Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

[JaoSming]

That's what I meant by it being "safe". What has changed? we'll have a semi-cowardly and awkward foil of a heel in the authority, they will continue to try and make Roman likeable with Dean at his side (and now seemingly trying to recreate the Daniel Bryan sympathy from the crowd), Bray is still 100% talk, and no other big feud blowoffs or developments really....story-wise, the structure hasn't changed nearly at all

But I don't want that to take away from the ring work. Loved Dean and KO, ADR and Roman was decent, 5v5 was fun, and the finals at least had decent selling/storytelling. Taker and Kane vs Wyatts went well (sooo happy Harper was chosen, probably my second or third favorite in the company behind KO and Cesaro).

I dunno. It was good in one way but same ol' shit in the other... They were given a great opportunity to shake things up with Seth's injury and instead I really do feel that everything we see tomorrow and until WM hype season will be very similar to what we've seen in the past X amount of months.

Or maybe I've been on Wreddit too much and listening to too much fantasy booking in podcasts.

[[Q]]

Whoa, didn't see that coming. I had forgotten that MITBwas a possibility.

I agree it was a very safe PPV. Although Seth's injury finally gave them the opportunity to use the MITB they'll probably just continue the Seth storyline with Shaemus in his place. Unlike Andrew, I actually really don't like Sheamus, as he's HHH's boy and he seems to only get pushed because of that

[koberulz]

Canceled the Network today.

[Andrew]

I dunno. It was good in one way but same ol' shit in the other... They were given a great opportunity to shake things up with Seth's injury and instead I really do feel that everything we see tomorrow and until WM hype season will be very similar to what we've seen in the past X amount of months.

Or maybe I've been on Wreddit too much and listening to too much fantasy booking in podcasts.

Nah, I'd say it's a fair call. At the same time though, the decision not to turn Ambrose or Reigns isn't necessarily a bad thing, as that would've been kind of predictable. A twist for the sake of having a twist can be worse than playing it safe, if the twist itself is somewhat predictable or even worse, downright illogical. Sometimes the best twist is no twist at all. But on the whole, it is a fair assessment. I'd have had Sheamus lose on the cash in, since it's rare to see that happen. Then you could have Sheamus as the new lackey, with HHH trying to get the title off Reigns, while also setting up other feuds for him for Wrestlemania 32.

[koberulz]

That, or not having him appear at all, would have been infinitely better than what they did.

[Andrew]

Sure, that would've been more than fine too. However, I do like the idea of the MITB winner failing on cash-ins more often.

[bigh0rt]

This went from an awful PPV, to the worst PPV I've watched in the 18 or so months I've been back watching. Just blah after blah after blah. Then, when Reigns vs Ambrose ends at 10:35, you could all but script the remainder of the show, putting the strap on yet another heel who isn't "he's a good heel so I hate him", but more of a "he sucks I'm changing the channel" heel. Vince has until Elimination Chamber to get the strap of Sheamus, because if his plan is to Main Event Sheamus v. Reigns at Wrestle Mania, I'll probably just go back to not watching anymore. Just awful. When Undertaker is the highlight of a PPV, coming out of my mouth, you know it's bad. Also, God forbid the Wyatt family ever come out of a feud looking good or threatening or dangerous.

[JaoSming]

(and now seemingly trying to recreate the Daniel Bryan sympathy from the crowd)

For comparison's sake (and spoiler)
https://streamable.com/t997

[zz21]

[[Q]]

I'm with Andrew, I wouldn't have minded a failed MITB cash since it rarely happens

was reading an article today about why Sheamus was a great heel to take the spot left by Rollins. In an era where fans are more knowledgeable about the industry's workings more than ever, smarky fans are cheering cool heels and booing straight edge faces. Guys who work hard like Cesaro, Ziggler, Owens get cheered as heels. Sheamus is none of those as he was hand-picked by the power-that-be to be the man. That is a big reason why he gets booed, and it actually unintentionally generates heat from fans for him while less knowledgeable fans boo him as a regular heel.

[JaoSming]

Owens gets cheers, but still works a great heel. Setting up for big moves and going into a chinlock, or yelling at the crowd to get boos. Same as Seth imo. Even though he got cheers in-ring during matches, he did plenty of despicable/annoying/pesky things to get boos.

[koberulz]

But when Sheamus comes on TV, I don't boo. I change the channel. And when he wins the world title, I don't tune in to see him lose it, I cancel my Network subscription.

Good heels draw.

[[Q]]

Owens gets cheers, but still works a great heel.

Good heels draw.

Exactly. I guess my point was that Sheamus is not a good heel. Hell, even as a face he wasn't that great

[Andrew]

For me, it depends where he is on the card. For what they want to do with him now, I'm not high up on him myself. In the midcard - and as I said, as an occasional challenger for the world champion to ultimately go over - I think he's fine.

[[Q]]

Yeah I actually didn't mind him getting stuck in the midcard (still holding onto the briefcase, mind you) as I usually skip a lot of those matches

[bigh0rt]

Owens gets cheers, but still works a great heel.

Good heels draw.

Exactly. I guess my point was that Sheamus is not a good heel. Hell, even as a face he wasn't that great

I think this is a move by the WWE to try and force fans to cheer for Reigns. Sheamus sucks so bad it's very easy to root for Reigns as a face, which is apparently what they're looking for; Cena 2.0, with no heel turn ever, and superhuman winning cleanly, as he did pinning Ambrose in the middle of the ring in a relatively short match. So I can at least understand the move on some level, if that is their intent. The fans who cheer for any face will cheer for Reigns, and the people who can't bear to see Sheamus on TV, not because he's a good heel, but because he just sucks, will also on some level cheer for Reigns, and suddenly everyone is cheering for Reigns.

[Andrew]

That's the aim, but I'm sceptical as to how successful it will be. I think Reigns has what it takes to be a star, but his push hasn't been handled well, and his crowd reactions are still divided, even putting aside smarks who want to hate him just because he isn't Daniel Bryan, someone else they'd prefer, or indeed, just because. After Survivor Series finished, they had a postscript segment where he left the ring looking upset and the general reaction...well, he wasn't drawing a lot of sympathy, let's put it that way. It's early days, but I don't think they can do with him what they did with Bryan.

Sheamus is also a problem here, as I don't think he's over enough as a main event heel that people want to see him be chased and eventually beaten; it seems like there's lukewarm interest at best in anything that he does. A great babyface needs a great heel to draw heat and in turn, help them draw sympathy and support. If Rollins wasn't injured and Reigns was still feuding with him, I think that could've helped solidify him as a face. I think Ambrose would probably also get a better reaction, even against Sheamus, but with Reigns drawing such mixed reactions I don't think it'll be enough.

[bigh0rt]

Agree with everything you said. I see this all ending terribly.

[koberulz]

I really don't understand why their solution to 'people don't like Reigns' is always 'ensure everything else is so bad he looks good by comparison'. Did they not learn from the Rumble?

[Andrew]

The thing is, people seemed to like him OK before the big push. It was too much, too soon, and a lot of people still wanted to see Bryan get back to the top, which unfortunately couldn't happen with him not being 100% healthy. They pulled back on the push, had Rollins cash in and win the title at Wrestlemania 31 instead, but that still didn't work. Although I was glad not to see Reigns turn at Survivor Series and join The Authority - that would've been too obvious - he may have to turn heel to eventually turn face.

[JaoSming]

https://streamable.com/pdxj

[shadowgrin]

Why is Undertaker wrestling again outside of Wrestlemania?

That's two consecutive PPVs now, does he need the money that bad?

[Andrew]

Probably not, since he'd be on a generous downside guarantee. More than likely, something of a farewell tour culminating at Wrestlemania 32.

[[Q]]

phpBB [video]

The New Day is actually one of the few bright spots in today's WWE

btw, I've been watching the videos on this channel for a while and Im surprised they'd let them blatantly break kayfabe on a consistent basis here.

[shadowgrin]

Miz can break kayfabe and still be kayfabe, that's how good he is.

Dude was just spamming with Honda to beat the Miz, no level of playing skill involved at all.