years ago because having multiple players shooting 70% for a season is absurd. I'll take 40% over 70% any day because I have a passion for a realistic basketball experience.
If you want to use the shooting stick that's up to you, but it's best used in MyCareer/PvP. If you use shooting stick against the AI then it's far too easy to win. I for one don't enjoy going 82-0 every season, it's boring.
Vicerex wrote:If you knew how RNG works this wouldn't even be a discussion.
Let me break it down for you; both User Timing & Real Player % are affected by player ratings, who is guarding them and how open they are or are not. Yes this is true, however it goes a step further with Real Player %. For example say a player has an RNG of 60% (pretty high but I'm using this assuming it's a very good shooter) to make a wide open shot. Now add in a defender dropping it to 50%. Now let's say this defender is smothering you dropping it to 40%, then there's the factor of the defenders badges and ratings that could cripple your shot even more, someone like Kawhi and thus dropping your shot to 30%. So even with a very skilled shooter in this situation you're most likely not going to make this shot, this is where the knowledge steps in and being wary of your chances at all times.
User Timing is also affected this way, it will make the green bar smaller. However the difference is, whether using shot meter or not, if you still hit within that green on your release you will still make that shot. No matter who is guarding you or how smothering they are. It's not very hard to time a shot correctly, generally it's the apex of the shot regardless of who it is, so you don't need the meter to know that. In both modes in this situation you're considerably more likely to score via a well timed shot compared to only having a flat 30% chance.
Here's where it gets really deep though and why you have to be cautious of who is taking your shots. Let's say someone like Andre Roberson is shooting a 3. His RNG for a wide open shot may only be about 30% to begin with. So without even defending he's rarely going to make his shots. While with User Timing, even as small as the window is, you will always make more than 30% of your shots unless you simply aren't trying. So right out the gate you're far more handicapped with Real Player %. Now with adding in a good smothering defender he may drop below 10% making it a next to impossible shot to make. Those of us who have used Real Player % for a long time know that this is true, trying to shoot with someone like Roberson while being smothered is practically an impossible shot and it's pointless to even try (hence the knowledge factor). Again yes this affects the User Timing too, making a small window even smaller, but it's still easier to land in that window than it is to make a 0~10% RNG shot chance. The players sweet spot is the same regardless of how big the window is or not, if you can master the players apex then it completely negates the defensive mechanics which is why I call it cheese.
I understand what you're trying to say though, you feel like in the moment it's harder to focus on getting the correct release and when you do it's more satisfying. I'm not denying that, it does take skill. You do still need to be aware of who you are shooting with and who is guarding you, but it's simply not as prevalent as with Real Player %.
The reason I brought up my MMO experience is because it works the same way. Let's say a boss has a set of mechanics but no RNG factors. Once you master those mechanics it becomes a cake-walk or as we call it a "farm". As long as you work within those mechanics you will win every time without fail. However if it's a boss with added in RNG mechanics then no matter what you do, how flawlessly you play there's always that chance you just simply can get screwed. That to me is more fun because I love that chance of failure, it adds some threat to the game which in return makes it more fun. If there is no threat then it gets dull very quickly. So that is my experience with User Timing, it's challenging at first but once you learn your players apex it becomes very easy to score despite the games built in defensive mechanics. But with Real Player % I know in the back of my mind, no matter how good of a shooter I'm using, no matter how wide open I am, I can still miss that shot. That's satisfying to me because it's more realistic and that's what I'm here for is realism.
There is no such thing as User Timing in real life. Even if you perfect your form there will always be chances you miss your shots, this is simply reality. The same can't be said for in the game. If you master your players form in the game you will make around 70% of your shots, and that's being generous.
I didn't think I would have to get this technical to break it down, to me this is common logic. Yes it takes the timing skill out of the game, but it adds in a whole plethora of new factors to consider. Factors in which I believe outweigh the boon of negating the timing factor. Though personally I still time my shots regardless if it being necessary because it just feels right/smooth.
I'm not going to argue with a brick wall, you're set in your ways so even with this breakdown you will still argue against it. But despite that I wanted to write this out for others as well to explain the major differences because a lot of people wonder which is better.
TL;DR:
User Timing - Requires learning a players apex, then rinse & repeat.
Real Player % - Requires being wary of RNG, what factors lower your RNG and thus making a logical choice to shoot or not.
Uncle Drew wrote:Shady's sliders are pretty decent, better than default, but I think CPU steals are too high. They get at least 6-8 per game
ShadyMikeGaming wrote:As for the CPU stealing the ball this is user preference but I personally love the aggressive on-ball defense from the CPU....this year you HAVE to use the "protect basketball" mechanic when you are in front of elite defenders...its' a nice touch that I love but feel free to bump up the user "Ball security" slider if it bothers you!
Vicerex wrote:ShadyMikeGaming wrote:As for the CPU stealing the ball this is user preference but I personally love the aggressive on-ball defense from the CPU....this year you HAVE to use the "protect basketball" mechanic when you are in front of elite defenders...its' a nice touch that I love but feel free to bump up the user "Ball security" slider if it bothers you!
I agree! At first it was annoying but if you protect the ball you'll be fine. It definitely adds a new element and the more I play and get used to it, the more I like it.
Also not only does CPU FG% need to come down, but I think USER FG% might need a bump. I'm missing a lot, I mean a lot, of wide open shots with good shooters. Post isn't too horrible, Mid could use a slight bump, but user 3pt FG% for me has been atrocious. As I'm typing this I just finished a game where I shot 17% from 3 as a team. Oladipo went 0/7, Josh Hart went 1/9, Jeff Green 1/4, Sabonis 0/3, Royce O'Neale 0/4. I realize Green, Sabonis & O'Neale are only mediocre shooters, but both Hart & Oladipo are A-rated 3pt shooters, they should not be going a combined 1/16 especially considering over half of those were wide open.
Needless to say I'm really struggling to win games, my low FG% mixed with the CPU high FG%, it doesn't matter how good you play if your shots don't go in you're just going to lose.
Vicerex wrote:[ Image ]
This is after changing the sliders to 40/60 as you suggested.
As you can see the CPU is shooting more realistically now at 49%. However mines still pretty low (I was the Raptors by the way). It definitely helped me make shots while being closely guarded, but I'm still missing several wide open shots.
Another thing I noticed is how little 3's the CPU took. Only 10 the whole game? In the 3pt dominated NBA we have now days that's just not realistic. They had 64 points in the paint (PITP) which is a lot. For example, the league leader in PITP last year in the NBA was the Pelicans with 52 and the league average was more around 44.
On the bright side the fouls and turnovers for both teams weren't too bad for a change.
I think even with this slider change the CPU could use a small nerf in shooting sliders. User could use a decent boost in shooting sliders. As far as tendencies go the CPU should definitely be shooting more 3's, but you may not even be into the tendencies yet so that can wait.
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