The New Cavalier Curse

[benji]

& Benji my God wat the hell is all this.

Good job quoting all of it but reading none of it.

But stats are not always the direction to go when proving a point. Example Vince Carter is a great passer but no one can tell bc of his assists average.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

[atlwarrior]

No Benji I appreciate you pulling out all of those facts. I didnt even know half of that stuff. I mean stats are helpful to a certain extent. I honestly hope I didnt offend you. you said that Lebron is not Rip but Kobe and Carmelo move without the ball also. Its all about knowing where to position your star players. I dont mind lebron putting the ball on the floor but there needs to be more passing and movement by the Cavs.

[Oznogrd]

what the hell that is? an objective way to prove that you're making shit up and didnt think things out at all.. At this point, benji is

He addressed everything you brought up and proved you wrong. Stats matter, like it or not.

and the only thing i have left really is


"you make me sad, Come Patsy"

[atlwarrior]

what the hell that is? an objective way to prove that you're making shit up and didnt think things out at all.. At this point, benji is

He addressed everything you brought up and proved you wrong. Stats matter, like it or not.

and the only thing i have left really is


"you make me sad, Come Patsy"

funny youre a comedian
As far as im concerned they are good to know and yes determine how good players are but you dont visually know how that player plays bc they are still numbers. That is why NBA teams watch footage before they play the other team. now you can put insert your

[Oznogrd]

You obviously dont know how filmwork operates. You watch film in order to see tendencies (be it playcalling, type of shot, type of D, or situationals). How do you tell whats a high tendency? those high percentage occurences. Whats a percentage? A stat.

Do you think NBA players sit around in the film room watching the cavs and go "well keep lebron out of the lane cuz it looks like he's good in there?" no. They have how many times he drives, how often he keeps it, how often he kicks it to a big man, how often he kicks it out. It's all statistics. Its the only way to gauge anything in order to discuss or strategize in any reasonable way shape or form.


Great part about that? I dont have feet so your attempt at comedy falls short, just like your assumption of a curse of inefficient, injured, or past their prime players.

[benji]

And that's why you had so many mis-perceptions about the talent levels and actually quality of play and status of these players.

As far as im concerned they are good to know and yes determine how good players are but you dont visually know how that player plays bc they are still numbers. That is why NBA teams watch footage before they play the other team.

And all those numbers come from what the players actually do on the court and you can be wrong with your perceptions because it's just your subjective viewing of events. That is why NBA teams spend millions to track gobs of stats and finding new methods to interpret the data before they start the season, sign players, or face opposing teams.

[atlwarrior]

You obviously dont know how filmwork operates. You watch film in order to see tendencies (be it playcalling, type of shot, type of D, or situationals). How do you tell whats a high tendency? those high percentage occurences. Whats a percentage? A stat.

Do you think NBA players sit around in the film room watching the cavs and go "well keep lebron out of the lane cuz it looks like he's good in there?" no. They have how many times he drives, how often he keeps it, how often he kicks it to a big man, how often he kicks it out. It's all statistics. Its the only way to gauge anything in order to discuss or strategize in any reasonable way shape or form.


Great part about that? I dont have feet so your attempt at comedy falls short, just like your assumption of a curse of inefficient, injured, or past their prime players.

I dont mean its a curse literally. Its called catching the reader's attention. Do stats tell when Lebron does his crab dribble??? no. Or what combination of crossovers Wade use to get to the rack? no. Trust me you also have to no little things like this to defend players like this. To know these thing you have to

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[benji]

Does how LeBron does his "crab dribble" matter?

[atlwarrior]

Does how LeBron does his "crab dribble" matter?

sorry I meant when not how? I corrected it above. And guys im sorry it came to all of this so im going to end it right here.

[Oznogrd]

You obviously dont know how filmwork operates. You watch film in order to see tendencies (be it playcalling, type of shot, type of D, or situationals). How do you tell whats a high tendency? those high percentage occurences. Whats a percentage? A stat.

Do you think NBA players sit around in the film room watching the cavs and go "well keep lebron out of the lane cuz it looks like he's good in there?" no. They have how many times he drives, how often he keeps it, how often he kicks it to a big man, how often he kicks it out. It's all statistics. Its the only way to gauge anything in order to discuss or strategize in any reasonable way shape or form.


Great part about that? I dont have feet so your attempt at comedy falls short, just like your assumption of a curse of inefficient, injured, or past their prime players.

I dont mean its a curse literally. Its called catching the reader's attention. Do stats tell when Lebron does his crab dribble??? no. Or what combination of crossovers Wade use to get to the rack? no. Trust me you also have to no little things like this to defend players like this. To know these thing you have to

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Right but to know his combo of crossovers, you have to watch and quantify them. Ok "he does a behind the back into a between the legs into a spin 50% of the time, watch for that" its all stats whether you like it or not. Otherwise Defensive plans would be "uh...get the ball"

[atlwarrior]

Does how LeBron does his "crab dribble" matter?

sorry I meant when not how? I corrected it above. And guys im sorry it came to all of this so im going to end it right here.

Like i said above im ending it right here. This could go on forever.

[benji]

But we don't have to defend players. We have to discuss and evaluate them. What matters is their production, not irrelevant details of how they get to that production.

Having information on the so-called "crab dribble" or Wade's crossovers without any stats (or only per game numbers) = meaningless.
Having full stats without information on dribbles and crossovers = gobs of valuable information.

EDIT: Oh, I see you're one of the many terrible forum people. Who come in yelling a bunch of opinions, then when people actually want to discuss things you whine and demand it ends.

[atlwarrior]

Im sorry but i have to respond to this. So youre saying that im terrible bc my opinion is different than yours. Thats life. People will always have their own opinions. I dont care if your opinion or somebody elses was different but im still going to give you my honest opinion bc i have that right. I saw things were getting out of hand so i just ended it. I dont argue with people especially on forums. Thank you.

[J@3]

No he's saying you're terrible because when someone challenges your opinion you freak out and say you don't want to discuss it anymore.

[Oznogrd]

who was arguing? it was discussion.

Why come to a forum if not to discuss?

[atlwarrior]

No he's saying you're terrible because when someone challenges your opinion you freak out and say you don't want to discuss it anymore.

Nah i was done done bc simply bcuz i didnt wanna discuss it anymore and Im watching the Magic and Hornets game. But if you want me to con't... although 82games could help a lot, things like leadership, communication, help-defense, spacing, hustle, setting picks, versatility, court vision, boxing out, defensive disruption, and mental toughness are all examples of things that can't be necessarily be measured but need to be viewed to see someone's effectiveness. Now a days I think we're too much of a stat driven society.

[Kenny]

No he's saying you're terrible because when someone challenges your opinion you freak out and say you don't want to discuss it anymore.

Nah i was done done bc simply bcuz i didnt wanna discuss it anymore and Im watching the Magic and Hornets game. But if you want me to con't... although 82games could help a lot, things like leadership, communication, help-defense, spacing, hustle, setting picks, versatility, court vision, boxing out, defensive disruption, and mental toughness are all examples of things that can't be necessarily be measured but need to be viewed to see someone's effectiveness. Now a days I think we're too much of a stat driven society.

I can somewhat agree with that... but you're flogging a dead horse with that argument. I don't mind your opinion and you have a right to post it, but don't expect us to agree with it 100%

[atlwarrior]

No he's saying you're terrible because when someone challenges your opinion you freak out and say you don't want to discuss it anymore.

Nah i was done done bc simply bcuz i didnt wanna discuss it anymore and Im watching the Magic and Hornets game. But if you want me to con't... although 82games could help a lot, things like leadership, communication, help-defense, spacing, hustle, setting picks, versatility, court vision, boxing out, defensive disruption, and mental toughness are all examples of things that can't be necessarily be measured but need to be viewed to see someone's effectiveness. Now a days I think we're too much of a stat driven society.

I can somewhat agree with that... but you're flogging a dead horse with that argument. I don't mind your opinion and you have a right to post it, but don't expect us to agree with it 100%

i never expected any of you to agree with me. To be honest I already knew a lot would disagree b4 i posted the topic. I just wanted others to hear my views on things and nothin else.

[Oznogrd]

thats what a blog is for, not a forum.

Pick setting can be quantified, as can boxing out and help defense.

Sure some of the other things play a part but when a player has stellar performances night in and night its usually understood that they have all those other qualities.

[atlwarrior]

thats what a blog is for, not a forum.

Pick setting can be quantified, as can boxing out and help defense.

Sure some of the other things play a part but when a player has stellar performances night in and night its usually understood that they have all those other qualities.

A stellar performance night in and night out cannot measure how much of a leader a player is nor how much they communicate. A player can have all the stellar performances he wants statwise but if he/she is not getting their team victories than it means nothing. Trust me if you watch basketball more or even play it you will know these things. . You think any hs, college, nba ,wnba player cares about their stats or anybody elses... no. They just go out there and do whatever it takes to get a victory. If theyre playing 4 stats theyre not out there for the right reason. A lot of people know its hard to keep Lebron from dropping 30 pts but if Lebron didnt get the victory then the other team did their job. note:Im not assuming you dont watch or play basketball oznogrd

[Kenny]

Trust me if you watch basketball more or even play it you will know these things. note:Im not assuming you dont watch or play basketball oznogrd.

Oh man, you're on your own dude

[Oznogrd]

thats what a blog is for, not a forum.

Pick setting can be quantified, as can boxing out and help defense.

Sure some of the other things play a part but when a player has stellar performances night in and night its usually understood that they have all those other qualities.

A stellar performance night in and night out cannot measure how much of a leader a player is nor how much they communicate. A player can have all the stellar performances he wants statwise but if he/she is not getting their team victories than it means nothing. Trust me if you watch basketball more or even play it you will know these things. . You think any hs, college, nba ,wnba player cares about their stats or anybody elses... no. They just go out there and do whatever it takes to get a victory. If theyre playing 4 stats theyre not out there for the right reason.

Constant stellar performances usually result in a player becoming a defacto leader whether they like it or not. With that comes responsibilities much like a captain (be it official or not) may end up with: including running the Offense or communicating with the coach. It may not be the best decision in the world and it may not last long, but it does happen.

Its only indirectly about stats anymore in the pros. Its about money. How do you justify that money? Stats. Being able to say im the best in the league at <insert badass thing you can do no one else can here>: now give me 15 million a year! Or teams "look we have the most fast breaks in the league, buy our tickets and come to our games so i dont have to sell to a russian billionaire!"

as for non pro players I Played ball for 11 years. Even in some international competitions. No we didn't play for stats but a nice statistical game out of our stars usually resulted in a victory. When our stars played like shit..so did the rest of us. Thats not a coincidence. That being said though: You'd be surprised how many players are assholes and are all about "me and my stats". Lost respect for a few people i played with over those things.

I do finally agree with you: anyone who plays that way should get the fuck off the court but that doesnt mean they dont exist.

[atlwarrior]

I do finally agree with you: anyone who plays that way should get the fuck off the court but that doesnt mean they dont exist

Yeah unfortunately they do exists. I seemed to always have those on my team. I played basketball in hs and was pretty damn good but leaned more towards the sport boxing.

[benji]

A stellar performance night in and night out cannot measure how much of a leader a player is nor how much they communicate.

Prove there's a better leader in the NBA than LeBron James.

A player can have all the stellar performances he wants statwise but if he/she is not getting their team victories than it means nothing.

Yes, of course, there could never be a situation in which one player plays fantastically and the rest of the team plays so horribly the team loses. And if it did happen, the only player to play well should be blamed. Always.

You think any hs, college, nba ,wnba player cares about their stats or anybody elses... no. They just go out there and do whatever it takes to get a victory.

[citation needed]

things like leadership, communication, help-defense, spacing, hustle, setting picks, versatility, court vision, boxing out, defensive disruption, and mental toughness are all examples of things that can't be necessarily be measured but need to be viewed to see someone's effectiveness. Now a days I think we're too much of a stat driven society.

How can you view someones leadership and mental toughness?

And how can none of those things be measured? In-fact, the instant you "view" it you'll be measuring it. Your problem will be having any measure that could be shared with others EXCEPT your opinion.

You could say, for example, LeBron has none of them, and I could say LeBron has all of them and has all of them better than any person in human history.

Or we could deal with tangible things that measure reality and we know actually matter in winning games.

[J@3]

You think any hs, college, nba ,wnba player cares about their stats or anybody elses... no. They just go out there and do whatever it takes to get a victory.

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