MMA

[NovU]

The way Fedor won the match isn't really an issue to me. If you look at his previous fights, actually all fights he's won in MMA has not really been in a dominant fashion. That's probably the difference between Brock and Fedor. Fedor has been through so many fights and some against best and some not, but he's undefeated in all those fights. That's what's really impressive to me. I am not too sure if Brock or any other fighter can achieve what Fedor did regardless of organization they fight in. One way or the other, Fedor has came up with a way to defeat the opponents, and he did the same thing to Rogers with second round KO punch. As a commentator said, he's so dangerous even though he looks vulnerable at times. The champ till beaten. That's what Fedor is, to me. I'm concerened of his age though. Due to his comparably small size in heavy weight division, I am not too keen on his future in a long run. As his strength and agility fades, he'll struggle against bigger and stronger guys with his age playing a factor.

[J@3]

They don't get as big or strong as Brock Lesnar. I always thought Fedor would negate Brock's strength/wrestling with his ground game but Rogers was mauling him on the ground in the first round and lets be real, Rogers has beaten nobody except the ghost of Andrei Arlovski. Two of his wins came over guys who were beaten by Houston Alexander and Kimbo Slice respectively. "Titties" from Ultimate Fighter 10 has a 10-0 record too.

I think Arlovski had Fedor on the ropes big time in their fight but he did something stupid and Fedor laid him out. Rogers had him in a really bad position in the first that alot of guys would've finished. I'm just not sure how much longer he can keep using his get out of jail card. That being said since there's a good chance he'll never fight in the UFC it means he'll keep getting relatively easy opponents and never have to worry about the top of the line guys.

[NovU]

That being said since there's a good chance he'll never fight in the UFC it means he'll keep getting relatively easy opponents and never have to worry about the top of the line guys.

I for one wanted to see Fedor in UFC but what he did was in the best interest of himself and his company, M-1 Global so I respect that. The fighters he fights against, might not be top of the line but at the same time, UFC's heavy weight class isn't looking too strong with Brock being the Champ at 4-1(wins against Herring, Kim, Cutuour, Mir) record. I don't think the fighters Brock has faced were the best of the best either anyways, as Cutuor was nearing the end of his career, and Frank being probably the toughest challenge he's faced in his career so far. On the other hand, Fedor has fought all the greats in their primes and has again beaten a rising star who might be in his prime, Rogers. Well, Rogers may not be the top fighter, but still Fedor gets to silence the critics a bit with his unbeaten record remaining to be challenged.

Also UFC has been known to force an unfair contract to the fighters which resulted many good fighters to sign else where. With it being Dana's own show, I wouldn't mind to see another organization hosting MMA events, especially if that involves top fighters like Fedor, Mousassi and Overeem. Besides, there are still great fighters like Josh Barnett and many others waiting for a chance to fight Fedor. I don't think finding top opponents for Fedor will be a tough task for Strikeforce. As for Brock, his history is way too short to judge he's the best fighter in the world, when you know Fedor has the record of 31 wins in MMA alone.

[J@3]

UFC's got a good heavyweight division. Lesnar, Nogueira, Dos Santos, Carwin, Velasquez, Gonzaga, Kongo, Mir and even a guy like Todd Duffee who I think will be pretty special in time. Strikeforce have Fedor, Overeem and Werdum (who the UFC got rid of after Dos Santos killed him). Fedor's already beaten the supposed rising star in Rogers, if/when he takes out Overeem and Werdum there's just nothing left for him. Unless they want to do more stupid catch-weight fights.

UFC's heavy weight class isn't looking too strong with Brock being the Champ at 4-1

People focus on Lesnar's record too much (obviously he's not the best fighter in the World. He's not Anderson Silva or GSP) but if you watch his fights he doesn't just beat guys he obliterates them. The last one against Frank Mir was just frightening. Herring went to a decision but only because he somehow survived having his head bashed in for three rounds, Couture had nothing for him and until Mir submitted him Lesnar was winning that first fight REALLY easily. Everyone wants to give Fedor credit for beating guys like Sylvia and Arlovski, Brock takes out Couture and Mir and people just make excuses, say they are washed up etc.... Tim Sylvia got knocked out by a 48 year old boxer in his second MMA bout. Him having the belt doesn't weaken the division at all... no one outside of the UFC apart from Fedor and maybe Overeem could take him.

I'm not sure how Fedor's fought "all the greats in their primes" though. He's fought Cro Cop, Nogueira and Coleman. Arlovski and Sylvia weren't in their prime, both proved that by their follow-up performances.

I don't think finding top opponents for Fedor will be a tough task for Strikeforce.

Who else is there? Barnett has to stay off the steroids long enough to weigh in for him to ever fight him.

[Al Ka Pwn]

As long as someone get's knocked out, who cares?

[Null17]

I think Fedor should retire anyway. And I'm a Fedor fan. No sense in risking his record when he's starting to decline on "rising stars". Those fights will do nothing for him. As much as I love Fedor, Brock is gonna pose a big threat (see what Jae said).

To be fair to Arlovski, people weren't saying he was past his prime until Fedor and Rogers made his glass jaw become more obvious. I don't think he's done. It's just that chin of his that everyone knows by now.

[Al Ka Pwn]

You sound like a very loving fan. I'd hate to see what you say about people when you don't like them.

I don't like Fedor and couldn't care less who he fights or if he keeps his record. I want entertaining fights. Be it in strikeforce, k-1, or even the ufc.

[NovU]

Everyone wants to give Fedor credit for beating guys like Sylvia and Arlovski, Brock takes out Couture and Mir and people just make excuses, say they are washed up etc.... Tim Sylvia got knocked out by a 48 year old boxer in his second MMA bout. Him having the belt doesn't weaken the division at all... no one outside of the UFC apart from Fedor and maybe Overeem could take him.

I'm not sure how Fedor's fought "all the greats in their primes" though. He's fought Cro Cop, Nogueira and Coleman. Arlovski and Sylvia weren't in their prime, both proved that by their follow-up performances.

I think it's vice versa. People are giving way too much credits to Brock while Fedor gets beaten down in medias how he's fought washed up fighters who aren't in primes or how he chooses weaker organizations. But in the end I look at Fedor as a guy who'll come out with a way to win one way or the other regardless of opponents, while Brock is an untested fighter who needs more wins. At the end of the day, it's W that matters just like everyone says, and Fedor has been delivering it since day 1 till now. On the other hand, Brock is raw and definitely needs more wins to be more convincing. As for fighting Cro Cop and Nogueira, I believe Cro Cop was near his prime so was Nogueira. Many say Arlovski and Tim Sylvia were washed up fighters, but let's face it. Tim was a champ in UFC untill 1 previous match against Fedor while Arlovski was coming off from win streak of 5. They sorta lost a ground since Dana won't accept them in UFC due to fallen values of them, but I still think they could do ok in UFC heavy weight division.

[Null17]

You sound like a very loving fan. I'd hate to see what you say about people when you don't like them.

I don't like Fedor and couldn't care less who he fights or if he keeps his record. I want entertaining fights. Be it in strikeforce, k-1, or even the ufc.

Fedor won't be entertaining if he just keeps fighting shitty guys while his skills decline. Like Jae said, there's only Overeem and Werdum and no one else he can fight outside the UFC. Overeem and Lesnar are the only two interesting opponents for me. And maybe Carwin and Velasquez just for the hell of it.

[Al Ka Pwn]

You ever been in a fight?

[Null17]

When I was younger, with my brother and some lame TKD sparring. Why? What's it got to do with the topic?

[Al Ka Pwn]

You are calling guys that would probably rip you apart shitty. I wondered if that was based on something.

[Null17]

Uh..we're spectators, they're pros. That's like not being allowed to say some NBA players suck because they're in the NBA and we're not. I meant shitty by compared to the top-tier heavyweights. Everyone in their division would rip me apart considering they have about 100lbs on me. Perhaps the word I chose was a bit harsh but that wasn't meant to be a shot at them. Oh believe me, if they're shitty-shitty. I'm way below that.

[Al Ka Pwn]

Nah, but that's ok.

[J@3]

Everyone wants to give Fedor credit for beating guys like Sylvia and Arlovski, Brock takes out Couture and Mir and people just make excuses, say they are washed up etc.... Tim Sylvia got knocked out by a 48 year old boxer in his second MMA bout. Him having the belt doesn't weaken the division at all... no one outside of the UFC apart from Fedor and maybe Overeem could take him.

I'm not sure how Fedor's fought "all the greats in their primes" though. He's fought Cro Cop, Nogueira and Coleman. Arlovski and Sylvia weren't in their prime, both proved that by their follow-up performances.

I think it's vice versa. People are giving way too much credits to Brock while Fedor gets beaten down in medias how he's fought washed up fighters who aren't in primes or how he chooses weaker organizations.

But that is the opposite of what you're doing. You said the UFC HW division was weak because Brock's the champion, but then said Fedor's fought all the greats in their prime when obviously he hasn't. Cro Cop, Nogueira and Coleman. That's it.

On the other hand, Brock is raw and definitely needs more wins to be more convincing.

In your mind who would Brock have to beat for him to be convincing?

As for fighting Cro Cop and Nogueira, I believe Cro Cop was near his prime so was Nogueira.

That was my point.

Many say Arlovski and Tim Sylvia were washed up fighters, but let's face it. Tim was a champ in UFC untill 1 previous match against Fedor while Arlovski was coming off from win streak of 5. They sorta lost a ground since Dana won't accept them in UFC due to fallen values of them, but I still think they could do ok in UFC heavy weight division.

If they were in their primes Dana would've had them in the UFC. Sylvia followed up the Fedor fight by getting knocked out by the 48 year old Ray Mercer, Arlovski followed it up by getting knocked out in 22 seconds by Brett Rogers. I'm a big fan of Arlovski but he's even more of a shadow of his former self than Cro Cop is.

[Al Ka Pwn]

Do you consider Lesnar on the same level as Fedor?

[J@3]

Skill/ability wise? No way. If they fought 10 times Fedor would probably win 6+ times.

[NovU]

But that is the opposite of what you're doing. You said the UFC HW division was weak because Brock's the champion, but then said Fedor's fought all the greats in their prime when obviously he hasn't. Cro Cop, Nogueira and Coleman. That's it.

Twice with Nogueira, lindland, coleman, crocop and a few other ok fighters, yep that's it. In those days, UFC HW division was weak, and it was only very recent they have been getting some quality fighters.

In your mind who would Brock have to beat for him to be convincing?.

Well, like I said more wins. I just find it bit odd how people praise of how godly fighter Brock is, with him having only a record of 4-1. Is he a great fighter in making? Yes, but premature to judge he's up there with Fedor considering what Fedor has acheived in his career.

[J@3]

Well, like I said more wins. I just find it bit odd how people praise of how godly fighter Brock is, with him having only a record of 4-1.

People focus on Lesnar's record too much (obviously he's not the best fighter in the World. He's not Anderson Silva or GSP) but if you watch his fights he doesn't just beat guys he obliterates them.

You can't just look at records. Like I said, Titties is 10-0. Brock is 4-1... if you're just going by records then Titties should be able to beat Brock, but that's not how it works in MMA.

Also, Fedor's fought Nogueira three times.

[Null17]

I think he just meant wins with Nog since the other one was an NC. Lindland isn't really a good argument since he was two weightclasses lower and he started off pretty good in that fight. Anyway, carry on.

[NovU]

You can't just look at records. Like I said, Titties is 10-0. Brock is 4-1... if you're just going by records then Titties should be able to beat Brock, but that's not how it works in MMA.

Also, Fedor's fought Nogueira three times.

Of course it isn't, but when the number is 31-0, some against best, some not, it's just unreal. I do realize Fedor doesn't have the size or strength that Brock posesses, and some battles might have made him look vurnerable at times, but during the whole time, he found a way to survive through every single fights. Everyone is bound to make a costly mistake every once in awhile but that never happened to Fedor and rather than relying on a few fighting styles, he was adaptive during almost all fights. Meanwhile, Brock has tremendous upsides to his styles too, and if he finds ways not to make serious mistakes in his career from now on, I don't see why not he'll gain the status of Fedor or even better. But at this moment, I give more props to Fedor.

[J@3]

Fedor is great, no doubt about it. I doubt Brock will ever get to 31-1 or whatever Fedor is now, he simply won't have that many fights. Nor will Brock ever be considered as great as Fedor because he hasn't got the overall skill or ground game. He is just a beast of a human and to be honest if there was one person on the planet I'd never want to have to fight in my lifetime it'd be Brock Lesnar.

I think overall I'm just more a fan of guys who dominate their opponents. Anderson Silva, Brock, GSP, PRIDE Wanderlei etc. I like/respect Fedor but as you mentioned he does often look vulnerable and that doesn't appeal to me as a fan. I still think Arlovski would've beaten him if he wasn't such an idiot though.

[NovU]

I think overall I'm just more a fan of guys who dominate their opponents.

I think I am opposite of you but in a similar way. I like watching dominating fighters, but in the end, I am more fan of Fedor because he gives the feeling that he's somebody you can relate to. Regular build, regular looker, regular fat ass uncle Sam atmosphere with humble attitude. Brock doesn't give me any of that feeling and just like you said I'd really hate to fight him. He's just a freak of nature and that alone scares you so much. It's just a scary thought how he can make an impact which he did with just a physical ability. Nonetheless, people pay more respect to Fedor at the moment, but I think table can be turned quite quickly if Brock proves himself with more wins in dominating fashion while Fedor declines. As a fan of Fedor, it's something I really wouldn't like to see...

[Al Ka Pwn]

Isn't Brock over 30 himself already?

[NovU]

He's year younger than Fedor but based on his strength and size, I am guessing his tenure in MMA career will last longer than Fedor's, as quickness and agility usually goes away quicker. On top of that, Fedor's body should have taken its toll from all the fights and training in MMA since days of a childhood. But his strengths have been work ethic and adaptation, so I think he'll be fine for at least for awhile.