Thibodeau Accepts Bulls' 3-Year Head Coach Offer

[Confusious]

True but the GM and Coach are gone and IMO just as to blame as the players for their failure the past 2 post seasons. I almost am 99% sure they're going to tell Lebron "what do we need to do to keep you here?" and you better believe they'll do it.

I'm aware of that, but just because Gibson treats him like a spoiled 16 year old brat, trying to constantly please him, doesn't mean he'll stay. It could play a factor, of course, but he keeps saying he wants to WIN. Not run a team and surround it with whatever he wants. But it's good the GM and coach are gone. They're finally learning. But it will take them several years just to establish a talented team that can SERIOUSLY compete.* Chicago is one of the most talented teams with cap space, and you better believe that Reinsdorf will start with that argument to convince James. I can see him going back and forth between teams, asking if they'll match this and that. Cleveland has the leg up only with dollars; something he really doesn't need (the endorsement deals, for starters) and the home turf thing, but nothing else. Cleveland can't match the promise that Chicago can build a dynasty around him IMMEDIATELY. Jamison is a good player, but the guy is 34. He will not compete for a dynasty.

*Seriously compete: meaning LeBron doesn't have to dominate the game single-handedly to win a game. Remember when he recorded 16 points in one of the Boston games? The fans and critics ripped him to SHREDS. He won't get that in Chicago. He doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win here. It'd be nice, but he can have an off night and still have a chance to win consistently.

You're disregarding he's from Ohio. He keeps talking about home and how thats his city. You'd be amazed how much that means to some people.

Everybody always says that. What's so wrong about returning home during the offseason, and showing everybody his fancy ring? People are disregarding that he is/was a die-hard Bulls fan growing up. So much of a fan, that the last known picture of him wearing a Bulls jersey of a Bulls bench-warmer player, Randy Brown. Not Jordan, Brown. Is that a casual fan to you? The only reason he won't share his love for the bulls now should be fairly obvious. He has called a team home for seven years now, but that can all change in July. Will it play a factor? If he's still a Bulls die-hard, you bet your ass it will.

Childhood dreams are just as important as home teams. The Cavs were the Bulls most hated enemy in the 90's, and can you guess who James sided with? The Bulls. I think this tilt is a LOT more even than people think.

[benji]

Chicago is one of the most talented teams with cap space, and you better believe that Reinsdorf will start with that argument to convince James ... Cleveland can't match the promise that Chicago can build a dynasty around him IMMEDIATELY.

He won't get that in Chicago. He doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win here. It'd be nice, but he can have an off night and still have a chance to win consistently.

Take your blinders off. The Bulls are nowhere near contention, let alone on the cusp of a dynasty. The Bulls have nowhere near the depth of the Cavaliers, Noah and Varejao is a wash, and the Bulls will be paying $11+ million to Luol Deng for the foreseeable future. Considering they're going to be maxing out Derrick Rose, LeBron would facing the same inflexible situation as he'd face in Cleveland for the next year or so. Only it'd be a longer term capped-out situation. Cleveland gets a mulligan in 2011. The Bulls will be capped out through just five players through 2011 and likely beyond.

There are only two teams where LeBron can compete immediately. Miami because he can combine with Wade and Amare/Bosh. And Dallas where he gets to play with Dirk, Butler, Haywood, Beaubois, and the last legs of Kidd and Terry.

The Cavs were the Bulls most hated enemy in the 90's

That is not really true.

[shadowgrin]

i'm sticking with the story of Thibs using NOH as leverage rather then the Bulls management being indecisive idiots

From the Bulls thread:

Some league executives don’t even believe Bulls general manager Gar Forman was sold on Thibodeau, but it doesn’t matter. Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf was.

So the delay was probably on the part of Forman (or/and Paxson). If Forman continues what he's doing, Reinsdorf might finally have enough and boot him out and the Bulls will have a new GM assuming Paxson isn''t placed back to that role.

[Andrew]

i'm sticking with the story of Thibs using NOH as leverage rather then the Bulls management being indecisive idiots

"A little from Column A, a little from Column B!"

[Sauru]

personally i would want to be a player who brings the team that drafted me to the championship not have to hitch on to another team for less money just to get one.

Cavaliers aren't winning shit with old guys like Shaq and Mo Williams.

Besides LBJ, that team has NOTHING going for them. Not a damn thing. I'd have to question a player that wants to win if he were to resign with them.

I don't think Lebron is going to lose sleep about losing out on a few million. You are aware of his endorsements, right? I also think he'd be interested in bringing BILLIONS of dollars to Chicago. That city is begging for a resurgence. Cleveland wouldn't be anything without him, and even with him they are choke artists.

you miss my point. my point is that i would want to be the building block to a championship not the icing on the cake

[Rip32]

The Knicks were the Bulls most hated enemy in the 90's.

Fixed...x2

[benji]

You're supposed to edit the quote and then say "Fixed."

And the Pacers weren't. 1998 Eastern Finals may have been a nice series, but it was the first time the Bulls and Pacers ever met in the playoffs.

The Knicks have to be it, if you're willing to step back a year to 1989 (since the Bulls stop contending after 1998) the Bulls and Knicks met six times in the playoffs from 1989-1996, with 1992 and 1994 going seven games, and 1989 and 1993 going six games.

[Rip32]

You're supposed to edit the quote and then say "Fixed."

And the Pacers weren't. 1998 Eastern Finals may have been a nice series, but it was the first time the Bulls and Pacers ever met in the playoffs.

The Knicks have to be it, if you're willing to step back a year to 1989 (since the Bulls stop contending after 1998) the Bulls and Knicks met six times in the playoffs from 1989-1996, with 1992 and 1994 going seven games, and 1989 and 1993 going six games.

Eh, that is the right way to do it, but I was going to say something snappy about his triumphant exclamation about LeBron loving teh Bulls. But then I was like nah I'm going to bed.

[NovU]

There are only two teams where LeBron can compete immediately. Miami because he can combine with Wade and Amare/Bosh. And Dallas where he gets to play with Dirk, Butler, Haywood, Beaubois, and the last legs of Kidd and Terry.

Idea of pairing Dirk and Bron sounds terrorizing to me. But Mavericks being old and Dirk being the franchise icon(likely to retire as career Mav) are going to play in Lebron's decision I think. Perhaps though, the Mavericks are likely to become an immediate contender I have to assume.

[benji]

LeBron's only signing for two or three years no matter where he goes anyway.

[air gordon]

So the delay was probably on the part of Forman (or/and Paxson). If Forman continues what he's doing, Reinsdorf might finally have enough and boot him out and the Bulls will have a new GM assuming Paxson isn''t placed back to that role.

IMO i always thought Forman was hired to be the face of/fall guy for Paxson. the media could just pile up on Forman while Paxson could operate behind the scenes. it was Paxson who assaulted Del Negro, not Forman. Why was Paxson even speaking at the Del Negro firing conference??!! Why was Paxson there w/Forman to interview Thibs? the organization may spin it different but i think it's pretty clear that Paxson is still the guy in charge.


Maybe Confusious means the bulls should be a contender if they acquire James? But I can’t speak for him lol

At the least, the bulls are an attractive team for a max contact player. the talent is young but experienced. They have good players at the 2 positions that are hardest to fill: point guard and center.

Are Noah and Varejao a wash? Noah has shown more potential as a better offensive player: a better post game, better at drawing fouls, and making free throws. he’s the better passer and is 3yrs younger then Varejao

Deng’s contract is bad but the chance remains they include him in a sign a trade (perhaps for Bosh?). he still is only 25 and is decently skilled. Not a complete albatross there

Winning the gold medal is one thing but does a player with the ego like James want to win the NBA championship playing with the likes of another great like Wade? Or does he want to win and be the clear alpha dog??

Should the wet dream come true of Bosh & James coming to town- not even Reinsdorf would complain about 3players (all under 30) on max contracts…

Who knows what’s going to happen. At least bulls can dream and cast doubts about other team’s chances of getting Lebron James

i def agree w the Knicks being the Bulls most hated enemy. there was a little something w/the Cavs but they never hired Pat Riley or had a John Starks

[Confusious]

^ Yes, that's what I meant. If The Bulls acquire James, they're a serious contender.

I also agree about the alpha dog thing. But isn't Rose our current alpha? I'd be interested to see how that goes. But I think they'd be the best of friends. James did say he loves Rose after the first round.

[Andrew]

I'd suggest Rose would be willing to defer to LeBron in terms of being "the star"/"face" of the team, while still getting his shots as they share the ball. I could see LeBron deferring to Rose in the clutch though, given his preference to be Magic Johnson rather than Michael Jordan (as I believe benji put it in the other thread) and Rose's willingness to take the big shots down the stretch. Of course, Rose's jumper needs to be a bit more reliable for him to be a consistent threat in those situations but the willingness seems to be there and that's important if LeBron does choose to defer in the clutch, as he did in the Celtics series.

[benji]

Are Noah and Varejao a wash? Noah has shown more potential as a better offensive player: a better post game, better at drawing fouls, and making free throws. he’s the better passer and is 3yrs younger then Varejao

I was talking about right now. In five years Noah's going to be significantly better, but the next two years?

Deng’s contract is bad but the chance remains they include him in a sign a trade (perhaps for Bosh?).

And bring back Turkoglu?

If The Bulls acquire James, they're a serious contender.

Well, Cleveland was a serious contender this year and without LeBron people are thinking they'll be worse than the Pistons so that's saying more about LeBron than it says about the Bulls.

[air gordon]

yeh i agree Rose is the alpha dog but it's safe to assume he'll hand the title over to the King. i'll worry about the clutch thing if #6 signs. no, not trent tucker...

benji. yes if we're going off of Noah when his shoulder is not injured + some playoff games. and consider Noah's stats are w/o Lebron and noah played for del negro's/chicago's offense

there's a good chance Toronto will not have the leverage to force Hedo on teams when they're trying to get something in return for the imminent departure of Bosh

[benji]

I know I've said that many times, but why would they want back a contract as bad or worse than the ones they're already trying to force onto other teams? Especially for a position they already have one overpaid average player at and a young player they want to develop. (And double especially when they're going to be offered Andrew Bynum.)

yes if we're going off of Noah when his shoulder is not injured + some playoff games.

I am, and they're a wash currently. Noah rebounds better and shoots more, but Varejao only shoots when has to, never turns it over when he does (making him very efficient) and doesn't use possessions. Will that switch if LeBron does? Perhaps, but that'd make it...yes, a wash.

But that just reinforces my point. Noah has been the Bulls best player. Varejao has been the Cavs best player after LeBron. It's not like the Bulls are swarming with superstar talent needing just one more piece to put them over the top. Swapping over to the Bulls merely puts him in a worse situation in terms of contending both immediately and long term.

This is without any other draft picks or free agents, with Rose being maxed out, and Noah getting a contract comparable to other players who have averaged 11/11.

Player	2010-11	2011-12	2012-13
LeBron	$17.4	$19.3	$21.1
Deng	11.4	12.3	13.3
Rose	5.6	7.0	13.6
Noah	3.1	9.5	10.5
Hinrich	9.0	8.0	n/a
Johnson	1.7	1.8	2.8
Gibson	1.1	1.2	2.2
Total	$49.3	$59.1	$63.5
Below $58	+8.7	-1.1	-5.5

I don't see how they move Hinrich (this offseason) and Deng (ever) to get farther under. Winning a title with the MLE isn't the easiest thing.

By comparison, the Cavaliers get to the salary cap even if they keep LeBron next offseason while having Jamison's expiring contract to dangle all season. The year after that they get under the cap and by 2013 (when LeBron is up to decide whether to bolt again or not) have only Varejao's contract on the books

[air gordon]

Because Colangelo will please Bosh in hopes of keeping their rep as a “loyal” franchise? IF not Deng, then “kurt” hinrich. Toronto will easily be in rebuilding mode- they’d be more willing to take on a contract that expires the same time as Jamison’s. Bynum will discover he has a degenerate knee disease aft er the finals. Plus World Wide Wes will make it happen

Noah should be a better player w/James. He’s already more skilled then Varejao. He’s less efficient now (and should improve) but you’ll take that since he’ll make it harder for defenses to crowd James/Rose. Agree to disagree lol

The current Cavs situation:
No GM. No Coach. No high draft picks… valuable trade assets… cap room…talented young players….

[benji]

Because Colangelo will please Bosh in hopes of keeping their rep as a “loyal” franchise?

So he'll take on a bad contract instead of taking back a couple picks?

IF not Deng, then “kurt” hinrich. Toronto will easily be in rebuilding mode- they’d be more willing to take on a contract that expires the same time as Jamison’s.

If they're rebuilding (and I question this as it implies they were ever really "built") then why would they want Hinrich anyway? They're already paying Calderon and Jack for the next three years, Banks for next season and Bellini for another two. If you're "rebuilding" you try to move Calderon's contract and take back picks instead of adding more salary for no reason.

Noah should be a better player w/James. He’s already more skilled then Varejao. He’s less efficient now (and should improve) but you’ll take that since he’ll make it harder for defenses to crowd James/Rose. Agree to disagree lol

I don't see where we were disagreeing other than on the total impact to the teams.

No GM. No Coach.

I'd think LeBron wants to pick these.

No high draft picks

That's what you get for winning 60 games instead of 40.

valuable trade assets

Well, the Bulls do have Noah to trade, but I doubt they would want to.

cap room

Already discussed this. Cavaliers get a mulligan starting in 2011, Bulls won't get one until 2013.

talented young players

They do have Hickson, but I was assuming LeBron wants to win now, not when he leaves for another team in 2013. (Which will happen if he stays in Cleveland or if he leaves for the Bulls.)

LeBron returns to the Cavaliers: 50-60 wins, probably no title but opportunity to rebuild starting in 2011.
LeBron goes to the Bulls: 50-55 wins, probably no title but stuck with the same core until 2013.

If he wants to win titles now, he won't pick either team. If he stays in Cleveland it's out of loyalty and being close to home. If he goes to Chicago it's because he wants to go there.

[Lamrock]

C'mon LeBron, put your Mavericks jersey on...

[Valor]

C'mon LeBron, put your Clippers jersey on...and start rotting

Fixed

The Bulls raped the Cavs in the 90's.

Fixed also

[NovU]

I'm convinced that Mavericks would be a good place for Lebron, but realistically I still don't see it happening as Dirk is the MAN there no matter what. I don't hear Cuban expressing much hopes either, rather he'd be focused to re-sign Dirk I guess. If Lebron ends up at any other places, he's likely to get the control and remain the king on the team as he has been with the Cavaliers, but I doubt that being the case in Dallas for Lebron.

LeBron returns to the Cavaliers: 50-60 wins, probably no title but opportunity to rebuild starting in 2011.
LeBron goes to the Bulls: 50-55 wins, probably no title but stuck with the same core until 2013.

If he wants to win titles now, he won't pick either team. If he stays in Cleveland it's out of loyalty and being close to home. If he goes to Chicago it's because he wants to go there.

Very much likely, benji, though I do believe either way, they'll become a serious contender due to being in the East.

With aging Boston(probably changes are to come with free agents too), and Orlando no more being the team to beat(for now again), I wouldn't be totally surprised to see Lebron actually believing that he could lead these teams to the finals, and perhaps possible, seeing how lessor Cavs got there a few years ago. This sorta makes me think, since only one of these teams are going to turn out a winner, the teams should chase other free agents to beat the rush, possibly giving them more rooms to work with freeagents like Bosh or Amare. Especially with Lebron enjoying all this theatrical moments, I don't think his decision will be publicly made untill very late. And I have a feeling the other freeagents are willing to wait so they can get overpaid by those who failed. Now I am hoping for the Heat to chase hard on other big names early instead of playing a Lebron's game. Perhaps that's why Wade wants to meet up with big names before the freeagents bonanza begins to decide what he wants to or to tip the Heat what direction they should head.

[air gordon]

Sorry late response. Blackhawks 2010 stanley cup champs!

So.. yeh I agree Toronto is an unlikely destination. There are still options out there. Teams with cap space could be used to get Deng out of Chicago. Washington, LAC, t’wolves, etc. .. even a S &t for a Lebron or Amare for kicks lol

This Cavs core has plateaued and they won’t improve because of lack of tradeable assets and decent draft picks (yes because of their strong record, thank u). yes hickson is ok. They could win 55-60 games and still could choke again. So Lebron wants to give up a few years of his career so he can have his mulligan later.

I’m not claiming the Bulls are a finals champion should they sign LBJ…At the least a contender in the EAST. we've seen the best of what Mo Williams, Varejao, etc can do with a player like James. the closest the bulls have had to a player to be consistently double teamed/garner a lot of defensive attention was Eddy Curry (lol). Hinrich, Deng, even Rose would finally go back to their natural spot in the pecking order. i mean c'mon... if some dude with a nickname like Boobie can get a 5yr/$24mil contract after making a few 3pters.. imagine what the current Bulls roster can do with James

should they find a way to dump Deng or Hinrich (along with a bunch of draft picks), allowing them to sign another stud FA, they should be in contender status

IMO LBJ's not going to the West. too many good teams to beat just to get to the finals.. even if Dallas will choke again . he’ll stay in the EAST. Cleveland, Miami, NYk, Chicago, and I guess the Nets too are his likely destinations

FA summits happen all the time but for some reason, Dwayne Wade had to announce they are doing it publicly lol.. but these have backfired like Brand sticking it to Baron Davis and signing with Philly

[NovU]

If it wasn't for the retardedly physically abusive Blackhawks, the Canucks would've been the champ. Not gonna say you guys deserve it but congtrats nonetheless...

FA summits happen all the time but for some reason, Dwayne Wade had to announce they are doing it publicly lol.. but these have backfired like Brand sticking it to Baron Davis and signing with Philly

Haha. I wouldn't say what Wade said or did were all that bad or backfired, as he only made his intention to stay in Miami a little bit more clear, that which will help other free agents in making their decisions. What he said might have offended the Bulls, but I don't think that was intentional.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 2246.story

Thouh he is refusing, we know somebody big will come to play with him.

[air gordon]

dude are you seriously still defending Wade's comments regarding the bulls? you're completely delusional. for crying out loud, you really thought the canucks had a chance... that the hawks are a physical team. abusing cab drivers is another story

i know you're counting- 2 yrs in a row we've taken you guys out. and the Sedins have never made it out of the 2nd round. heck when's the last time a Canadian team won the cup?

[shadowgrin]

when's the last time a Canadian team won the cup?

Bada-zing.