Are you ready for some football?

[air gordon]

Thats fair enough. But to me, when other people have put him in the top 10 fantasy players, they probably expect big production. I compared him to James becuase Miami will probably be a pass orientated system, but can still make teams pay with the run, like indy the past few years.

And look at James' numbers for week 1: 73 yards, 1 td. Sure they arent bad numbers, but lets be serious, the deep threat passing game didnt help his fantasy value at all.

James is an interesting comparison. 73yds is ok for his debut. that does project to almost 1200yrds over 16 games. however i don't think many, including myself, are predicting him to match his Indy numbers because of his offensive line

Yes when TD’s are awarded 6pts in our league. And you can also think since Miami will be giving him the ball near the goal line, there’s will be that chance he’ll salvage a subpar game into a good one by getting a TD or 2

I hope you're right with this, but im not sold. Especially since it took a should of been pick in the redzone to goto brown the second time for a td.

you can take solance in Miami not having a goal line back like the Giants do with Jacobs to vulture TD's away with him. coulda, woulda, shoulda, it doesn't matter. Brown got the 2nd TD. maybe Brown has 3 if one of the lineman doesn't miss a block early in the 2nd qtr

I'm not saying running backs arent important... but look at week 1 and tell me mcnabb for brown wasnt fair.

i thought we already agreed that using one week's performance is a very inaccurate measure for this

:

Lol when? i had mentioned most of the sites i had seen had Manning ahead of Brown, rightly so

And I mentioned the one that had it the other way. Surely you'd agree that around half of these guys in our league rely on "expert" opinions as to what they're doing. I'm saying someone else's opinion(no matter how irrational it is) should be taken as gospel, which some people do.

i'm lost here. are you saying what 1 expert says should be taken as gospel? even after you discount an entire ranking listing when you disagree with a few of them lol

How many times do you want me to go through them exactly? I'm sick of rewording what ive said 3 or 4 times earlier.

it doesn't make any sense. even for someone like Michael Jordan, there would be all these negative intangibles in his way to get 30pts?

Becuase he's rubbish (lamont jordan). He's an ok rb, but not first round material. I dont think you can say a players worth is based on the draft position.

Jordan had a pretty solid year. lots of touchdowns and receptions for a RB. dude, i don't know about that other statement. especially in the first few rounds. but i can see with that with QB's, where you can a similar type of production from a mid round pick and a mid to later round pick

So Holmes was/responding different to the amount of carries then Alexander. You want to keep on splitting hairs. Let’s not get away from what was being disputed in the first place (and something you didn’t respond to 2 times now)- starting in 2004, there were already questions marks regarding Holmes holding up/repeating another superstar type season. And in the fantasy columns, the experts were already suggesting picking up Johnson if you drafted Holmes. Or maybe you’ll just fail to acknowledge this since it goes against you’re thinking

I dont remeber that, and unless if you provide somekind of evidence of these opinions prior to the draft, i wont respond to it.

are you seriously questioning my integrity? you think i'm making those bits of info up to prove my point!

Being productive doesnt mean you're higher in the depth chart. Billy Volek is more productive then kerry collins or vince young, yet he is 3rd in tennesse.

this is a complete copout. throw your logic out the door since Blaylock and Johnson were splitting the carries. can Volek, Young, and Collins each sit out one series, come back in, then sit again like RB's?? does 2yrs still equal a ton of years to you?

Exactly. Perception is not reality. 22 points is not 14 points.

again, using one weeks of games...

You made a similar blanket statement about ronnie brown after one week!

yes, to show you how lame it is to say one week's performance determines how productive a fantasy players season will be. Or maybe you want to revisit the Josh Brown for Peyton Manning trade talks??

All stars was 2nd of all teams, does it mean anything?

no. but for me it does. i get bragging rights for the week, even moreso since you were ragging on Culpepper. so eat it'!

Also, who was your highest single player performer? Frank Gore. So while you criticise my deal for the "percieved" unfairness, your highest performer was someone who you ripped from cwebb, so shut the fuck up already. You got a much better deal, and yet you stil complain the most.

again, you're the baby who was crying that there should be NO VETOES in fantasy football! wtf is that. i'm not complaining about jack shit. i'm criticizing trades and people are free to criticize my trades. other people had the 2 day period to veto or sound off on it. you had your chance

now if you want to base the fairness of a trade based on week one, feel free lol

Here, as in nlsc. I did bring it to everones attention in this thread.

thank you commissioner. could have done it before the veto period ended though

Brown fro mcnabb, -8 from my point of view
gore for mcardell, +18 from your point of view.
End of discussion.

so trade me Manning for my kicker. end of discussion

And actually since I “was bored”, I asked every GM in my money league if they would trade Brown for McNabb, listing both rosters. The results: all 9 said no. I even asked a few fantasy experts via email and they agreed. In fact a few were even saying that this was collusion and that it would shift the power of the league. But hey- we’re just a bunch of guys with some fantasy experience. You’ll just find some way to discount it anyway. However I think what’s most surprising and telling is that not one them said they would go for the trade/said it was a fair deal. Ah well

Like that means anything to me. Perception isnt reality. I wonder if they'll have the same opinion after the season.

ok thanks. there really are no ethics in fantasy sports. if you can find someone that would trade chicken salad for chicken shit, then do it. keep on doing this dance defending on how it's "fair" but just know this- this deal doesn't go through in any highly competitve league, especially those involving money

I think mcnabb will have the better season.

lol i forgot to mention this the whole time... Jugs wasn't even in a desparate position to get a QB. he already had a player who should be just about as productive as McNabb (and not coincidentally grabbed in the 6th round), Kurt Warner!

i've traded Chad Pennington to Qballer for Derrick Mason and R McMichael.

just giving the heads up for anyone that wants to veto this trade- You've got 2 days

i'm also open to debating the fairness or lack of it in this deal

Comming from the guy who actually voted against a deal. You're getting served in this deal Smile.

lol so whats your point

[Indy]

I personally would never trade a guy like Derrick Mason for Chad Pennington, and if you add McMichael too, I'd say absolutely not.

Pennington is a guy that's had one good season, and the rest have been really bad or he's been hurt. Sure he had a pretty good game in week 1, but I'm not sold on him as of this point.

That doesn't mean i'm going to vote against the trade, I couldn't care one way or another. If both sides agree to a trade that's all that matters.

[Matthew]

James is an interesting comparison. 73yds is ok for his debut. that does project to almost 1200yrds over 16 games. however i don't think many, including myself, are predicting him to match his Indy numbers because of his offensive line

1200 yards is nothing these days for a season. With what you said about Edge, where would you rank him on your top 25 players?

you can take solance in Miami not having a goal line back like the Giants do with Jacobs to vulture TD's away with him. coulda, woulda, shoulda, it doesn't matter. Brown got the 2nd TD. maybe Brown has 3 if one of the lineman doesn't miss a block early in the 2nd qtr

I know couldashouldwoulda, but the fact remians miami was more interested in culpepper making a play then brown. But what you say about miami not having a goaline rb is true, but Culpepper might turn out to be that guy for them.

i thought we already agreed that using one week's performance is a very inaccurate measure for this

Then why did you use browns stats after the first game to "prove" your point that he wasnt a bust?

i'm lost here. are you saying what 1 expert says should be taken as gospel? even after you discount an entire ranking listing when you disagree with a few of them lol

Meant to say shouldnt, not should. My mistake.

it doesn't make any sense. even for someone like Michael Jordan, there would be all these negative intangibles in his way to get 30pts?

But ronnie brown is not michael jordan. he reminds me more of glen rice when he joined the lakers, capable of posting big numbers but has to realise he is the 3rd option.

Jordan had a pretty solid year. lots of touchdowns and receptions for a RB. dude, i don't know about that other statement. especially in the first few rounds. but i can see with that with QB's, where you can a similar type of production from a mid round pick and a mid to later round pick

Even froma rb perspective, I don't look at where people are drafted as to how valuable they are. For example, i'd be much more interested in making a deal in for frank gore then tatum bell.

are you seriously questioning my integrity? you think i'm making those bits of info up to prove my point!

No, but no ones perfect. You might be remembering somthing said after draft day or simple be confused. I dont remember it at all. But if they did say it, its curious that they didnt offer similar warnings for alexander.

this is a complete copout. throw your logic out the door since Blaylock and Johnson were splitting the carries. can Volek, Young, and Collins each sit out one series, come back in, then sit again like RB's?? does 2yrs still equal a ton of years to you?

With limited opportunites, volek is more productive then young and collins. That was your own arguement, not mine. And I never said 2 years is a ton of years.

again, using one weeks of games...

I'd rather go by the season so far then projected rankings

yes, to show you how lame it is to say one week's performance determines how productive a fantasy players season will be. Or maybe you want to revisit the Josh Brown for Peyton Manning trade talks??

One week isnt the be all and end all of determing fantasy value. but it is a better way then yahoo's projected rankings.

no. but for me it does. i get bragging rights for the week, even moreso since you were ragging on Culpepper. so eat it'!

lol, get back to me when you beat me in this comp. Talking after one week is like Adam Morrison talking shit to Dwayne Wade after winning his first regular season game.

again, you're the baby who was crying that there should be NO VETOES in fantasy football! wtf is that. i'm not complaining about jack shit. i'm criticizing trades and people are free to criticize my trades. other people had the 2 day period to veto or sound off on it. you had your chance

I didn't cry about it, I simply said it. I stand by it too. If both parties are willing, then so be it. People use Veto's just as much for their own gain as people who make bad trades.

thank you commissioner. could have done it before the veto period ended though

Look at the dates.

so trade me Manning for my kicker. end of discussion

Quit evading the point that you got the most lopsidded deal so far and you're the one still saying how unfair mcnabb for brown was.

ok thanks. there really are no ethics in fantasy sports. if you can find someone that would trade chicken salad for chicken shit, then do it. keep on doing this dance defending on how it's "fair" but just know this- this deal doesn't go through in any highly competitve league, especially those involving money

Funny how you say i traded chicken shit for chicken soup, when mcnabb outperformed brown

lol i forgot to mention this the whole time... Jugs wasn't even in a desparate position to get a QB. he already had a player who should be just about as productive as McNabb (and not coincidentally grabbed in the 6th round), Kurt Warner!

Kurt Warners performance wasn't predicted, and even the chumps who criticsed this deal admitted he needed qb help. But if we go by that standard, i would have been better off starting mcnabb, and travis henry in place of brown. hindsight is no arguement.

lol so whats your point

that your actions contradict your thoughts in this thread.

[air gordon]

1200 yards is nothing these days for a season. With what you said about Edge, where would you rank him on your top 25 players?

Nothing? you pair 1200yrds with 9-10 TD’s and you got yourself a starting type RB. Not to forget James is a threat to catch the ball out of the backfield. Id put him in the top 25 for sure

I know couldashouldwoulda, but the fact remians miami was more interested in culpepper making a play then brown. But what you say about miami not having a goaline rb is true, but Culpepper might turn out to be that guy for them.

It’s a fact miami was more interested? The fact is Brown had 2 TD’s. may or may not. Enough of that speculation. Lol Brown was the goalline running back and had 2 TD’s. whatever- are we really still debating over this

Then why did you use browns stats after the first game to "prove" your point that he wasnt a bust?

I already addressed this earlier. I was being ironic. But who cares- you’re the one with Brown and you think he has the equal chance of being good or bad. though I know he’ll be in your starting lineup every week Miami plays

But ronnie brown is not michael jordan. he reminds me more of glen rice when he joined the lakers, capable of posting big numbers but has to realise he is the 3rd option.

The point is that you can’t use that crap theory of every player has the same amount of negative intangibles as they have positive. 3rd option talk already? As I said, you downplay him so much but I know Glen Rice is starting every week

Even froma rb perspective, I don't look at where people are drafted as to how valuable they are. For example, i'd be much more interested in making a deal in for frank gore then tatum bell.

Um ok. Lol was this before or after gore had 2TDs?

No, but no ones perfect. You might be remembering somthing said after draft day or simple be confused. I dont remember it at all. But if they did say it, its curious that they didnt offer similar warnings for alexander.

you’re only coming up with this bullshit because it’s going against your point. It’s just sad that you’re now speculating what my eyes saw and what my ears heard. C’mon

With limited opportunites, volek is more productive then young and collins. That was your own arguement, not mine. And I never said 2 years is a ton of years

You sure did since you said it took Johnson a ton of years to be the #2 back. I can quote it if you think I’m “seeing things” again:

For alot of years he wasnt even the 2nd string guy.

a lot, ton.. same shit

I'd rather go by the season so far then projected rankings

We’re trying to be objective here

One week isnt the be all and end all of determing fantasy value. but it is a better way then yahoo's projected rankings.

Lol ok so again, Brown for Manning

lol, get back to me when you beat me in this comp. Talking after one week is like Adam Morrison talking shit to Dwayne Wade after winning his first regular season game.

Stop being sensitive and just take it. I didn’t say I was going to win the championship based on this 1st week. In fact I probably wouldn’t do the excessive bragging if you hadn’t taken a shot at Culpepper. Btw now you’re using the ‘one week’ argument the other way!!! You seriously need to stop and realize how ridiculous this is getting

I didn't cry about it, I simply said it. I stand by it too. If both parties are willing, then so be it. People use Veto's just as much for their own gain as people who make bad trades.

Ah bullshit. No trades would get done if this were the case

Quit evading the point that you got the most lopsided deal so far and you're the one still saying how unfair mcnabb for brown was….
Funny how you say i traded chicken shit for chicken soup, when mcnabb outperformed brown

Lol ok.. “so far”. I can’t believe you’re really taking this one week’s worth of games thing so seriously. Brown for Peyton works in your favor according to your theory. What’s stopping you. and actually going on with this 1 week thinking, the trade clearly looks stupid for Jugs- he could have just kept Warner and kept Brown. He would have had league high in points scored rather then having a valuable player like Warner stuck on the bench.

... No one knew who Gore was until after week 1. the guy was drafted 96th in our draft. 3 defenses were picked before him Even a draft guru like yourself passed on him 7 times. How can you miss him. and now He scores 2 Td’s and all of sudden some people like he was a top 5 RB heading into our draft..

Kurt Warners performance wasn't predicted, and even the chumps who criticsed this deal admitted he needed qb help. But if we go by that standard, i would have been better off starting mcnabb, and travis henry in place of brown. hindsight is no arguement.

His overall projections are on the same level as McNabb’s on several sites (I won’t bother with the Warner for R Brown trade scenarios). He didn’t need a new starting QB, he needed a more reliable backup. And he could have easily gotten that backup by not trading one of his starting RB’s.
A lineup of Warner, d Jackson, smith, S Jackson, Brown, etc with Deuce as his flex is a much tougher lineup to beat then McNabb and co with someone like Curtis as his flex.

And funny there was no response to the trade doesn’t go through in a highly competitive/money league

that your actions contradict your thoughts in this thread.

Ok thanks. tough crowd.

[J@3]

but I know Glen Rice is starting every week

Thought I was back in the mid 90's for a second there

[The Other Kevin]

Why are you in this thread anyway, Jae?

[Matthew]

I'm sick of the pointless circles this conversation is going in. But I have a few final points on the topic I would like to say:

All the "pointless speculation" on my part about Ronnie Brown is comming true so far, he hasnt been worthy of a first round pick.

McNabb once again performed very well, somthing else I said would happen. People laughed at the trade, but this weeks totals (in comparison) are mcnabb 20 points, brown 5 points. Yeah really unfair trade retards.

Your use of hindsight and reliance of other peoples opinions shows how desperate you are to validate your point of view. Jugs didnt need a qb? Have a look at todays result, Jugs won by 8 fantasy points. McNabb had 20 points this week, Warner had 8. Without McNabb, he would have lost. All those do gooders who said it was unfair for Jugs are lucky the deal went through, becuase otherwise you would have had to explain your brilliant line of thinking to why you cost Jugs a win.

Also, compare the two trades: McNabb/Brown and Mcardell/ Gore

McNabb 42 points in 2 games. Brown 19.

McCardell 2 fantasy points. Gore 28 points.

There has been a difference of 23 points in the mcnabb/brown deal (in my negative), and a difference of 26 points in your trade (in your favour), and here you are complaining about how unfair my trade was my point of view? Also, nice point about qb's being worthless . I'll be waiting for your meaningless trash talk about being ahead on the equivilent of percentage points.

[Jugs]

Fuck, I do have Kurt Warner stuck on the bench.

Anyone want him?

[Buckley]

Wow, i really fucked myself over this week.

Toomer gets 18 points and I sat him (Jenkins started he had 0)
Kitna gets 8 points and I sat him (Delhomme started he had 3)
Colston gets 8 points and I sat him (Gonzalez started he had 0)

I trade 2 guys who get 10 points each this week.

I could have had 62 points and kick All Stars ass, but of course some dumb ass trades come back to haunt me.

[air gordon]

ok thank you. this should be last post on this topic for me because after this one's over, i've said what i needed to say. anything additional would just be trying to get in the last word

since the best you can come up for countering my arguments is to make up stuff, contradict yourself, and automatically discredit anything that goes against your thinking, i'll use your ass backwards thinking on you and i'll still be right

Jugs would have WON if hadn't made the trade, genius. Warner's 8 and Brown's 5pts would have given Jugs the win. Brilliant. let me show you the math just in case you don't believe me (you may think i'm reading things wrong):

Jugs overall score from week 2: 73pts
Subtract McNabb and Curtis point total (20 & 0 respectively): 73-20= 53pts
now add Warner and Brown's point total (8 & 5 respectively): 53 + 13= 66pts

Jugs final score is 66pts. since 66pts > 65pts, Jugs gets the win

once again- Jugs team was stronger before the trade. going off the projections AND your ass backwards theories. End of discussion.. or not- maybe some people would rather have the 3rd receiver on the Rams as their flex position instead of Ronnie Brown

and as for your team, if you didn't have Brown on your team for week 1 and didn't start Henry (you wouldn't have anyway sinceso far you've shown the propensity for starting the wrong flex player), you lose! some risk both sides were taking

again, about Gore...
No one knew who Gore was until after week 1. the guy was drafted 96th in our draft... the 30th RB selected. 3 defenses were picked before him. Even a draft guru like yourself passed on him 7 times. How can you miss him. He scores 2 Td’s and all of sudden some people act like he was a top 5 RB heading into our draft..

and now to all of sudden start saying that the Gore-McCardell deal is a ripoff is a prime example of using hindsight theory, you hypocrite

lol how can i be ahead of you in %pts when we will be both 2-0

i never said QB's are worthless. i said you can get a similar QB in the later rounds as you would the middle rounds. but i can imagine they mean a lot to you since your RB's produced like Wr's this past week. do you think Kurt Warner would be enough for Ronnie Brown? does anyone??

trash talking is fun since you're so damn sensitive. btw i still topped your team in points even though Manning had that crazy game

looking to trade McMichael along with one of my RB's

[Matthew]

since the best you can come up for countering my arguments is to make up stuff, contradict yourself, and automatically discredit anything that goes against your thinking, i'll use your ass backwards thinking on you and i'll still be right

How are you right? Ronnie Brown has done nothing so far to even warrent a number 3 selection. Donovan McNabb has done everything to warrant the trade being fair from jugs point of view.

Jugs would have WON if hadn't made the trade, genius. Warner's 8 and Brown's 5pts would have given Jugs the win. Brilliant. let me show you the math just in case you don't believe me (you may think i'm reading things wrong):

Thats true, but the only reason for this is becuase he still uses curtis in his utility spot, becuase Curtis has done nothing so far. So in actuality, you have had to combine brown and warner to forge any kind of arguement. So far the equation is warner + brown = 49 fantasy points. Mcnabb by himself is 42 points. Jugs not inding a suitable replacement, like a michael turner or colston as a productive utility isnt my fault. The fact is though that so far the brwon/mcnabb deal has been an absolute steal for him.

once again- Jugs team was stronger before the trade. going off the projections AND your ass backwards theories. End of discussion.. or not- maybe some people would rather have the 3rd receiver on the Rams as their flex position instead of Ronnie Brown

Part of the trade wasnt that jugs had to have curtis as utility. He should have signed a more productive player. That would be like someone holding jugs accountable for trading me brown, becuase i didnt start henry becuase of him and it cost me a fantasy point lol.

and as for your team, if you didn't have Brown on your team for week 1 and didn't start Henry (you wouldn't have anyway sinceso far you've shown the propensity for starting the wrong flex player), you lose! some risk both sides were taking

Actually I would have started henry. I wanted to see what benson had, and foster was a lock. However, i wasnt going to start both williams and foster, so henry was the guy I had in place.

again, about Gore...
No one knew who Gore was until after week 1. the guy was drafted 96th in our draft... the 30th RB selected. 3 defenses were picked before him. Even a draft guru like yourself passed on him 7 times. How can you miss him. He scores 2 Td’s and all of sudden some people act like he was a top 5 RB heading into our draft..

What a crock of shit. It was commented on the yahoo site on what a "good" trade it was for you (funny how when you make a deal, and its in your favour its a "good" deal. but when i make a trade, its "unfair".)

and now to all of sudden start saying that the Gore-McCardell deal is a ripoff is a prime example of using hindsight theory, you hypocrite

I said this well and truely before the season started, go back, look at the posts. I said your deal was more unfair.

lol how can i be ahead of you in %pts when we will be both 2-0

I said the equivilent of percentage points. My point is the point totals at this part of the season are meaningless.

i never said QB's are worthless. i said you can get a similar QB in the later rounds as you would the middle rounds. but i can imagine they mean a lot to you since your RB's produced like Wr's this past week. do you think Kurt Warner would be enough for Ronnie Brown? does anyone??

No but McNabb is definately worth a ronnie brown. Thats been proven so far this year, and i couldnt care less what your buddies think that you surveyed. it means nothing to me. The only thing that means anything in fantasy football is results.

trash talking is fun since you're so damn sensitive. btw i still topped your team in points even though Manning had that crazy game Wink

You have turned into a bonafide whinger:

You whinge when i trade mcnabb for brown

You whinge when i point your trade was worse in terms of unfairness

you whinge when you're wrong and have to use hindsight to alter your arguement

you whinge when you talk trash and no one responds

then when i do respond you whinge about that also

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

[Jugs]

Um. Okay. You guys should settle this with the adding of chocolate to milk.

[air gordon]

don't worry about it Jugs

what it comes down to is we see things differently. as ridiculously as it sounds (or not for some), some people believe that you can accurately evaluate a players value on 2 week's worth of games

personally i don't like being called pathetic by a respected member like Matthew just because we disagree on a few things. but oh well lol

there are some new points being brought up so i shall reply-

lol who is saying Brown is a #3 selection?

i don't have to forge anything to your liking to have a valid argument. my argument is fine. He could have just stayed with Warner and keep Brown. He wasn't weak at QB to begin with. now he has 2 productive QBs, but he can only start one and now he has to try find a replacement for his flex position, which won't be better then Brown anyway.

fact remains, if you don't have Brown in week 1 you lose. Jugs wins both his matchups without Mcnabb. you're the one who's benefitted most from the trade.

people said the Gore trade was good trade for me, i didn't hear anything about a ripoff except you.. which was based on nothing since you had no season stats to reference from lol

My point is the point totals at this part of the season are
meaningless.

lol for the last time, by you saying this makes the rest of your arguments meaningless.

since you are firm believer in results, you believe that Grossman is better then Manning

You whinge when i point your trade was worse in terms of unfairness

now you're finally admitting that your trade was unfair! lol from absolute steal to this

thank your for whinging comments but i must say i don't whinge if no one responds to my trash talk... it's really all in fun.. if no one wants to respond, so be it. it's a little different talking trash with internet acquaintances then friends anyway

should be a good matchup Jugs

[Matthew]

what it comes down to is we see things differently. as ridiculously as it sounds (or not for some), some people believe that you can accurately evaluate a players value on 2 week's worth of games

Well, I'll take the first 2 weeks rather then some shmucks "expert anaylsis" on yahoo who has lamont jordan ahead of manning, or the people in your money league.

personally i don't like being called pathetic by a respected member like Matthew just because we disagree on a few things. but oh well lol

I'm calling you're whining pathetic. I don't actually think you as a person is pathetic. You're a pretty cool person, but seriously you whinge too much.

lol who is saying Brown is a #3 selection?

I said brown has played more like a 3rd round rb rather then a 1st rounder.

i don't have to forge anything to your liking to have a valid argument. my argument is fine. He could have just stayed with Warner and keep Brown. He wasn't weak at QB to begin with. now he has 2 productive QBs, but he can only start one and now he has to try find a replacement for his flex position, which won't be better then Brown anyway.

Well, no, becuase McNabb is better then warner. Mcnabb + colston or michael turner at the flex for example is better then warner + brown.

fact remains, if you don't have Brown in week 1 you lose. Jugs wins both his matchups without Mcnabb. you're the one who's benefitted most from the trade.

Not true, Henry would have been starting in week 1.

people said the Gore trade was good trade for me, i didn't hear anything about a ripoff except you.. which was based on nothing since you had no season stats to reference from lol

And was I right, has the trade been a ripoff from your point of view? Don't deny it, you made cwebb look like isiah thomas in that trade.

lol for the last time, by you saying this makes the rest of your arguments meaningless.

Not true. Wins and losses are much more valuable then point totals. Just ask Kings of new york. He has what, 116 fantasy points over 2 weeks and is yet to register a victory. He has more fantasy points then indy, anthony and qballer, but is behind them in the standings becuase of the win/loss factor.

now you're finally admitting that your trade was unfair! lol from absolute steal to this

Bad wording by me. I still dont think that my deal has been unfair. I dont know what it will take for you to realise that it wasnt (especially when you look at the production from mcnabb so far, and the lack of production by brown). But i spose when the criticism is comming from someone who doesnt believe trading mcardell for gore was unfair, there has to be some expected ignorance.

thank your for whinging comments but i must say i don't whinge if no one responds to my trash talk... it's really all in fun.. if no one wants to respond, so be it. it's a little different talking trash with internet acquaintances then friends anyway

I dont mind if you talk shit, thats what the feature is for. But if you start talking, dont get butthurt if someone starts jawing back. Thats all.

[[Q]]

matchup of the season: wk 10. Matthew vs. Gordon

[air gordon]

Well, I'll take the first 2 weeks rather then some shmucks "expert anaylsis" on yahoo who has lamont jordan ahead of manning, or the people in your money league.

Yeh sure you can bump up the value of certain players like Cotchery, Gore, and some others…. But still going on with your thinking- you would take Baltimore’s defense ahead everyone since they have the highest total for the first few weeks. trade Shaun Alexander & Larry Johnson, etc for Fred Taylor...Petyon Manning for Grossman … Antonio Gates, Tony G for Desmond Clark. and so on and so forth would be fair because Baltimore, Grossman, Clark have outperformed those other guys. But hey feel free to believe in the 2 week theory

I'm calling you're whining pathetic. I don't actually think you as a person is pathetic. You're a pretty cool person, but seriously you whinge too much.

In the words of mr myagi- “you’re pretty ok yourself”…I didn’t make a post telling everyone to veto it or to have the trade reversed. I said from the start IMO it’s a vetoeable trade and have for the week or so gone on saying why. Obviously you don’t agree so I guess that make’s a whiner

Well, no, becuase McNabb is better then warner. Mcnabb + colston or michael turner at the flex for example is better then warner + brown.

There’s no “well..”
He doesn’t have to scramble to find a player on the wire if he doesn’t make the trade … who won’t be better then Brown in the first place. In fact, he could have just picked up someone off the wire like Grossman, Pennington, or Smith and just drop someone like McNown/Curtis to improve his QB situation.

Not true, Henry would have been starting in week 1.

Ok cool. Regardless, you’re the one who has benefited the most from this trade/took the lesser risk. Forget about add/drops as anyone can do this. As mentioned, Jugs would be winning still without the trade and have a stronger roster, but your team got the RB it needed so badly. Imagine all those points by Mcnabb go to waste because you’d be starting Peyton every week and going ahead with Hernry, Benson, Carolina backfield to choose from for your starting RBs

And was I right, has the trade been a ripoff from your point of view? Don't deny it, you made cwebb look like isiah thomas in that trade.

Yeah of course the trade has been one sided. But the shit you’re giving me is all AFTER THE FACT. Exactly what have you come up with during this entire debate as to why Gore/McCardell was a complete ripoff….BEFORE the season started?? NOTHING! Hehe if anything you should be crediting me for finding a diamond in the rough.

i'm not even going to bother with the Glenn-Colston trade. i just hope i can get lucky too and find someone that has sniffed Kevin Barlow's jock and get him to trade me a better player

Not true. Wins and losses are much more valuable then point totals. Just ask Kings of new york. He has what, 116 fantasy points over 2 weeks and is yet to register a victory. He has more fantasy points then indy, anthony and qballer, but is behind them in the standings becuase of the win/loss factor.

Wins/losses, point totals… whatever. Saying 2 weeks of results is an accurate way to measure things then to later on saying it’s not totally negates everything you've said. you can get technical or whatever but there’s no way around this.

Bad wording by me. I still dont think that my deal has been unfair. I dont know what it will take for you to realise that it wasnt (especially when you look at the production from mcnabb so far, and the lack of production by brown). But i spose when the criticism is comming from someone who doesnt believe trading mcardell for gore was unfair, there has to be some expected ignorance.

Lol now I’m ignorant because I don’t agree with you. Hehe of course the Gore deal would be unfair… if it was done AFTER week 1… lol I don’t expect you to change your mind on your own deal but i'm not going to call you names

I dont mind if you talk shit, thats what the feature is for. But if you start talking, dont get butthurt if someone starts jawing back. Thats all.\

Dude- You’re the one who’s butthurt. You ripped on my autodraft team, specifically Bush & Culpepper, who hadn't at that point played a game yet and then Culpepper again after week 1. In response, the Gordon’s Wallaces have played inspired, taking league high in points scored 2 weeks straight and are now sitting atop first place. All this with Daunte off to a slow start and with Bush (who would be a #2 rb for your team) on the bench

Now I’ve let you know about these events taking place and you go on and tell me it’s meaningless and have said anything since. Lol just take it.

Week 10 should be a good one. the bye weeks will be done with. see- if this discussion never took place.. it would just be another bump in the road

[Matthew]

Yeh sure you can bump up the value of certain players like Cotchery, Gore, and some others…. But still going on with your thinking- you would take Baltimore’s defense ahead everyone since they have the highest total for the first few weeks. trade Shaun Alexander & Larry Johnson, etc for Fred Taylor...Petyon Manning for Grossman … Antonio Gates, Tony G for Desmond Clark. and so on and so forth would be fair because Baltimore, Grossman, Clark have outperformed those other guys. But hey feel free to believe in the 2 week theory

But you see, and you have to admit this as well, Ronnie Brown (despite all the hype) is fairly unproven. Sure he had a nice rookie season, but it wasnt like he really established himself. As I said to Jugs before the trade, there is every chance he will exceed expectations, and theres no way i would have made the trade if i didnt think it would help my team. But you fail to realise is its helped jugs team mightily as well.

In the words of mr myagi- “you’re pretty ok yourself”…I didn’t make a post telling everyone to veto it or to have the trade reversed. I said from the start IMO it’s a vetoeable trade and have for the week or so gone on saying why. Obviously you don’t agree so I guess that make’s a whiner

No, disagreeing is fine. But to say i ripped off a rookie gm is whining.

He doesn’t have to scramble to find a player on the wire if he doesn’t make the trade … who won’t be better then Brown in the first place. In fact, he could have just picked up someone off the wire like Grossman, Pennington, or Smith and just drop someone like McNown/Curtis to improve his QB situation.

Once again, all in hindsight. McNabb is a much more stable qb then any of those listed. While I dont think he'll keep up his own 20 points a week outing, he is far more likely to get around 10-15 points a week then grossman or pennigton.

Ok cool. Regardless, you’re the one who has benefited the most from this trade/took the lesser risk. Forget about add/drops as anyone can do this. As mentioned, Jugs would be winning still without the trade and have a stronger roster, but your team got the RB it needed so badly. Imagine all those points by Mcnabb go to waste because you’d be starting Peyton every week and going ahead with Hernry, Benson, Carolina backfield to choose from for your starting RBs

I know anyone can make a good pickup via the wire, but I cant be held responsible for jugs starting curtis. It would be like if i had rivers starting at qb after the deal, jugs cant be accountable for that either.

As for the trade, I made my intentions with mcnabb clear as soon as i drafted him. If no one wanted him, i would have traded manning. Theres no way i'd have 2 studs at the qb position.

Yeah of course the trade has been one sided. But the shit you’re giving me is all AFTER THE FACT. Exactly what have you come up with during this entire debate as to why Gore/McCardell was a complete ripoff….BEFORE the season started?? NOTHING! Hehe if anything you should be crediting me for finding a diamond in the rough.

That's true, I didnt say much becuase I didnt mind (and still dont mind) the trade. However, as i said before the season started, it was a worse deal then mine, much much worse.

i'm not even going to bother with the Glenn-Colston trade. i just hope i can get lucky too and find someone that has sniffed Kevin Barlow's jock and get him to trade me a better player

hey, i told cwebb what i wanted for colston, a wr, he offered glenn, trade was made. simple.

Wins/losses, point totals… whatever. Saying 2 weeks of results is an accurate way to measure things then to later on saying it’s not totally negates everything you've said. you can get technical or whatever but there’s no way around this.

Different situations. 2 weeks of performance is a better way to analysise unproven players then expert opinions. 2 weeks of total points is meaningless at this stage when it comes to standings.

Lol now I’m ignorant because I don’t agree with you. Hehe of course the Gore deal would be unfair… if it was done AFTER week 1… lol I don’t expect you to change your mind on your own deal but i'm not going to call you names

No, you're not ignorant just becuase you disagree. You're ignorant becuase despite all the evident that points to a fair deal, and despite the fact that your trade was 100 times worse, you still point to abstract points (like other peoples opinions) as to why the deal was "unfair".

Dude- You’re the one who’s butthurt. You ripped on my autodraft team, specifically Bush & Culpepper, who hadn't at that point played a game yet and then Culpepper again after week 1. In response, the Gordon’s Wallaces have played inspired, taking league high in points scored 2 weeks straight and are now sitting atop first place. All this with Daunte off to a slow start and with Bush (who would be a #2 rb for your team) on the bench

I'm not butthurt, im loving this. But remember, you ripped on my team first, i just returned the favour. But tell me, if i was leading, you'd probably be saying "but you ripped off jugs for ronnie brown", yeah? Well, just remember I havent used the same line on you with frank gore.

Week 10 should be a good one. the bye weeks will be done with. see- if this discussion never took place.. it would just be another bump in the road Wink

I'm looking forward to the final more. It's like usc and texas last year.

[Matthew]

Whilst srbija is away, he asked me to make weekly changes to his lineup, just so everyone knows.

[air gordon]

maybe something else to talk about now...

German Beau Cats receives
Derrick Mason
LJ Smith
Alex Smith

Boiled Chicken N Egg receives
Chris Simms
Ben Troupe
Steve Smith

rip it apart/say you like it. here's your chance

i didn't do a salesjob- just the sent offer. you can disagree if you want but this is what i perceived:

Beau Cats needs an upgrade at QB (Simms) and TE (Troupe). His team looks set at WR so giving up Smith and his injured hamstrings is worth getting 2 starter worthy players.. possibly 3 since Mason is arguably better then Reggie Willams

as for my team.. this you may discount anyway since it's me making the trade lol: there's some risk invovled here giving up Alex Smith as Culpepper has been struggling out of the gate. Also finding productive TE's is tough and then there's the Smith hamstring injuries. the deal can be hit or miss

so fire away. yahoo says 2 day waiting period before this is processed

[Matthew]

lol relax, i think you're taking a huge risk on smith. With that large risk, theres a chance you get a high reward, becuase smith is the premier fantasy wr when healthy, so as you said its hit or miss. that being said, if it was just mason for smith i wouldnt be in favour (i still wouldnt vote against it though), but this trade has my blessing...

... that means if anyone votes against it, im going to lock your team out until you do 5000 calf raises, dweaver style baby .

[air gordon]

there have been disagreements in the past so i figured i'd put some kind explanation about the trade before all hell breaks loose... or 5000 commisioner induced calf raises... whichever comes first

Daunte has to do well vs the passer friendly Titans otherwise i'll have to start shopping Frank Gore for a better QB

[Matthew]

Those disagreements piggy backed this thread to 100+ posts

[air gordon]

lol sheesh maybe there is a such a thing as the madden jinx- Alexander is out for a few weeks

plus Clark and Gore are going through some injury problems of their own. i'm sure Matthew liked my most recent pickup

all stars only has 6pts heading into tonite's game

[Matthew]

Interesting 2nd half comming up for air gordon and jugs. Hey what would have been good is if you started bush. Bush and Duce on the same team in real life, but heat to head in the league. Ah what could of been.

Ah the madden curse strikes again. Maybe i could interest you in ronnie brown . Speaking of ronnie brown, its time once again for our weekly update on that deal

Ronnie Brown 4 fantasy points

Mcnabb 17

Your variable factor Warner: 3

And you said it wasnt a fair deal... hey if jugs gets a td from the atlanta defense or duce, that means me and him will be in first and second

[air gordon]

lol not this headache again...

i don't play the "what could have been".. i play the matchups. though it is nice to see Bush taking the carries away from Deuce at the goalline and also being in the situation of having 4 good Rb's to choose from. some team's are forced to go with Brown and Foster every week since his 3rd and 4th RB didn't even post a pt this week